is it possible that your ebrake cable is stretched to the point that it can no longer give proper engagement? (just spitballing)

 

Very possible, lol its a 99 model, lol

 

did the e brake work at all prior to new brakes shoes? or was it weak or non existant prior to shop touching it?

 

Yes, the e-brake worked, just didn't hold that well due to the shoes worn out.

 

then the shop screwed up somehow. if it worked before it should work now, I would go back and politely ask them to fix their mistake. is there a mid body tension adjuster of any sort? sorry still awaiting delivery of my new to me 99 f350 truck and have had no chance to look at it. but my 01 f150 has adjustments at the rear axle, and i thought it had a place to take up slack or stretch right behind the cab prior to the cables splitting to the left and right.

 

Well, they have had it twice and still not been able to fix it. They have been my go to shop for anything that needed to be put on a lift, or things I didn't have time to do. And there is no adjustment at the splitter, but there looks to be adjustment one cable ends near the backing plates.

 

did they adjust the drum brakes themselves that are built into the hub? There should be a plug and a star adjustment that is done with the parking brake released. That adjustment should get to a point where the wheel drags and then back of 1-2 turns.

 

Youtube how to adjust parking brake on your specific truck. My friend who is not mechanically inclined youtubed his and found a video that he used to do his. It is not difficult. He paid a shop to do the rear brakes and they didn't adjust the ebrake. Sounds like a similar scenario.

 

my '02 E-Brake cable is broken, got it scheduled to go in the shop to get it fixed.
more than I can do by myself.

 

The Parking Brake on the Superduty is a constant tension system, meaning there should be tension in the cable at all times from the pedal assembly. The take-up reel in the assembly works with a ratcheting pawl that engages the reel, and the reel has a tension spring. There should not be any visible method of cable take-up adjustment in the system unless someone adds it.

There are also springs on the end of the cables in the drum assembly to counteract the reel's spring so the shoes stay disengaged. It's a balancing tension act between the two, allowing the cable to float, but under tension.

So the question would be, how loose is the cable? When the tension spring in the pedal assembly breaks, there is slack in the cable, and it's easy to pull the cable off the reel from under the truck.

When servicing the parking brake shoes, you must pull some cable off the reel and lock the cable against the reel tension spring, so there is slack in the system at the shoe ends. When yanking on the cable, especially with older trucks, the internal tension spring can break. One could argue that pulling it all the way might cause it to break on an older truck and someone should know better, but that is not an argument I'd care to propose.

Secondarily, since the facility I was in charge of did many tests on the DIH brake design, Explorer to Superduty, I know the shoe clearance is critical for getting these brakes to work correctly. Way more than the old standard drum brakes with the technique of tightening to drag and back off two or how many turns suggested. For NHTSA and Ford test programs, DIH parking brakes require 0.015" clearance to the drums, and you can only do that with proper measuring equipment. The common "Drum Show Gauge" that is available for drum brakes sets the clearance at 0.030", which is excessive for this application. So there can be a lot of trial and error when servicing these in the field.

These are non-self-adjusting brake shoe adjusters. Therefore, installing them backward only causes the direction of the manual turn to be in reverse. If spoon or screwdriver down to tighten, changes to spoon up to tighten with a reversed adjuster installation.

When looking from the back axle to the front axle, the adjusting screws tighten with a clockwise rotation if I remember correctly. So spoon or screwdriver movement is different on each side.

 

The Parking Brake on the Superduty is a constant tension system, meaning there should be tension in the cable at all times from the pedal assembly. The take-up reel in the assembly works with a ratcheting pawl that engages the reel, and the reel has a tension spring. There should not be any visible method of cable take-up adjustment in the system unless someone adds it.

THIS MAY BE OFF TOPIC.....BUT IS THERE AN ADJUSTMENT FOR THE PARKING BRAKE PEDAL?....I FIND MINE TO BE A LITTLE "HIGH".....I HAVE KNEE ISSUES.....SO I AM LOOKING FOR A WAY TO ADJUST MY PARKING BRAKE PEDAL DOWN TOWARDS THE FLOOR A LITTLE.....

B-T-W.....I COULDN'T FIND ANY USEFUL INFORMATION IN MY INTERNET SEARCH.....

THANKS.....

 

They didn't the first time, due to installing the adjusters backwards, but got right on the 2nd time. I crawled under the truck and checked them, and they are adjusted correctly.

 

The pedal is an auto adjust system

You can check the pedal adjuster by reaching under the truck and pulling on the cable
with the pedal in the released position, the cable should pull out of the truck fairly easily, then spring back into place
When the pedal is pushed, the adjuster locks into position and pulls the cable

The system works a little like a starter rope on a small engine -- uses a wind up spring

 

Cutting and welding the lower part of the pedal would be one fix that would be acceptable

The other would be to use one of the electric actuators like the newer vehicles
I am sure some adapting would need to be done

 

Good morning everyone, last week I had my e-brake shoes replaced by a local shop that I have used for years (due to not having a lift of my own)

Why would you need a lift to do any of those repairs?

