Wow, I'm surprised no one yet knows where the fuel is draining to. Maybe I'm in the wrong forum?? :bump:

 

so you are saying that you removed the fuel filter cap while the truck was off and it drained?

 

yes....exactly!

 

I did the balloon test, with confusing results. I expected to see some air from the drivers side bank but I got nothing from either.....

 

and what do you think happened? the fuel went down into a cylinder?

if that was the case then you would have a hard time starting the truck with a cylinder filled with fuel.

did you think that maybe it went back to the tank?

 

It crossed my mind, but I didn't think it was possible for the fuel to return to the tank unless there was pressure in the fuel line, i.e. engine running. Am I wrong

 

theres nothing preventing it not to. the lift pump on the rail there is just a straight through piece, nothing holding fuel back.

i would assume that the fuel just returned to the tank and that sound you were hearing was just pressure from opening the cap

I have been wrong before but without you having any smoking, running, rough idle, lack of power from the truck it doesnt sound like you are having an injection issue.

like i said before if you were having fuel pass through an injection and fill a cylinder you would have a very hard time trying to start the truck with a cylinder totally filled up with fuel, you know?

I know because it happened to me and the motor was just totally locked. FYI if you do think it is going somewhere you can pull each glow plug out and see if any are wet. that there would tell you that fuel is going into places it shouldn't

 

I have been wrong before but without you having any smoking, running, rough idle, lack of power from the truck it doesnt sound like you are having an injection issue.

Those are my exact symptoms, I had said it earlier, but I left out the details as to what exactly the typical symptoms are. To clarify I have skipping (missfire) really rough idle, lack of power, etc. It seems to smooth out at higher RPMs and at the beginning of this issue last week the truck ran smoother when it was warm, now since this this happened with the really rough idle and missfire it runs and idles better when it's cold.:dunno:

I understand what you are saying about the fuel and it being difficult to start. Strange thing is the fuel bowl doesn't drain when cold, but once it's warm it empties right out. Between this and the way it idles more roughly when it's warm it seems to be pointing to something that is expanding from heat and opening something up.....I'd really like to just be able to figure this out without having to take it to the dealer or a diesel tech. I think if anything I'll just get the codes pulled so I know wich injector to replace if that is infact what the problem is.

 

getting the codes pulled wont necessarily show you the bad one. have them do an injection contribution test on each cylinder.

it could be making a sticky spool valve, or maybe the injector is just dead

 

Wednesday it's going in to my diesel mechanic for the tests. I'll post an update

 

Fuel pressure regulator stuck open at the secondary filter housing?

What is your fuel pressure when the symptom appears?

Why are you reluctant to take it to the dealer to diagnose your problem?

"Jettisoning" parts at it will be the far more expensive alternative, in your quest to fix your problem, as opposed to just paying for the proper diagnosis that WILL lead to the proper repair, if done by any tech that is familiar with working on these vehicles.

Checking for codes (if any appear), may not lead you down the path you are looking for. I would start with installing a fuel pressure gauge at the secondary fuel filter housing, and monitoring your fuel pressure at idle, and under load at full throttle. Factory specs are 56 psi and no lower than 45 psi. Are you using Ford/Motorcraft filters?

 

Fuel pressure regulator stuck open at the secondary filter housing?

What is your fuel pressure when the symptom appears?

Why are you reluctant to take it to the dealer to diagnose your problem?

I would start with installing a fuel pressure gauge at the secondary fuel filter housing, and monitoring your fuel pressure at idle, and under load at full throttle. Are you using Ford/Motorcraft filters?

Thank you for showing some interest in my problem.
I have not checked the pressure. It didn't even cross my mind, I'm so stuck on the thought of it being an injector, and dreading the replacement of the other 4 since the last 4 were replaced. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge. I do have some fittings and old compressor gauges laying around along with a gauge for compression testing. Can I plumb up a fuel pressure gauge with what I have to test from the port at the secondary fuel filter, or does fuel use something different?
I use motorcraft filters.
It's not that I'm reluctant to take it to a dealer, I'm reluctant to spend more friggin $ on it if I don't have to. I dumped $600 on it at the beginning of the summer for A/C compressor. $3500 on high pressure oil pump and a bunch of other things. And there were the 4 injectors that were replaced 20 months ago. I bought it in December of 2007. This truck is killing me financially. However I did end up breaking down and making an appointment for a diagnosis next Wed (9/9/09).
But if I can find that there is something with the fuel pressure before that I would be very grateful!

 

The sad part about this story is that I've seen it many times. The 6.0 does have a few quirks, and is especially picky about it's oil, and maintenance schedules, but the amount of "mis diagnosis" or $3000+ plus "shotgun approach" I've seen is crazy. Injector failures are common in any diesel, it's the nature of them. You would be amazed at how many of them I put in N14's. Like changing spark plugs.... But, it was not often I saw multiple injector failures on a single vehicle unless there was some other contributing factor (bad fuel, bad oil, overheated, etc,etc) Basically all I'm saying is that sometimes the 6.0 gets a bad rap from people who's bad experiences are caused by poor techs. Why did you have to put a hpop in it?

