Man I was ready to ban you, well played.

A lot of manufacturers are going 10-15, it’s not just superduty line.

can synthetics go longer: yes
Do most of you work your truck hard enough to need 5/7k oil changes: no
Who benefits from failures if you follow the dealer schedule? The dealer
Was amsoil right? Probably but they also aren’t liable if you ruin a motor

The real answer is to blindly trust the manual or get an oil analysis before going beyond 7500.

 

Man I was ready to ban you, well played.

A lot of manufacturers are going 10-15, it’s not just superduty line.

can synthetics go longer: yes
Do most of you work your truck hard enough to need 5/7k oil changes: no
Who benefits from failures if you follow the dealer schedule? The dealer
Was amsoil right? Probably but they also aren’t liable if you ruin a motor

The real answer is to blindly trust the manual or get an oil analysis before going beyond 7500.

Actually they will buy you a new motor if their oil was the cause of the damage.

 

I'm curious, (who) would ever go 15k?

Industrial and commercial users who don’t care or have long life expectancies of their equipment.

They are purchased to be used in setting that are hard on equipment, and longer maintenance intervals are cost savings to them.

EDIT. didn’t know this was an amsoil thread, missed it altogether. I thought it was about some new truck with an oem recommend oci. Wasn’t paying attention..

 

It's always been amusing to me that internet engineers seem to always say a manufacturer recommended OCI is too long. The general consensus amongst such engineers is 1/2 the OCI called for. If a vehicle came with 2000 mile OCI they would say don't ever go past 1000 or it will explode. Lol.

 

Most of the engine failures I see are due to oil related concerns - mostly caused by excessive engine hours and lack of sufficient maintenance. Oil change intervals are not only done by mileage but engine hours and operating conditions as calculated by the maintenance monitor. This is why I am a fan of the on-board maintenance minder. After all of these years reading about oil testing and such I still do not understand why people seem to feel compelled to push oil changes so far. Sure, 7,500 or 10,000 is fine with good synthetic oils but 15-20K?

I know what you're thinking. Does it take 15 quarts or only 13? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a 6.7L Power Stroke, one the most powerful light duty diesels in the world, and could pull a house clean off it's foundation, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?

 

Lol just like @Heavy_GD i got excited

The increase in these intervals makes me wonder what kind of carbon credits the car manufacturers get if they say a vehicle requires "less" maintenance, even though we all know what miles and hours do to oil...

 

Well, I am going to try a 15k interval. AMSOIL is certain after chatting with them tons that I am good for double OEM mileage. I fall under severe service (7,500 miles); AMSOIL says double and assures me the products will last for 15k miles. I don't idle my truck ever so I'm not concerned about idling time and I won't go over 1 year. The products I am using are the AMSOIL EAO98-EA filter and AMSOIL Signature Series 5W-40 oil. I will do an oil analysis at the end if my truck doesn't seize up before then, stay tuned. The update wont be for months as it will be summer and ill be doing a lot of motorcycling.

So am I in a cult now? Am I dumb? Will @FordDoctor be seeing me in his shop? I am not sure, but in AMSOIL WE TRUST.

 

So, this is my $0.02 here. I personally prefer shorter intervals since even though it costs more (I know, who wants that?) I also extend the life of my engine substantially. DO I NEED to do my oil at 5k intervals? Most likely no, am I hurting my engine? DEFINITELY NO.

That said, send an oil sample off at 7500 for testing, see what the lab says. Adjust your services accordingly.

 

15k eh?
Wouldn't bet on that. They gonna buy your oil change if it doesn't?
Oil testing says I'm good with 10k however that's really stretching it out there and I'm using one of the best oils there are on the market.

 

15k eh?
Wouldn't bet on that. They gonna buy your oil change if it doesn't?
Oil testing says I'm good with 10k however that's really stretching it out there and I'm using one of the best oils there are on the market.

Which oil are you using? I am currently using Rotella T6 5W-40 and thinking of doing 7500 OCIs, but would be comfortable with 10K with Schaeffers or HotShots.