 

Dude want to stand up todo the work ?

Personally up on jack stands and a roll around stool works for me

 

SINCE I NOW KNOW THAT THERE IS NO ADJUSTMENT.....I WILL PROBABLY GET ANOTHER ONE AND HAVE IT ALTERED TO MY NEEDS.....I JUST DON'T LIKE "NOT" USING THE PARKING BRAKE.....ESPECIALLY WHEN TOWING.....

ALSO.....I LIVE ON A HILL AND USE MY PARKING BRAKE ALL THE TIME.....

 

Manual or Auto trans?

 

AUTO TRANS.....AND PUTTING ALL OF THE LOAD ON THE PARKING GEAR MAKES ME VERY UNCOMFORTABLE.....

My family makes a habit of setting the Parking Brake, in cars and trucks.

MY FAMILY ALSO USES THE PARKING BRAKE ON EVERY VEHICLE AT ALL TIMES.....

 

My family makes a habit of setting the Parking Brake, in cars and trucks.

 

TooManyToys/Jack Thank you for the above reply with your "Parking Brake" summary. I have a 2003 Ford E350 Super Duty Sportsmobile 7.3, Quigley 4X4 I took my van to my local Ford dealer for a parking brake issue (it would not hold) which I have had for years. I have been living with it and decided it was time to get it right. I was doing my 300,000 mile service. Ford said: there is no adjustment on the cable and it needed to be replaced. Then the call was the ebrake mechanism was rusted and needed to be replaced. The end result was it worked in what I would call a simi-hold. In a very short time there was no hold at all to the ebrake system. When I depress the ebrake pedal it has tension like it has a firm grip but there is actually no tension on the brake. My question: is this a defective ebrake system from day 1 in the design by Ford? Ford said there is no adjustment and the common repair is the cable being replaced. After a $1,000 I still have no ebrake. I printed out your "post" as I found it very informative. I have a very talented mechanic and will show him your post. Since I have "all" new parts cable to ebrake calipers etc etc Is there a FIX? Are there any aftermarket FIX's? He will be working on my leaking heater in a few weeks and I want to try a solve my ebrake issue. Is there any advice that might help him? I thank you very much for the Jan. 1 Post.

 

TooManyToys/Jack
Thank you for the above reply with your "Parking Brake" summary.
I have a 2003 Ford E350 Super Duty Sportsmobile 7.3, Quigley 4X4
I took my van to my local Ford dealer for a parking brake issue (it would not hold) which I have had for years. I have been living with it and decided it was time to get it right. I was doing my 300,000 mile service.
Ford said: there is no adjustment on the cable and it needed to be replaced. Then the call was the ebrake mechanism was rusted and needed to be replaced. The end result was it worked in what I would call a simi-hold. In a very short time there was no hold at all to the ebrake system. When I depress the ebrake pedal it has tension like it has a firm grip but there is actually no tension on the brake.
My question: is this a defective ebrake system from day 1 in the design by Ford?
Ford said there is no adjustment and the common repair is the cable being replaced. After a $1,000 I still have no ebrake.
I printed out your "post" as I found it very informative.
I have a very talented mechanic and will show him your post.
Since I have "all" new parts cable to ebrake calipers etc etc Is there a FIX? Are there any aftermarket FIX's?
He will be working on my leaking heater in a few weeks and I want to try a solve my ebrake issue. Is there any advice that might help him?
I thank you very much for the Jan. 1 Post.

 

I'm not one who was supportive of the manufacturers using the DIH brake on this weight class of vehicle. They can be made to hold. We did it in tests, and of course, it had to pass the FMVSS 105 Hill hold parking section in both directions at GVW. NHTSA does its tests at TRC in Ohio, and we did testing there too.

We never ran the E-Vans except in the aftermarket service brakes, so they probably are some differences. But the first thing I would do is pull he rotors and adjust the shoes.

The shoe lining is critical, and the adjustment of the shoes is critical. That being said, I was always skeptical of long-term service life. The FMVSS requirement is for new vehicle production. But there is a lot that happens during the longer term. Some shoe wear from lightly contacting the inner drum, heat aging of the shoe linings (the drum is a little bake oven), and rusting of the drum itself. The drum rubbing surface is critical, and if you look at brand-new OE rear rotors, you can see they are shot-peened. I've never found any aftermarket drums with the same finish (image attached).

Like with the normal disc service brake, the leverage of the contact radius (drum radius) is critical in relation to the diameter of the tires. With the stock application, to me, it's uncomfortable. If your Quigley has tires with a larger rolling radius than stock, it puts more leverage against the parking brake. And with a Quigley conversion, things get dicey about who is responsible for meeting FMVSS 105, despite if whether the weight is within the chassis GVW.

Anyway, the magic number is no more than 0.015" difference between the linings at the center diameter and the diameter of the drum. So that is a 0.0075" clearance per shoe. And it is a pain in the tail to get right. We had a large set of outer micrometers and vernier calipers to get the setting right. If your mechanic uses one of the older service drum gauges, putting some stock on the measuring fingers can get it to the correct clearance. Those were usually set for 0.030 to 0.035" clearance. And I would put a smidgen of anti-seize on the backing plate platforms that the shoes ride on. From the assembly line, there is a like product there.

