Change the dummy plugs and stand pipes (and the little plugs that come in the kit). Then (before sealing it back up) do another air test through the ipr port. Listen for air at the oil rails, turbo drain hole, hpop and oil filter housing.

I'd personally take the turbo out for this work. To me, it's just easier to work in there without it being there. Don't forget to disconnect the batteries before working on it.

 

I assume you have an 04 (from your forum name), maybe with the 03 engine .... is this correct?

Where did you hook the air up at?
If at the ICP sensor port, how did you close the IPR valve?
What air pressure were you using?

Hooking air up at the IPR valve port (w/ proper adapter) as 6riders suggests eliminates the need to close the IPR valve.

If you are hooking air up at the ICP sensor port, and if you aren't closing the IPR valve, then you are dumping air to the crankcase. Then if you block off the PCV port, you are just pressuring up your crankcase ... which you really don't want to do.

 

The title hints it may be an '06
@jahcure04 would be a good idea to start the post with the year and model, there is no need to make everyone guess what truck you have or do any research to figure this out

Hooking air the the ICP sensor port without closing the IPR will cause air to come out like in your vid
you will need to close the IPR or use an adapter in the IPR port -- if you choose to close the IPR, be sure to limit the time to 30 seconds or less

 

LOL - I missed that (obviously). It is in the video title also. Just not awake I guess.

 

Just to be a little more specific .......

If you block off the crankcase vent points with air pressure on it and the oil filter out, it is going to blow air out of the oil filter canister drain valve (which is open when the filter is out). That air you see is not an indication of a bad HPOP.

 

Just to be a little more specific .......

If you block off the crankcase vent points with air pressure on it and the oil filter out, it is going to blow air out of the oil filter canister drain valve (which is open when the filter is out). That air you see is not an indication of a bad HPOP.

Fantastic . To hear yes to be clear it is a 2006 6.0

i tested at ipr location tonight i will take valves covers off and check more in depth , my pessimist assumption about bad hpop was air flowing back trough canister i assumed from reading posts and looking at videos that this is not supposed to happen.

I picked it up last Wednesday when i drove it 6 hrs trough mountains and it ran good but when ipr showed 24 % at idle i knew i had hpo leaks ( experience from my previous 06 i had replaced stc , resealed oil rails changed injectors orings polished nipple cups , ) what threw me off was that this one did not want to start or was very hard starting when cold( 70-80 deg)

I had to use starting fluid to get it to fire but once running all seemed ok.

I also tested lpop filling the canister without blocking the drain and it takes about 10sec will confirm this tonight.

Thanks for all your insights



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When testing at the IPR port, there should be no air leaking anywhere -- if air is leaking at the filter, then one of the check valves in the pump is bad -- there are 4 individual pumps(pistons) , each with a check valve

 

If he was testing from the IPR port in the video, then that is a lot of air coming from the PCV vent. Something big going on there!

 

Yeah [emoji20] i guess i will find out tonight keep you posted.

So what i gather is priliminary conclusion is bad hpop amongst the other leaks...

I will also try to pull the hpop it and see.

If these rarely fail then what makes them go bad ?


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I don't think it's the hpop. Put air through the ipr port. This is the proper way to air test the system. When you have the ipr out, replace the screen and o-rings, even if the old ones look good.
When I hade this problem, I took the turbo out and diagnosed from there. This gave me the ability to replace the hpop cover seals and check the stc fitting. It's not really that hard. Just takes patience and a bolt organizer.

 

That vid shows the problem pretty good

One thing I would add is to turn the pump with the ports up and fill the inlet port with oil, then keep filling while rotating until oil comes out of the outlet
Next place your thumb/ finger over the outlet and turn the pump to see if all 4 cylinders pump equally and produce pressure

 

So i tested like you mentioned but i was not convinced with the finger test. I rigged up a old guage( looked to the highest pressure reading one i had) to the ouput port by using old stc fitting.

I came to the conclusion that if this is a 2 stage pump its fine on the other hand if its a one stage pump it needs replacing.

Check vid

Thoughts ?