 

If you got 10k but are really stretching it, why? What started appearing in that oil sample that was worrisome? Also what oil and filter are you using?

 

The no bullsh...answer is the additive package are being used up.
It's not what's IN the oil, it's what's NOT in the oil and that's the anti-wear additives.
I go 7500 because it's conservative based on testing and a balance of of costs and performance I am comfortable with.

 

Here is 10 pages of debate.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/amsoil-signature-series-warranty-discussion.308737/

@El Wapo If your engine blows are you taking it to your amsoil dealer?

 

If it does, and I am told it is becauae of the oil, I would at least give them a call.
I haven't seen an engine that the oil causes the problem unless it was neglected maintained. I'm not sure any oil would that.
Trying to convince something different from what they have been doing or told to do is almost impossible. Change is a strange thing, we all believe we know best. No amount of proof or information will alter some people's thinking. I mean, even after decades of proof what a pos a jeep or dodge truck is.......some people still buy them.

 

The problem is kind of simple. You have manufacturer recommendations that most vehicle owners abide by and don’t think much about. Maybe it’s the oil life monitor that tells you it’s time to change the oil, or your dealer has some program—whatever it may be. Then, some people get curious, and so they advance to this next group of people, where, just to be safe, they change the oil at 5,000 or 3,000 miles because oil is cheap and engines are expensive. You know, because they’re smart. But then they realize there’s no basis for a 3,000- or 5,000-mile oil change, so they advance to this technical group of people who start to do used oil analysis and understand what oil really is. Maybe they run it to 9,000 miles because a Blackstone lab report told them they could; maybe they run it to 7,000 miles but no longer because they had high fuel dilution in the oil. But then, after never seeing a bad Blackstone lab report at 12,000 miles, they say, “Push it to 15,000,” and you reach the biggest, smartest people in the room: the AMSOIL cultists. We just trust them. 15,000 miles? Easy. My buddy has a Model T and is at 1 million miles, only using AMSOIL.

The real answer is that its just not that simple, you cant say 3k is too short or 15k is too long, in a perfect world you would have 24/7 monitoring with complete understanding of everything that is going on........ but we don't so I am selling my truck and just walking everywhere.

 

The problem is kind of simple.

that’s a lot of words for a simple problem

the real issue is the uninformed and ignorant are louder than the others.

which is why oil debates even exist.

 

So, it is possible to control all the variables?

Engine/oil temperature?
Fuel dilution?
Oil pumping rate?
Cylinder blow-by?
etc.

All kinds of things can and do happen that can impact the key variables. Fans, Water pumps, coolers, leaks, etc., etc., etc.

Sure there are factors and design values for the above, but again - things happen.
How close to the edge is appropriate/smart?

The amount of risk that is acceptable is different for everyone, but it SHOULD be based on the potential cost of the potential consequences. Basic risk management. Who wants to be that one person in a hundred that loses an engine from factors beyond their control? Just because 99 people were successful w/ the same philosophy wouldn't make me feel any batter if I were that one person w/ the failure. And people that can't afford a new engine or new vehicle should be a bit more cautious!

Certainly some level of conservatism is very much warranted. The degree will be different for just about everyone.

 

I guess it brings us to a larger question: What did the Ford engineers find in the oil at 7,500 miles that told them 7,500 is the limit for people? And was it dino oil or full synthetic—10W-30, 5W-40, etc.? Conversely, what did AMSOIL find in their oil and filters that brought them to the conclusion a 15,000-mile interval is allowable? If the oil is 30% contaminated after 3,000 miles, 50% after 5,000 miles, 70% after 7,000 miles, and 100% after 10,000 miles, then every oil analysis should be a linear, easy-to-understand report, but it’s not. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of used oil analyses (UOA) for the 6.7 Power Stroke, all over 10,000–12,000 miles, saying that the oil is just as good as it was at 3,000 miles or EVEN BETTER.

 

That detail would be interesting!