And not only is the clerance need to be correct, but so does the grind of the shoes, which is something the aftermarket never seems to get correct. However, that's not to say the aftermaerket canno use a high friction material and not worry about abrading the drum surface finish away. I just don't know of one.

I'll throw in some images I have and some slides from a presentation I did to our sales engineers in Ann Arbor, who would interface with the Ford people daily. Our new corporate management (we were acquired), who had never worked on brakes, wanted us to get the F-150 DIH lining business; they had no idea what they were doing. That progress to the Superduty. We never did, it would be too expensive for us, or maybe I should say, too expensive for Ford. Nisshinbo had that market cornered.

There is another direction you could take. Ford used a driveshaft parking brake on the ambulances and some buses. It requires an assembly for the specific transmission model, and the driveshaft would need to be replaced. It typically is around $1000 for the brake assembly only when you can find them. From my point of view, it was a better approach. Just don't lose a U-Joint. While the drum radius is not that much different than one DIH parking brake, it has the mechanical advantage of the ring and pinion.


The data is for an F-150.

Thermal exposure effects; Explorer

Thermal exposure F-150; 200mi Surburban traffic.

Superduty F-350 DIH lining

Supeduty F-350 GVW lining surface degradation post-emergency stops from 25mph (it's a soft, lining for compliancy to the drum for 20% grade hill-hold). The experimental lining is black, but its the smearing in the center that's a concern.

Drum surface of OE rear rotors.

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TRC Parking hills, with grades of 12, 15, 20, and 30 percent. Not that it matters to the discussion. You don't stay at the top. 😂

 

I suppose one question I have is, when you set the park brake, then reach under the cab and grab the brake cable -- is it tight ?

 

I read that the Motorcraft brake shoes hold better than aftermarket ones since they use a softer material, I put them on mine and it works a little bit better, sometimes it holds great and sometimes it doesn't, sounds like I may need to try Motorcraft rotors as well. I use my parking brake all the time since it is a manual.

 

ToManyToys,
I am grateful for you sharing your professional experience with me.
My take on you reply is that the Ford 03 E350 ebraking system is flawed.
I'm not a tech guy having grown up drag racing in the 60's most everything was straight up...what you see is what you have.
The ebrake issue is frustrating. As I was reading your evaluation of the various problems and possible remedies. In my mind I'm saying this situation is a stupid engineering creation and i was thinking of creating a simple clamping systen on the drive shaft....now I'm LOL
I am all in on the drive shaft ebraking system and I am open to you and anyone who wants to contribute to the install on my 03 E350 Sportsmobile extended van. I am going to forward all this info to my mechanic for his review. There is no question I am hoping to go that direction. DRIVESHAFT PARKING BRAKE. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Please send any info, recommendations, parts list etc to me...........what another $1,000 if it works????????????????????????????????

 

I can't say it's flawed, based on my history. It works; it passed FMVSS. It's not as robust as I would prefer. But if I were Ford's brake god, I would have stopped DIH at 9,000 lbs, 'cause s*** happens.

And to anyone reading this in the future, wipe the rotor's inner drum surface off with acetone or brake clean before installing a new rotor.

I'm going to get wordy again.

One of the issues that the parking brake system has (anything really) is aging. And that's true with the parking brake cables. This DIH parking brake application system was designed and patented by Dura. They probably have been acquired by someone else by now. It's a carefully balanced system with tension at the pedal apply system and within the DIH assembly with the springs at the end of the cable. So those cables need to have low friction, and also, low friction cables apply more of the load directly on the brake shoes.

Dura's OE cables had a low friction liner, so there was minimal system loss. Over time, the friction level can rise as the liner wears, and you are no longer applying the same cable tension at the brake shoes as you did when they were new.

The aftermarket cables are much less expensive, and they do not have the same low friction. So you can apply the pedal limit of 150 lbs, but the shoes are now only seeing the equivalent of 125 lbs or less. The issue we have today is the initial production date is long gone, and no manufacturer keeps inventory for all the vehicle's components after about ten years.

There are different transmission-mounted parking brake assemblies for the various model transmissions, and I can't say if they mount to a transfer case.

However, in the "rock climbing" community, there are retrofit kits for driveshaft parking brakes. I'm just not that familiar with them, but you can hunt.

 

I still want to know if the cable under the cab is tight when your brake is applied -- like play a tune tight
Does the pedal go to the floor ?
Should only go about half way

There are a few things that can cause the brake to not hold
most have been mentioned
but failure of the automatic adjuster in the pedal is common, the grease "dries out" and the pedal can go down but not pull the cable
The cables can become disconnected on the operating lever at the brake shoes -- or improperly adjusted
or the cable jacket can be rusted / corroded and crush when the cable is pulled
seen the end of the cable rust enough to pop thru the back plate of the brake housing