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So little Update, i removed , alternator disconnected, injector harness , basically made space to work, retested oil canister fill up time with check valve closed and it takes about 5 sec to fill up , so that checks out. i tried to air test once again last night once i was done removing the valve covers, i and i could not get it to show any leaks i fired up torque and hooked up the icp to confirm it was showing shop air pressure and it was. this left me kind of confused.

i tried it again this morning and low and behold, hisssssssss it has the old style 10mm plugs and stand pipes so those has to be changed, still hear some air trough the filter canister , will be taking off turbo and hpop tonight. my guess is if it has the 10mm old style plug chances is are it also has the old stc fitting and probably the old nylon screen under the oil cooler and that is how it probably ingested crap that made the check valve stick open.

is there any other screen offering than fords updated one or IPR research HD one ?

is there any resources that shows the inner working of the late style pump ? can it be " back flushed" ?

Thanks again.

 

The oil needs to be pushed out(or leak out) before a leak will show, your experience with the air test illustrates this
The screen under the oil cooler should never have anything on it(but we know different) -- the oil it is exposed to is fresh from the filter
The screen on the IPR protects that valve from particles that come from the pump, including any crud that gets past the oil filter -- when the IPR screen is damaged, that means your system is dirty and a torn screen means the crud was forced thru by the pressure

The IPR is a dump valve for the HPOP and must flow oil

There are a few pictures that show the inner workings of the HPOP, but none I have found very useful -- it is a V style 4 piston pump with individual outlet checks on the pistons -- it is possible to inspect the check valves and pistons for damage -- also the camshaft followers that operate the pistons

Most people just replace the pump without the curiosity of finding why it needs replaced -- I would like to know bore and stroke dimensions

 

So not much of an up date just a few observations.

As stated above this morning i got the air leaking sound . i shut the air off and tried it again around lunch time,, no sound.

Around 3pm i turned the air back on and left it for a while and after 1 hour it started leaking.

Tonight i did not do much apart from determining where the hiss was coming from and pulling out turbo up pipe v band clamp was pissing me off yey air hammer trick.

Pulled out the dummy plugs and the were in pristine condition. Same for half of each stand pipe ( dint want to remove oil rail on pass side just yet) on driver side lower portion of stand pipe is stuck in the bore that might be a leak ?


So no sound exept from First injector on pass side is that number 2 i think.

Slowly Making my way to the hpop

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Here a little update , this truck has the original stc fitting, stand pipes good orings, dummy plugs good orings , when i took out the hpop the stc fitting was bad and my guess well for now anyway is this is what pressurized my crank case in the first video and that is how it came back out the drain back valve in the oil filter housing.

this may have been my no start cold and no start hot issue.

i started bench testing the hpop with shop air in the ipr port and i blocked off the exit to see if any air was leaking out the oil intake hole, no air escapes.
stil have more testing to do as per Hydro's sugestion.

i will also plug up the stand pipes and pressurize the branch tubes before putting it up back together just to have piece of mind that they dont leak.

will also probably reseal the injectors and oil rail since i am there even is all looks ok except injector number one leaks out the top i taught it was #2 but wrong side of engine.

also my rear cover is cracked not too severely can i get away with jb weld on the outside or something ?
i really dont feel like taking trans off to replace it specially if the branch tubes checks out ok .


I also have a problem removing a fuel line fitting any idea how i can take it off without destroying the line ?


Leak with pump in place

Bench testing pt1

 

Rotation of the pump is counter clockwise facing the gear

Flat face fittings(ORFS) do not need to be all that tight to seal, the oring is what does the sealing
is the fitting rusted? or someone cross thread it?
take a small hammer and a larger hammer -- use the large hammer to "back up" the fitting on a flat, use the small hammer to hit the opposite flat
rotate to other flats if possible
some PB blaster will work well to help loosen the rust -- the vibration and elongation of the nut should loosen it

be sure the nipple cups are straight -- if you used one of the special sockets, then place it on the cup and look into the end to see if the nipple is centered
Install the pump and rails, then do one last air test -- should be zero air leak

 

You are using two wrenches to try to remove that fuel fitting aren't you? The backup wrench is crucial or you absolutely WILL twist the fuel line.

A catastrophically failed STC fitting will crack the rear cover. It will also result in the large air leak that you had. JB Weld might work - worth a try.

If you don't "pre-cut" the silicone seal at the corner of the HPOP cover and the rear cover, you will stretch the silicone seal from the factory when removing the HPOP cover ..... and then it will tear. It may be VERY hard to get it to seal upon re-assembly. Be sure to use the correct silicone at the corners when you do put it back together to give it the best chance possible to seal.

 

When you say precut the silicone seal where the hpop cover meets the rear cover is this assuming i am reusing the same seal to reinstall the cover. ?

if i use a new seal , would it then be , remove discard clean up old rtv ,replace with new rtv and new seal ?

