Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum banner

1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Compression Ignition Addict
Joined
·
5,805 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
There are two types of sync. Cam/Crank sync (or just Sync) and FICM sync. I will attach a document on the FICM that contains FICM sync (and some sync) troubleshooting, but this thread is primarily on Sync troubleshooting.

When troubleshooting, make sure you have the PIDs programmed correctly in your scan tool, I have seen the two sync's reversed in the scan tool programming. Also, make sure your VPower and LPower voltages are 10.5 volts or above. Also, it is important to know that your alternator is working properly (not causing voltage quality issues). Lastly, you need a strong crank - 150 rpm minimum. If you have no rpm reading, then that will be discussed later in this thread.

NOTE - it is POSSIBLE to have FICM sync and not have Sync.
Several situations have been documented here it can occur. One is a bent Crank shaft tone ring (links to the thread below), and the other is being "one tooth off" in the cam and crank gear alignment (timing).
ficm sync yes/ sync no

The information will come from a variety of sources and will eventually contain links to threads from various forums. It will be a work-in-progress for awhile.

Sync:
Sync is achieved when the PCM receives a signal from the Crankshaft sensor (CKP) indicating the sensor is working and the correct signal has been identified by the PCM. If the Crankshaft sensor is working improperly, the PCM cannot calculate engine speed or cylinder position, preventing fuel delivery. Engine RPM is derived from the CKP.

FICM Sync:
The FICM uses CMPO (Camshaft Position Sensor Output) and CKPO (Crankshaft Position Sensor Output) signals, which are sent by the PCM, to calculate FICM SYNC. FICM SYNC is calculated by the FICM and is the correlation between the camshaft
pin and the crankshaft triggers. Once FICM SYNC is achieved, the FICM uses engine speed, MFDES (Mass Fuel Desired), EOT, and ICP to calculate fuel timing, pulse width, and pilot injection usage. If the CMPO and CKPO signals are not properly timed, then FICM Sync may not occur.

Always diagnose any Sync issues before diagnosing FICM Sync issues.
Be aware that you can have CMP and CKP codes simply due to an engine stall or excessive cranks.

To properly troubleshoot a Sync issue, it would be best to have an oscilloscope and knowledge of its use.

Sync issues can occur with the following issues:
  • Bad CMP or CKP sensor
  • Bad wiring to the CMP or CKP (this includes improper shielding of the wiring due to damage or improper repair)
  • Oil soaked connectors to the CMP or CKP
  • Loose connectors at the CMP, CKP, or PCM (potentially even a loose FICM connector)
  • Loose CKP tone wheel or a damaged CKP tone wheel - including a bent tooth on the tone wheel. A new crank shaft is required if this is the case.
  • Loose CMP timing pin (they can get loose enough to actually damage the CMP sensor, AND they can even fall out completely)
  • Rust under the CMP flange (causing it not to seat properly) and/or on the sensor itself.
  • Bad PCM (processing it incorrectly at higher frequencies)
  • Crank shaft end play (not common)
  • Excessive alternator "ripple" (need an oscilloscope), or you can do a quick AC voltage check and should have less than 100 mV (but best to measure RMS AC voltage). Good video - h t t p s://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c8uD1C6WNk You could also just take the alternator to an electrical shop (or even an autoparts store) and have it tested.
  • On an engine re-build, it is possible to have mis-aligned the Crank and Cam gears. It has been documented that being off by "one tooth" might still allow the engine to start.
In addition to the FICM sync document, also attached is a Sync troubleshooting document.

TO VERIFY THE CRANKSHAFT TONE RING (WHEEL) IS DAMAGED FOLLOW THE PROCEDURE BELOW:
• Disconnect battery cables
• Drain oil out of oil pan
• Remove both turbocharger cooler pipes
• Remove the radiator stator shroud
• Loosen engine mount bolts from chassis. Lift engine off of chassis until turbo is against the heat shield on the cowl
• Remove all the oil pan bolts. Drop oil pan down to remove bolts in the pick up tube. Remove the oil pan by backing it out towards the transmission
• The crankshaft trigger wheel is located at the front of the crankshaft. Manually turn engine over while inspecting every tooth on the trigger wheel.
You could also use a borescope and insert it into the opening after removal of the CKP. Then rotate the engine and look for uneven movement.

TO VERIFY THE CAMSHAFT TRIGGER (PIN or PEG) IS DAMAGED:
• Use a borescope and insert it into the opening after removal of the CMP.
 

Attachments

·
Compression Ignition Addict
Joined
·
5,805 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Documents attached on setting the timing - Cam and Crank gear alignment

Many people align the gears with a Tee Square (instead of using the OEM tool), just make 100% sure that the reference point for the block is level when doing that.

Video:
h t t p s://youtu.be/1da92-b7I2c

The two holes in the Cam gear (below the key-way) should be on the opposite side of the Cam gear center point as the Crank gear .... and they should align with the Cam gear timing mark AND the crankshaft timing peg. Thanks to "powerstrokevirus" for the third pic.

The (expensive) OEM alignment tool part # is 303-772, if you decide you want to go that route.

Below is a video from DieselTechRon in which he troubleshoots a vibration problem caused by an improperly installed crankshaft adapter. Note that SOMETIMES the alignment dowel was not installed on the original crankshaft adapter. If you decide to remove this adapter, proper care MUST be taken to get it back on EXACTLY like it came off.


If you are checking the timing because someone has previously been into the engine, it is definitely easier to see the timing marks with the adapter off - just be aware of the risks and the need for precise work.

