Victor-Reinz/Black-Onyx Headgaskets, Why IMHO they fail - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 05-29-2012, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Victor-Reinz/Black-Onyx Headgaskets, Why IMHO they fail

After having experience with both selling these gaskets and in having to reinstall OE head-gaskets on vehicles that have had the "Black Onyx" gaskets installed, I decided to try and find out why the Victor-Reinz/Black Onyx gaskets fail and why the OE gaskets seem to last.

What I found was surprising.

Both brands of head-gasket consists of 5 layers of stainless(?) steel.

Both brands of head-gasket have a thinner layer (#4 up) with a folded ring that most likely acts as a fire ring*.

(*go here:ATS Diesel Fire Ring Head - 1039203278 | OC DIESEL for a picture of a fire ringed head)

Both brands of head-gasket have multiple (3) layers with a sealing(?) compound applied to both sides of the layer.

The OE gaskets use a blue sealing compound, the Victor Reinz use a black compound. Two of the three Victor Reinz layers with the sealing(?) compound on them are completely covered. None of the OE gasket layers are completely covered.

The measurements below pretty much spell out why the gaskets most likely fail in my humble opinion(IMHO). They were measured top (#1 up) to bottom (#5 up) as they would be installed on the engine. The OE gaskets were all measured on bare metal. The Victor Reinz were measured on bare metal where possible. The most notable difference was between the 3rd and 4th layers. Each brand of gasket has a built in "fire ring" on the 4th layer. This is where the layer is folded back on itself creating a "fire ring" around each cylinder opening. I believe it is the difference in thickness of the built in "fire ring" that could cause the Victor-Reinz/Black-Onyx head gaskets to fail more often. Also, the overall thickness of each layer could play a role as well.


Ford OE:

#1 up) .010" Bare metal

#2 up) .015"

#3 up) .010"

#4 up) .007" The "fire ring" fold is .014"

#5 up) .010" Bare metal


Victor-Reinz/Black-Onyx:

#1 up) .010" Including black coating

#2 up) .015"

#3 up) .007"

#4 up) .005" The "fire ring" fold is .010"

#5 up) .010" Including black coating
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post #2 of 42 Old 05-29-2012, 11:52 AM
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Very nice Observation Ken


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post #3 of 42 Old 05-29-2012, 11:55 AM
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now that is cool info

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post #4 of 42 Old 05-29-2012, 12:03 PM
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I made a post not too long ago asking this. Also glad you posted, reminds me that I need to call John and see if you got my oil cooler back yet. So thanks twice

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post #5 of 42 Old 05-29-2012, 12:07 PM
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I wonder if the company even gives a fvck about their defective gaskets..

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post #6 of 42 Old 05-29-2012, 01:22 PM
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Great post, Ken. So if I'm reading this correctly, the total difference between the two is only .005 and the fire ring fold is .004 with the Ford OE being thicker, which I am assuming your point is that it would allow a more forgiving sealing surface.

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post #7 of 42 Old 05-29-2012, 01:41 PM
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Absolutely fantastic to get this detailed assessment.

Past posts were pretty clear that there was a thickness difference, but to know "where and why" is certainly appreciated more than can be expressed!

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post #8 of 42 Old 05-29-2012, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Eye View Post
Great post, Ken. So if I'm reading this correctly, the total difference between the two is only .005 and the fire ring fold is .004 with the Ford OE being thicker, which I am assuming your point is that it would allow a more forgiving sealing surface.
Correct and I think the thickness of the "fire ring" is important also. The thicker the "fire ring", the more clamping force is applied at that location.



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post #9 of 42 Old 05-29-2012, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f350powerstroke View Post
I wonder if the company even gives a fvck about their defective gaskets..
Valid question. Especially since its unlike DANA to put out a crap product

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post #10 of 42 Old 05-29-2012, 02:01 PM
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They do appear nicer or better since they have more sealing compounds than the oem buti guess that's not gonna cut it

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