Thanks

 

Good job on the test setup
the pump has individual independent pistons -- single stage
so each turn should have been equal
The only part that is common between the actions of the pistons is the shared cam lobe for a pair of pistons
that would explain why you have two that pump low volume -- worn cam lobe

Good to test stuff like this to understand why there is a problem
since you already have a test setup, I suggest more learning by testing the replacement pump
would help to loosen the gauge fitting a little so it leaks down faster

 

+1 on nice job.

Remembering a past discussion here where a vendor scoffed at the concept of a weak HPOP (they only believed in a good or bad HPOP, no in-betweens) ......... looks to me like this is an example that would fit in the weak HPOP category.

 

Not much of an update more of i did a little tinkering and look here are some pictures ( waiting on parts to arrive)

took off y pipe heat shield to see how bad the rear cover was cracked that 13mm bolt on the head was a major PIA
its only slightly cracked i taught it i might explain the oil on the right side of engine all over the starter but i dont think thats the cause.
should l use jb weld metal putty stick to apply over crack or use RTV.

made more test equipment out of my old stand pipes . i basically took the top part appart and welded the hole shut. so when i put the oil rails back on and stand pipes back it it will isolate the branch tubes . i dont think anything is wrong with them but hey while its appart why not test it.

also took the other end of the broken stc fitting welded a nut to it so i can put on a air fitting like this i dont need hpop to test.

took out the suborn fuel line and got the fitting loose had to put it in the vice cause it wouldn't budge.

Also when taking apart the fuel cover where the pressure regulator resides i broke one o the lower screws in the body, had to drill it out and tap it out. crooked but seems to work.

also i am debating whether i should rebuild turbo its a reman from 2014 and all seems good with it it made more pressure (28psi ) than the last truck i had its more of while im in there kinda deal but again not sure is it money down the drain.

Thats pretty much it for now.

 

Glad you are taking the time to understand how the system works and testing each part

The silicone in my signature would be a good choice, it has good adhesion outside of a joint -- but Kubota has a better suited sealnt for your situation I would prefer -- I do not have the part number handy, but it is the "runny" sealer -- Kubota only offers the two types -- Both are premium sealers

 

Do you find those anywhere else than a kubota dealer ?

If there is one close by i will ask what they have thanks

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When I was a kid, I patched a cracked oil pan. I used a 2 part epoxy, put a good layer down about 1" bigger than the crack, then put a layer of tinfoil, then another layer of epoxy (kind of like layering fiberglass). The oil pan never leaked. But, idk how hot the back cover gets or if the heat back there will effect epoxy. I do know epoxy gets hard as a rock when mixed right.

 

LoL, dont buy from amazon, I just looked it up and they sell for $45 for the tube
more like $28 at the dealer

Found the part number: Kubota 70000-74000
surface has to be clean, this would make a skin on the outside of the crack, put on a couple of layers with your finger

 

I order all my Kubota parts from Messicks...good prices and good service. $12.46

Kubota #70000-74000 Semi-Drying Grey Silicone Gasket, 3.5oz

A synthetic rubber visco-elastic sealer that is semi-dryingApplications include sealing transmission case covers; motorcycle cases; timing chain cases; side covers; 2-piece cylinders; clutch housing bolts and oil filter mounting surfaces3.5 oz.

www.messicks.com

 

So Update , Received my "new remaned " pump from Ford today was happy things could start moving along . Out of curiosity i tested it to make sure it was ok , seals are new , udated stc fitting installed , pumps looks ok.

i primed the pump and fitted it with the pressure guage just like my last video , Lo and behold ...... does the same thing as my old pump , 2 "strong strokes" and 2 "weak strokes" .

What are the odds of this pump being bad also ? also if it is indeed bad how do i prove this to ford so they can send me another one?

toughts.

 

Well, that is interesting
is it possible that there is air trapped in one of the banks?
since one bank is straight down and the other is to the side

I know this is asking a lot, but could you fashion an elbow so the pump could be righted?
possibly using a hose to connect the funnel to the port

I dont think any one else has tested one like this, at least I cant find any on the tube
I would be temped to put the pump in a container of oil and run it with a drill to force oil thru, and expel the air
maybe then the turning test would be more accurate?
it speaks that the old pump may be good after all? and your problem is elsewhere

So many questions

 

I will test it further , so far stc was blown so i think my air leak was there.

i plugged both my stand pipes and tested the branch tubes no leaks at 120psi.

Might have one seeping injector but so far everything else sounded ok.


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