After setting the timing and re-installing the adapter, you can check the runout. It should be less than .001 inch.
 

Attachments

·
Compression Ignition Addict
Joined
·
5,805 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Note - having a good quality multi-meter will be invaluable for testing of the cam/crank sensors. You need one that tests the frequency (hertz) of the electrical signal.

Cam and Crank Sensor troubleshooting
Be aware that both of these sensors can leak oil back into the connector. This oil can cause damage that then corrupts the signal. If the sensor is leaking oil, then both the sensor and the pigtail should be replaced. Also, the wiring is shielded, so any repair work needs to be done w/ soldered connections and re-installing shielding in the wiring.
CKP pigtail: WPT-1271 or 3U2Z-14S411-CGC
CMP pigtail: WPT-359 or 3U2Z-14S411-JCA
(the CMP pigtail in the link below is aftermarket, but might be better due to its length)
also
Crankshaft sensor o-rings: 3C3Z-9C064-DA
Camshaft sensor o-rings: 3C3Z-9N693-JA
also
Crankshaft sensor part # (F-series): 3C3Z-6C315-AA
Camshaft sensor part # (F-series): 8C3Z-12K073-A

One "trick" (if you have a no-start w/ a no-sync), you can try cranking at the same time someone CAREFULLY wiggles the wires to both the cam and crank sensors. This MIGHT identify a wiring issue - BUT AGAIN, BE CAREFUL!

Video of re-wiring the cam sensor:

NOTE: The Crank Sensor RARELY fails. This is also true about the CKP wiring!

CKP and CMP electrical diagram:


Crank Shaft Position Sensor (CKP) troubleshooting:

The Crank Sensor (a variable reluctance, or magnetic, sensor) is responsible for engine speed and crankshaft position. Also, there is a missing two-tooth window to provide sync pulses to the CKP sensor. The WSM states that if the tach isn't moving, the crank sensor is likely to have died. From the CKP, the PCM software gets an edge every 3 degrees and these edges are used for fuel injection timing, fuel quantity control along with the calculation of engine speed.

In the PC/ED manual it states: "Engine speed is determined by counting 15 windows on the crankshaft gear each crankshaft rotation" on page 5-68. Also in the PC/ED it states that the PCM must have a CKP signal for the IPR to move off of 14%. Without a CKP signal, you should also see 0 fuel pulse width AND the IPR should default to 14%.

To do a quick troubleshooting on the CKP sensor, check the resistance between Pin 30 (harness side) and Pin 41 (harness side) of the middle PCM connector (C1381c) . Resistance should be 300-400 ohms.

also:

Connect a DVOM to both of the CKP circuits (+ and -) of the middle PCM connector.
  • PCM connector 1381c (PCM middle connector) for the CKP troublehooting:
  • Pin# 30 Crankshaft (+) (Dark Blue)
  • Pin# 41 Crankshaft (-) (Gray)
Set your DVOM to Hz. On the CKP circuit, you should be seeing 150 to 200 Hz when the engine is cranked over (directly proportional to 150 to 200 RPMs).
The range for the CKP sensor is between 100 to 4000 for the CKP sensor.


Cam Shaft Position Sensor (CMP) troubleshooting:

The cam sensor is a variable reluctance (magnetic) sensor, which responds to a rotating trigger (often called a peg or pin) protruding from the camshaft. The sensor produces a sine wave in response to the peg as it passes the sensor. It produces its own voltage output (AC) while the engine is cranking. This cam shaft trigger allows the CMP sensor to indicate proper camshaft to crankshaft position (cylinder identification) for correct cylinder timing. The PCM calculates crankshaft rotational velocity for each cylinder from this position signal. The acceleration for each cylinder is then calculated into a percentage delta change decrease in velocity for use by the misfire algorithm. The resulting deviant cylinder acceleration values are used in evaluating misfire.

No fuel command signal when the ICP, RPM, and VPWR signals are correct usually indicates a loss of CMP signal.

To do a quick troubleshooting on the CMP sensor, check the resistance between Pin 31 (harness side) and Pin 43 (harness side) of the middle PCM connector (C1381c) . Resistance should be 800-1000 ohms.

also:

Check the red (Pin 31) and orange (Pin 43) wires at the PCM middle (C1381c) connector. Using a multimeter that reads hertz check across both wires while cranking (back probe w/ plug in), you should see around 1.3 Hz. If you are within a couple of tenths of that reading then you should be ok.

Lastly, a cam sensor is only about $30 if you just want to pop one in.

More to come as I have time..........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Did I miss it somewhere...Is SYNC or FICMSYNC tested with KOEO or KOEC(cranking)?

Mine was running perfectly fine one day - the next day I went to start and all it will do is crank.

Using FORScan, and looking at FICMSYNC, I get = NO at KOEO, FICM LPWR = 10.50, FICM_MPWR - 48.00, ICP = 0 and IPR = 14.84%

Codes: 0336, 0405, 0472, 2285-E0, 2614-60 (all PCM). Also get a OBDII of 2285-C

It's an 05, EGR deleted (probably why the 0405). The ICP has been unplugged due to a known issue for 3 weeks. Could be the reason for the 0472 and the 2285. However, the 0336 and the 2614 are new.
 

·
Compression Ignition Addict
Joined
·
5,805 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Both Sync and FICM sync should be "YES" (or 1), when cranking.

Probably best to post up a new thread instead of tagging onto a "sticky" thread.
 
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
Top