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6.0L Performance Parts Discussion What has or has not worked for you?

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Old 08-02-2012, 08:47 PM
BACKYARDIGAN


 

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600hp Truck Build Summary

Purpose:
Well the purpose of this thread is kind of link all of the work I have done so far to my truck over the last year and update how each portion is holding up/performing so far. Next to each mod title I have posted the link(s) to the corresponding thread I started about that mod for further in depth discussion and information.

Well at this time last year my truck was in my garage all torn down so I could install head studs, fully rebuilt cylinder heads, and redo my oil cooling system. I also ended up getting rid of my AFE air intake and switching over to the S&B as well as buying a new intake manifold. Lastly I got my first custom tune. It was Chris’s Super Panty Dropper w/early lock up. I was able to put everything back together and get the truck back up and running (even after spending two weeks fishing out a bolt I dropped into the motor while installing a new HPOP). At this time the odometer read 88.5K. Little did I know of what journey I was about to embark on.

OIL COOLER: Oil Cooler Delete
Back in the fall of 2010, I tore into my motor for the first time and installed an EGR delete, Spearco Intercooler, Strictly Diesel RR kit, as well as my own oil cooling system. This system incorporated the BPD oil transfer block, a B&M tranny cooler with fan, and Amsoil full flow with built in bypass oil filtration system. I thought I could build an oil cooling system cheaper than the BPD kit. Boy was I WRONG. Both the cooler and filter units were mounted on the passenger frame rail and overall the system worked well but it definitely had its short comings. Whenever the outside temperature dropped to around 40F the oil had a tough time flowing and it would take a few seconds for the motor to build up enough oil pressure to get the dash gauge to read normal after starting. I did tow about 11k pounds in a 24ft enclosed trailer when I moved from Virginia to Tennessee with this configuration and it did a decent job cooling the oil but it was early spring of 2011 when I moved so the outside air temp was only about 60-70F and my oil temps stayed in the 220F range (monitored by an Autometer Oil Temp gauge at the filter housing). I also had no idea what actual oil pressure was or what the pressure drop across the system was.

So when I did my motor work in the summer of 2011, I decided that I didn’t like the system and thought it was time to revise it. I didn’t like how I would get the low oil pressure warning in cold weather and the fact that it hung down and could possibly get ripped off if/when I went off road. I decided that moving the cooler to behind the grill would eliminate the need for a separate fan; and without the fan, I could fit a bigger oil cooler, thus giving me all of the cooling I would ever need. I decided to buy a fluidyne dual pass oil cooler and mounted it behind the grill as well as relocating the filter assembly to inside the engine bay (coming off the alternator), and adding a 215F Canton Racing Oil thermostat. At this time I posted my oil cooling build thread; and through doing this, I learned from BPD that I hadn’t taken the pressure drop across my system into account.

So to ensure I wasn’t starving my engine for oil, I put on two oil pressure gauges (one at the outlet of the motor and one at the inlet) so I could see how much pressure I was dropping. Well come to find out, my oil pressure was WAY out of spec, so I just decided to give up and get the rest of the BPD oil cooling kit (the oil cooler and filter) to add to the oil transfer block that I already. I also knew I didn’t want to give up my oil thermostat yet either so I decided to keep that and see if my pressure drop had improved. Well sure enough by switching over to the BPD kit, I was almost within factory spec. I haven’t tried switching out the thermostat yet and am not really sure I need to as the lowest oil pressure I have seen so far is still over 48psi with oil temp at 210F and outside air temp being as high as 106F and driving for 12hrs.

TURBO: Review of MADPOWERSTROKE Turbos, MTW Stage 2 (GT4088) with 190/100s, MTW Stage 3 Prototype/FedEx Forklift Hacky Sack Turbo Review
Up until the February/March timeframe I was running my stock turbo and I think mostly everyone here knows that I ran into Adrian polling people about what size turbos they would be interested in seeing brought to the 6.0 arena. I ended up taking the hour drive down to see Adrian and little did I know what madness lay in store for the 6.0 world. Well Adrian was kind enough to swap me out my stock turbo for his first Stage 1 turbo (formerly known as the “Durastroke” ) that he had ever built so I could test it for him and let folks on here know what he was up to. I tried everything I could do to get that thing to stall and show some dead spot but there wasn’t any to be found and I just kept running it with my tunes I had written for the stock turbo.