 

I'm not sure if Im just misunderstanding what you are saying, but $3000 wasn't just thrown at it. It was quoted by the dealer after properly diagnosing it and pulling the HPOP.
The reason for the HPOP being replaced was my guess bad oil. When the mech pulled it out at the dealership I asked to take a look at it. He showed me how the oil was slightly darker and smelled burnt. I asked him if it was from improper maintenance (oil change) and he said "it could be, usually I don't change these out at this low of mileage". ( I had 101,000 at the time) I think he just didn't want to tell me the truth in fear of insulting me. The thing of it is I've been right on top of oil changes along with filter changes in the short time I've had the truck. I only use AMSOIL and Motorcraft. I'm guessing the dude who I bought this from who drove it 250 miles a day commuting in FL didn't take care of it the way he should have, and that really pisses me off, because I take care of everything I own, Its the reason I still have the first vehicle (93 wrangler) I ever owned.......now I just want to get rid of this thing and cut my losses.

 

Oil samples are good for preventative maintenance to see if you have problems beginning to occure. Fuel Dilution, coolant in oil(trace amounts), bearing wear, etc. etc.

If I remember correctly the 2003 trucks have c94 injectors which were problematic to begin with, and the problems are compounded with poor maintenance.

If you have had 5 of the 8 go bad in this period of time, most likely the damage has already been done. It really depends on what you can afford.

If it were my truck, I would replace the other 3 at the same time, and make sure they were the updated designs. Keep in mind everytime you have to tear into the engine, you create another possibility for someone to leave a bolt loose, drop somthing in the engine. etc, etc.

If complete replacement is not in your budget, then I would suggest using good oil, changed no later then 6K miles, (synthetic if possible), a bypass filter system (which can help keep particulate contamination to a minimum), and run injector cleaner through your fuel system on a regular basis. .. Personally I would do these items even if I replaced the injectors just to ensure their long life also.

 

If you have had 5 of the 8 go bad in this period of time, most likely the damage has already been done. It really depends on what you can afford.

If it were my truck, I would replace the other 3 at the same time, and make sure they were the updated designs. Keep in mind everytime you have to tear into the engine, you create another possibility for someone to leave a bolt loose, drop somthing in the engine. etc, etc.

If complete replacement is not in your budget, then I would suggest using good oil, changed no later then 6K miles, (synthetic if possible), a bypass filter system (which can help keep particulate contamination to a minimum), and run injector cleaner through your fuel system on a regular basis. .. Personally I would do these items even if I replaced the injectors just to ensure their long life also.

Thats what I thought, I should take care of the other 3 while they are in there. I tried to get the parts myself but they didn't want any of that so I'm paying for the cost of 2 injectors plus labor for one injector being installed. I think what I will do is let them do the one so I can have a running truck again, then pick up a few more in the next couple months and when things slow down at work over the winter I'll do the install myself when I won't be under the gun and try to rush it.
I could really use the peace of mind of all the injectors being replaced, since the last 4 were done I've been stressing out over the thought of the other 4 goin' out on me..

I only use AMSOIL synthetic oil, but I didn't know oil changes could be extended to 6k miles, I've never gone that long. I am without a doubt going to get either the amsoil or FS-2500 bypass filter very soon.
As far as injector cleaner I use Opti-lube XPD and when I run out since I can't get XPD locally I get DieselKleen
If people aren't familiar with XPD there are comparison test results in a .pdf attached to this post, as well as in the link to Optilube

 

You're good then on oil. I've seen may try to go 8 to 10K between changes. With bypass systems for example, AmSoil recommneds 3x the factory change interval. Ford normal service change interval for PSD is 7500 miles, so by AmsOil Standards, this should be 21K miles!! In most engines, this willl work fine. (I am AmsOil Dealer and have run it my own vehicles for years. Have 1998 4Runner with 350,000 miles on it and change it every 15 to 20K miles and have done so since it had 80K on it. Runs perfect, no leaks, no smoking, and uses about 1/2 qt every 7K miles.

So point is many people try to do the same with the PSD engines, but you can't because of the nature of the injection system. When oil is pressurized to over 3K psi for extended periods, it breaks down, even with bypass filters. It's clean at 7K but it's viscosity has sheared down. For ex. 15w/40 Amsoil Heavy Duty Marine Diesel Oil will shear down to almost 30wt in a PSD after 7k miles, even with bypass filter system. I have independant (not amsoil lab) lab tests that show this, as well as others on the org, that have similar results. In a D_max or Cummins, you can go 20K between changes with bypass system no problem.

So with that said, you just can't run extended drain intervals on PSD's. The bypass is good to help prevent injector issues by keeping the oil clean, but it will not let you extend the drain interval. Just keep that in mind.

As for the additive. Diesel Kleen works well, but I've seen some increased bearing wear when using it as compared to others. But Lube Control makes a good product (FP60) that works very well with PSD injectors.

 

hmm interesting read on the pdf. I'll check out that additive. Not to sound smart **ssed, but if you've been using that, and all of your injectors have failed in the last year or so...... Truly i'm trying to be objective here since the 2003 psd's do have known injector issues, and considering your trucks history, the additive may not a part of it. How long have you been using Opti-lube??

 

The first time I used Optilube was at the end of this Spring. Before that I used DieselKleen from when I got the truck in Dec of 2007. Only a few months later in Feb of 2008 is when the 4 injectors went.
Jan of 2009 is when the HPOP failed.
I did notice an increase in mileage with the Optilube over the DieselKleen.

 

Ok so you've only been using it a few months, and most of you problems occurred during the use of "Diesel Kleen" Maybe I should switch brands??

 

From the first tankful of DieselKleen I noticed a difference...I also noticed a difference after switching from the DieselKleen to the XPD after just one tankful as well. At $1.58 per tankful compared to the XPD at $4.35 I personally think it's well worth the extra $2.77 per tank. But it totally comes down to personal preference, do you want really good well burning fuel that could give you an extra MPG or 2 over the DK or one extra gallon of decent fuel with the DK that still gives you an increase in MPG over untreated fuel.