It is hard to EVER build an air-tight case against oil specifically in engine failure (and it would have to be the ROOT CASE, not a secondary effect)! This type of complexity enables companies to make some wild claims. That is just my opinion though. Amsoil has money for some great legal advice I am sure! Me, not so much!

"Oil even better than new after 3000 miles"? - how can that be? I would drain it and sell it for more than the new Amsoil if that is the case!

I am still dealing w/ a HEUI system, so I have EXTRA limitations, lol!

 

No, not better than new oil after 10-12k. I said 10-12k oil being just as good as 3k oil or even better. The even better part comes from fuel dilution readings SOMETIMES trending down on higher mile oil, as well as wear metals SOMETIMES trending down.

Again UOA is a bizarre thing because it is not linear for all categories.

 

This stuff must be like fine wine... gets better with age.

 

The variables are:

are you cheap
are you lazy

there are trucks running hundreds of thousands of working miles… the two questions above dictate this debate.

 

The variables are:

are you cheap
are you lazy

there are trucks running hundreds of thousands of working miles… the two questions above dictate this debate.

13 quarts of Rotella T6 costs me $70. An OEM Motorcraft oil filter costs me $20. That’s $90 total, and I can change it at 7,500 miles, plus or minus a few hundred, according to my IOM. AMSOIL is $186 for 13 quarts with a filter, and they claim 15,000 miles. There is no cost savings. Am I lazy? No. Doing an oil change on a 6.7 Power Stroke is one of the easiest things you can do.

I have owned my 2012 6.7 since it had 60,000 miles, and it now has 180,000 miles on it. During its course, it has only run Rotella T6 and Motorcraft filters every 7,000–8,000 miles.

The variables on this debate could include any of the following: UOA reports and what those could include (tbn, fuel dilution, metals, oil viscosity, etc.), Engineers opinions that majored in powerstrokeforum folklore, driving style, known or unknown problems with said truck, etc.

But we have not got past ENGINEERS OPINIONS THAT MAJORED IN POWERSTROKE FORUM FOLKLORE, YET!

 

If you are going to rely on oil analysis for an OCI, make sure you opt for soot contamination in the test. That (IMHO) is as important as shear and TBN/ TAN.
FWIW, I have had my oil tested at 7500 miles (5100 of them towing 12k and it was ok. The oil minder went off at 8100 miles and I changed it anyway. Had I not been towing, I'm betting it would have gone 10k for the oil minder. It's pretty much what I go by. I'm using better oil than the original spec so when the truck tells me to change I know I'm on the safe side anyway.

 

If you are going to rely on oil analysis for an OCI, make sure you opt for soot contamination in the test. That (IMHO) is as important as shear and TBN/ TAN.
FWIW, I have had my oil tested at 7500 miles (5100 of them towing 12k and it was ok. The oil minder went off at 8100 miles and I changed it anyway. Had I not been towing, I'm betting it would have gone 10k for the oil minder. It's pretty much what I go by. I'm using better oil than the original spec so when the truck tells me to change I know I'm on the safe side anyway.

So, do you believe the AMSOIL Signature 5W-40 with their filter is good enough for your personal truck to go 15,000 miles?

 

People also put thier family in a car with the cheapest brakes possible because the box says “premium” and “life time guarantee”

This is why oil threads are pointless.

 

@Heavy_GD what year power stroke do you own?

 

You already pointed out the price not being worth it for 15k changes. Without breaking down the amsoil additive package, let’s just assume the price jump is because they have some magical unicorn piss in it that makes it last for 15k. doesn’t change how 5k or 7500 intervals with an analysis are perfectly safe, encouraged AND cost the same.

I don’t really see the point in this thread anymore tbh. Amsoil makes 20k full synthetic and unless they are warrantying my engine, no thanks

 

You already pointed out the price not being worth it for 15k changes. Without breaking down the amsoil additive package, let’s just assume the price jump is because they have some magical unicorn piss in it that makes it last for 15k. doesn’t change how 5k or 7500 intervals with an analysis are perfectly safe, encouraged AND cost the same.