After going to the TS event with Adrian and watching Bill run his truck with the Stage 2, I knew I had to put a bigger turbo on my truck for the Wildman charity event that Adrian and I were going to attend a month later so I stepped up to a Stage 2. I couldn’t afford a Stage 3 at the time and I wanted to see what sort of improvement could be had with the Stage 2 and if it could handle my 190/100s. Well Adrian and I went to PHP and the day we were gonna leave he received the Stage 3 prototype back from JJ and was able to get it fixed for the dyno event. At the dyno event we decided it was either “go big or go home” time so we just put the Stage 3 on the truck and ran it. Well the rest as they say is history.

INJECTORS: Renegade Diesel's 190cc w/100% nozzles Injector Review
At the same time, I was first checking out Adrian’s turbos, I also decided to go with a nobody in the injector building business and have him build me a set of 190/100 injectors. Sheldon was kind enough to send me a loaner set of his injectors that were freshly built so I could see and report my impressions of the injectors of how well they ran and how they held up. So far I have almost 5k miles on them and they idle and run as good as the day I put them in and they flow so much fuel that I end up giving Adrian’s Stage 3 a run for its money. I simply can’t say enough good things about these injectors. I have about 800 more miles and I am going to need to change my oil. At this time, Sheldon is going to send my injectors that I sent to him back to me (fully built of course), I will return his injectors, and that is what I will keep in my truck for the foreseeable future. I have every bit of confidence that these injectors will run just as good and as long as I keep running the oil I am right now and add the AR9100 oil additive. I will update this thread when I get the next set and post up how they do.

FUEL SYSTEM: Deleted My Fuel Bowl Today, AD150 Review, Aeromotive A1000 Install and Review, XDP Fuel Sump Install Review
When I decided that I was going to run larger injectors, I figured that my fuel system was also going to need to be upgraded as well. I did A LOT of research and it appeared that for the money, the AD150 was going to be the most cost effective route for me. I really liked how the Air Dog removed the entrained air from the fuel and it made my truck idle almost common rail quiet and smooth. Nevertheless, after my dyno debut at PHP, it became apparent to me that my stock pump was JUST getting by so I decided to step up to an Aeromotive A1000 and get rid of the remaining factory fuel lines except for the factory return line that connected to the OEM pump return and tank return ports. I also was not sure really what the best route was for wiring this pump up so I just decided to drop the coin and get the Aeromotive Billet Speed Controller to allow the pump to be ran at a lower output in the lower rpm range and increase output as the speed of the engine goes up as well. Lastly I installed an XDP fuel sump so I wouldn’t have to worry about the tank issues associated with the draw straw that came with the AD150.

Hopefully this will allow the pump to live a long and healthy life. I fabricated a bracket from aluminum plate, stainless steel hardware, and rubber grommets that allows me to run the A1000 in the factory pump location. So far I have done a two 770 mile one day road trips as well as driving the truck back and forth to work almost every day, accumulating to about 2500 miles, and everything is running GREAT. I am most impressed so far. I think I will pick up either a spare A1000 or a Fuelab Prodigy pump (before I go on another road trip) just in case something decides to sh!t the bed. I would rather have the pump and not need it than not have it and need it. I know it is expensive but unfortunately I really just don’t see any other option.

CURRENT STATUS:
Since I have went to PHP and dyno’d my truck with the Stage 3, I have been in search of the right tune and have worked with three tuners via email to see if it was possible to dial this thing in (to "tie me over" until some live tuning can be done).

Of all that have tried so far, Tony Wildman is the only one that has been able to send me a file that spools this turbo as fast as the stock turbo. As Adrian mentioned, the throttle response is insane. When I am testing tunes, I use the same 30 mile stretch of road that I take to and from work and I use my CTS to monitor Accelerator Pedal position so I can compare how deep I have to get into the throttle to get the truck to respond. With this tune and only 4% throttle, the truck actually starts to move and accelerate. With 12% throttle, I am at 5psi of boost and am accelerating about as fast as normal traffic and with 17-20% throttle, I have about 9-10psi of boost and am rocketing along nicely and am able to get up to 70mph on a normal on ramp to the express way.

While cruising at 70mph and hammering down, the boost comes on instantly and in what feels like two seconds, you are cruising at 90+ mph. Smoke is a grey haze and the power is just short of breath taking. With normal cruising at 70-75 mph on flat ground and outside air temps as high as 105F, the EGTs average about 775F.

So far the only downsides I have noticed with this tune is the tranny shifting is really set up for a non-VGT turbo as it waits until the truck is over 65mph (so the turbo is fully lit) before locking the torque converter (something that is easily fixable and I have a revision coming) and at super light throttle (i.e. ~4%) the truck gets confused and kind of lopes a little while driving (this is also fairly easily fixable by just using either more pedal or no pedal). The true beauty of this tune though is that the truck only requires the weight of your foot to be able to take off like a raped ape; and in case you think he places all of the power at the beginning of the pedal, I can assure you that the truck continues to pull and fuel throughout the whole range of pedal motion.

It would be REALLY interesting to see the power curves of this tune on a dyno as I am sure there is WAY more low end power to get things going. I also am able to still get about 15-16mpg with mixed driving and high way speeds always over 70mph and holding that speed up hills. I don’t know what Tony does that is different but I do know that I have tried several revisions of his tunes to try and make the pedal ever so slightly less sensitive and each attempt results in the same running tunes that I already have and the buildup of boost just isn’t linear with throttle position and all that happens is the truck over fuels and EGTs climb faster than boost builds to mitigate the rise in EGTs.

4 August 2012

Tony sent me his 5th revision of his original file (6th tune) and it seems like I now have the most streetable email tune that I have tried with this setup. I am going to run it for a week and I'll update again to let everyone know how it's doing; but so far everything is looking good. It allows the power to come on at just the right amounts with the current pedal mapping. Ok more to follow...

9 August 2012

Ok well I think I am at the end of the capabilities of the Tony Wildman tunes. The 6th tune was a good tune. It did blend the throttle pretty well so it wasnt uncontrollably touchy but all of these tunes kind of lacked overall in the upper/high mid RPM range power. Dont get me the wrong, the tunes spooled the turbo like it was a little b!tch but the truck just didnt pull like the low end did so I dont know what was up with it. I also tried Tony's more xtreme version of this tune and it did better but still didnt really pull like my other ones do and the xtreme version needs some more tweaking on the shift pressures to firm up the shifts to my liking.

I had two tunes from Vivian that hadnt been tested yet so I loaded up one to see what it had and surprisingly, it was REALLY good. The low end response wasnt quite like the Wildman tunes were but with 1/4 throttle, I still had very close to the same acceleration and EGTs. While the Wildman tunes had slightly more than linear turbo response in comparison to throttle position, this tune from Vivian was slightly less than linear; but at 29-30% throttle, the boost level fell right in where it should be and the truck was pulling just like the Wildman tunes at that level of boost. The only downside to this version is the tranny shifting to early into OD at 45-50mph. It would be nice if this tune shifted into OD at 55mph instead. I have another revision that I will be trying tomorrow so we will see how that goes. Overall I like the way the truck runs with this tune. The application of power is much more controllable with this tune and the truck just seems to run much smoother. Ok well that's all for now. Stay tuned...