I don’t really see the point in this thread anymore tbh. Amsoil makes 20k full synthetic and unless they are warrantying my engine, no thanks

But AMSOIL, as with others, has a warranty without tricky wording that basically states that if their oil were to be the cause of the component failure, they will reimburse you or fix it. Is the warranty worth the paper it’s written on?
I mean, say you had a problem and the fuel dilution came back at 15 percent. AMSOIL would obviously say that something is wrong with your truck and that the 15,000-mile interval should not have accumulated that much dilution.
But say that at 15,000 miles, you keep taking oil samples, and it’s showing that the oil is clapped out—no more anti-wear additives, viscosity changing, lots of metal, etc.—and your motor is experiencing accelerated wear and all of that could be attributed solely to the oil. What would AMSOIL do in that situation? I’m not sure.
There is still a point to this thread, and that is to try and see if AMSOIL is full of it on these 15,000-mile intervals. So far, nobody has posted one UOA of a 15,000-mile oil change with AMSOIL. Again, I’m just playing devil’s advocate here, but I also don’t think it’s fair to AMSOIL for them to make these claims and we just **** on it. I also don’t think it’s fair for AMSOIL to make these claims and then everyone posts bad UOA reports at 15,000 miles and shares stories of how AMSOIL denied their claims, even though it was 100 percent caused by the oil. But life isn't fair yada yada yada we get it, Its an oil thread.

Just my 2 quarts

 

The one that can get most people is the requirement to prove you had followed all factory recommended maintenance practices and intervals prior to using Amsoil .............

 

I just realized how blurry that picture is lol.

But yeah Mark, the burden of proof on that one is high. and then what is considered “racing” use? mechanically deficient engines? As far as i’m concerned, the engines we are going to be using them in are deficient to some extent. They go on to say that improper modification could include using products that amsoil doesn’t make or partner with, so most modifications? Just spitballing but in my experience, if a warranty has that much red tape, there’s a level of gimmick to it

On the flip side, I did see a 6.7 owner who does crazy long intervals. I’ll see if i can find it, but he also has close to a million miles and has done countless analyses. I can’t remember what oil he uses but it’s not important, if the oil passes your analysis then truck on. That is why oil threads are looked down on lol

 

Yes good points everyone.... except @Heavy_GD

@bismic have you ever done UOA on your truck? And if so what did you make of it?

@mlgjellybean123 have you ever done UOA on your truck? And if so what did you make of it?

 

I have posted quite a few UOA over the years. I have a few on my 7.3L, but most on my 6.0L.

I had an increase in lead when using Schaeffer 9000 (5W40). The lead ppm returned to normal when I switched to another oil. Why it happened, I will never know, but it did happen to a few other 6.0L owners that used the Schaeffer 5W40 oil.

I had an increase in iron when I switched to Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme, and slowly (very slowly) it returned to normal when I changed to Mobil Delvac 1 ESP and Mobil 1 TurboTruckDiesel oil (both 5W40). I do NOT believe that the Valvoline oil caused the iron spike, but it sure was coincidental when it showed up, and it did start dropping off after I switched. This is one reason I say that there are often times some complicated things going on in an engine and an oil system.

I see shearing of the oil, but nowhere near the internet "6.0L myth" level. In almost all of my results, my 5W40 oil is still a 40W oil after 5000 miles. At 7500 miles, most of my results will reflect a viscosity in the VERY HIGH 30 wt range ........ very close to the bottom of the 40 wt range (they were all above the starting viscosity of a virgin 10W30 oil).

Some 5W40 oils shear a LOT less than others.
All 5W40 oils will shear more than 15W40 oils because of the amount of VII additives.
All multi-viscosity oils will shear, some faster than others.
The harder you work a 6.0L, the shearing rate will increase some (HPOP).

I have never seen any fuel dilution of my oil - which is a MAJOR reason I do UOA.

My soot levels have always be low.