27 August 2012
I know it's been a while since I updated this but there is FINALLY a development in the tuning of the MTW Stage 3 turbo. Eric @ IDP live tuned Briar's 04 CCSB 6.0 w/RCD 190/100s, stock manifolds, IDP Mild FICM Tune, and MTW Stage 3 turbo. His tune was based on the VXCF9xx strategy and he put down 623hp on IDP's dyno and ran a 12.5sec @106mph 1/4 mile time. Well I got a hold of Eric (via email) about two weeks ago and I asked him if I could get that tune to try with my truck. He ended up sending me the file tailored to the VXCF4xx strategy and made for my SCT serial number. Well it took me until now to get the tune loaded up and actually drive the truck on my normal route to work. All I can say right now is that this tune actually feels like it was made for my truck. Shifting is spot on. Boost comes up just like the stock turbo did and cruising EGTs are down about 30F below my BEST email tune so far. At 70-75mph, EGTs are 720-750mph with OAT at 83F where it use to be 750-780F at that same temperature. I'll see what the EGTs are this afternoon when I go home and the OAT is 93+F but as of right now this thing completely BLOWS AWAY any other tune for driveability and EGT control. EGTs still seemed to get up to 900+F on some hills but the rise in EGTs was MUCH MORE controllable with this tune. I truly believe that a tow tune written on this tune's "turbo control" parameters should be a monster. I'll update this post again this evening after I drive home and again after I drive this tune for the tank of fuel in my truck to get a true solid evaluation and make sure everything holds to what I am seeing. So as always, stay tuned...

AFTERNOON
Ok so I drove the truck home from work today (~30 miles) (same route I always take) and the best word to describe the feeling of the truck right now is balanced. It honestly feels like this tune was written for this exact truck (well it was pretty much a live tune that was emailed to me). The truck just feels amazingly smooth and the power build up with increasing pedal is awesome. I can honestly do everything I need to with about 25% throttle and where, with the Wildman tune, all of the power was slammed up front and not much was left to be had with more pedal; this tune just keeps making more and more power as I give it more and more throttle. The closest tune that I have to this one is Vivian's Loony Wild that she made for me. It is a nice running tune but it lacks the match up of turbo to fuel and pedal that this live based tune has given me. Also this tune has firmer transmission shifts and it REALLY seems to like the IDP FICM tuning. The bottomline is that this is the tune needed to unleash the BEAST inside the truck for the street.

So it was about 100+F outside for my drive home this afternoon and on the flat ground EGTs were below 750F (i.e. 742-749F). On a nice hill that I run up, I was able to keep EGTs at 900-915F where before they would get up to 950+F. Smoke is non-existent with throttle below 30% and even on some down slopes of the road, the EGTs would go as low as 600F at 70-75mph and I have NEVER seen temps like this before. Up until now, I had all but given up on being able to get a tune that I would like to be able to use for driving the truck like I use to have with the smaller turbos. However, this tune has made me fall in love with the truck and this turbo and I am happy and satisfied. I honestly think the only thing that may help this turbo do any better than it is already doing is a ported intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, and maybe some ported heads but I think the only thing that these would provide would be a greater EGT cooling capacity for a load placed on the motor like towing and/or a hill.

I should note and forgot to add that right now boost at 72mph is 3-4psi and lower EGTs as opposed to what it use to be with 4-5psi at the same speed.

SUMMARY:
So far I have about 12k miles on my truck since I completed my initial building in September of last year, 5k miles on the larger injectors, 4k miles on the Stage 3 prototype turbo, and 3k miles with the current fuel system configuration. I know this doesn’t mean that this is a fully proven setup yet but I do think it is off to a great start and I will update this thread as I accrue mileage so I can see how well this thing holds up as “600hp” daily driver. My only real hope for this thread though is to put all of what I have written about doing to my truck in one place for people to reference, if for nothing other than to know what not to do and give ideas of how to do something better. There is a lot of misinformation out there about what products and mods do what so I have tried and am still trying various things so I can talk intelligently, help dispel myths, and provide first-hand experience of what things do what.

Last edited by windrunner408; 08-27-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:49 PM
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As always discussion Nate and I have SUBSCRIBED!!

On edit. This has been almost a week and I never seen that I forgot to add "great" before discussion. Lol I'm we tod Ed.

Last edited by Tuscany; 08-09-2012 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:11 PM
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Yes very nice review. I enjoyed reading this especially since I am wanting a stage 3 and 175cc injectors
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:23 PM
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That is some rig you have there Nate - congrats on pulling it all together.

Excellent write up and you are an asset to the PSD community for us new comers just trying to learn our trucks and what to do and NOT to do with them.

Your last section that you will need to add is a torque converter / tranny review and which one you WILL BE going with - one thing that speaks loud to me is how robust the 5R110 can be....I am surprised it has handled the beating you have given it and keeps on tickin!!!

Thanks for doing this!

Todd
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:30 PM
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Excellent write up Nate.

I've been following the build, and I appreciate you putting this information out there.

Would you mind if I linked this thread in my Performance Potential thread?
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:42 PM
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Nate, have you thought about Doug at GOGO for a solenoid? If so I've heard that he writes a great tune for the trannies. I spoke to him on the phone last week and he was waiting on a shipment of solenoids to alter. I will be getting one before the end of the month. I would call him or email him to discuss tranny shifting. Just a thought. Keep up the good work. What kind of milage are you getting with the bigger injectors? No problem towing that load with the 190's?

Chuck
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:51 PM
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Nice write up man, i have been kinda doing a log of all mods and the gains and dyno results from different stuff in my build thread on the army... Hopefully threads like this will help show people a proven combo so they can get an idea of what it takes to achieve a certain HP goal and not just a bunch people guessing at what parts do what..
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:18 PM
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Hey Nate one day we should get together and head down to PHP for live tuning when I get my build underway.
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:08 PM
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Good write up, Nate, that exactly the type of honesty needed to help others in the 6.0 powerstroke community. That is one major reason why I stay on these forums and keep doing the this I do. The members on here like to stick together and help each other. There are so many decision to make on combo and such that it can get confusing.
I would like to make proven combo that work to help members not only save money, but make as many 6.0 powerstroke into a serious engine.
I must be doing something right lately I have been getting calls from Canada, and diesel performance shops saying that they have heard of me, or some of there customer have come in asking for Mad turbo werks turbo.
I will continue to provide the best turbos I can and cont. to develope more mad things.
With guys like Nate that I have met, it only makes the 6.0 powerstroke stronger, one person can't do it, it takes a group to really change things.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:03 AM
BACKYARDIGAN


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by white59rt View Post
That is some rig you have there Nate - congrats on pulling it all together.

Excellent write up and you are an asset to the PSD community for us new comers just trying to learn our trucks and what to do and NOT to do with them.

Your last section that you will need to add is a torque converter / tranny review and which one you WILL BE going with - one thing that speaks loud to me is how robust the 5R110 can be....I am surprised it has handled the beating you have given it and keeps on tickin!!!

Thanks for doing this!
Thank you for the complement. I will update this as I add more things to try out and if I think of something I have missed. The next major upgrade on my list is a tranny. I need to do some more research on the various tranny options out there but so far I am really liking what I have heard about Warren's Transmissions. They seem to be a very cost effective solution to being able to handle some power.

Stay tuned for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by colo_dually View Post
Excellent write up Nate.

I've been following the build, and I appreciate you putting this information out there.

Would you mind if I linked this thread in my Performance Potential thread?
Thanks Ben. It would be great if you linked this thread to yours. I knew that I had done A LOT of individual reviews of mods and upgrades and just wanted some way to be able to tie it all together if I could because I felt that would do the best for people researching information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by techtulsa View Post
Nate, have you thought about Doug at GOGO for a solenoid? If so I've heard that he writes a great tune for the trannies. I spoke to him on the phone last week and he was waiting on a shipment of solenoids to alter. I will be getting one before the end of the month. I would call him or email him to discuss tranny shifting. Just a thought. Keep up the good work. What kind of milage are you getting with the bigger injectors? No problem towing that load with the 190's?
Yes Chuck I have thought about Doug's solenoid and in fact I have one waiting to go in. I have had it now for a while but I just havent gotten around to putting it in. I also have an 08 5r110 transmission pan and filter ready to go in and I am going to be testing the new deep cooling tranny pan from Derale here shortly as well.

Right now I get 15-16mpg with mixed driving. Hopefully with some live tuning I will be able to get a mile or two more to the gallon. We'll see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuscany View Post
Hey Nate one day we should get together and head down to PHP for live tuning when I get my build underway.
Yea man sounds good. I know Adrian plans to be making the trip as he does stuff to his truck and I will most definitely try to see if I can go with him when he does and will drop you a line when the plans for the next trip get into the works.

Last edited by windrunner408; 08-03-2012 at 06:09 AM.
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