For MANY years I adhered to a 5000 OCI. Then 4-5 years ago I decided to experiment with going 7500 miles. I was curious and I would accept any/all risk as my own responsibility. I do NOT advocate extended oil changes, but with typical driving, the 6.0L manual does say 7500 miles is ok. EVEN SO - the 6.0L has additional oil issues (ie injectors and stiction).

I have used stiction additives, even though I have not needed them. I simply wanted to see the data and the effect on the oil analytical results.

I rarely ran TBN's or TAN's, but I ran a few. The oils were never depleted.

That is all I can recall right now (of anything important anyway).

Oh, and 5W40 oil meets the SAE definition of a 40 weight oil. Clearly it is a multiviscosity oil and is NOT the same as a straight weight 40W oil. Even so the SAE definition is clear and the 5W40 oil meets it (100*C properties and HTHS viscosity).

I am currently not using an oil on the Ford approved list because I think that that list is BY FAR more applicable to the 6.7L vs the earlier diesels!

LOL - lets just get this oil thread REALLY controversial!!!

 

LOL - lets just get this oil thread REALLY controversial!!!

haha. Interesting, and thanks for sharing. What oil and brand do you currently use? And are there any on your radar to try? Also, have you heard of this one oil brand that starts with an "A". I can't remember the full name of it, but it's like Asoil, or Amsil, or Amoil, or something like that. They have these long oil change claims.

 

My driving (early on with the truck) was to-and-from work every day (25 miles each way), hunting trips, and family vacations.

Since I have retired (over 5 years), no more work trips. Still do vacations in it, but not many (costs more to travel than the Camry). I still hunt, but not so much in the last 2 years due to some significant back issues. I still drive it some in the city, but where I live, that is usually a 40 mile round trip event, along w/ the miles in the city itself.

 

My driving early on was to and from work every day (25 miles each way), hunting trips, and family vacations.

Since I have retired (over 5 years), no more work trips. Still do vacations in it, but not many (costs more to travel than the Camry). I still hunt, but not so much in the last 2 years due to some significant back issues. I still drive it some in the city, but where I live, that is usually a 40 mile round trip event, along w/ the miles in the city itself.

I think i remember you saying that before, really nothing crazy either. I love to see it!

One of these days, you and Jack need to release the spreadsheets and videos. We are over here waiting for it like the plane logs to a certain island lol

 

Never have.

 

I find this thread interesting because it seems to have a hidden meaning as if someone is angling for a reason hate on something.
Oil posts are kinda pointless, the debate part is anyway. The only thing debatable are the results analysis and what to do about it when data and records indicate a problem.
It ain't rocket science. Pick a synthetic that matches the spec the OEM says too use OR log your own results and choose for your self. Pick a brand, any brand it doesn't really matter a lot, then do UOA's to monitor. If your **** box is working, keep doing that.

We do leak downs tests, lash checks, spring rate checks more often than most people fill up along UOA's at every change and compare with a unused sample as a standard. It's part of our maintenance program. We haven't found anything super special about one or another brand over the years so we stick with what someone else is gonna buy, what the builder wants, or any name brand. I use a lot of Scheaffers because we continue to have good experainces working with them personally a professionally.

A 100 years ago were were dumping 8-15qrts every two-three nights and over the years have learned that a quality synthetics were allowing to go longer and we were pretty much most likely throwing money out the window. UOA's saved the engine on working on on right now when it found high solids. $40 was a pretty cheap diagnosis and no tools eere thrown across the shop either.
I have only a few UOA's on my truck and it wasnt to debate anything, I find it useful for looking for coolant and fuel and soot and get an idea how far I could really go. I see no good reason to toss out $250 at 5k cause Ford said I should 20 years ago. Testing told me 10k was doable but I don't want to push it that far so I compromise at 7500 because I can afford it and my people agreed with the idea. I've chosen that as a good value for my money to get me another 150k before I'm ready to let it go for something else.
I don't give a damn what the brand tells me, I don't give adamn about the warranty promises either.
I sell the advertising, I don't fall for it.