I certainly have had this trouble...

First thing I found was that you can't use those cheap Parts Store rebuilds, they All Suck! I buy Ford calipers (new & rebuilt from Ford) I find on eBay and keep them on-the-shelf for when this happens (I have a Lot of parts on-the-shelf 'cause I'm keeping this truck forever ).

I've also had great luck recently, when a 2ry old caliper that was New from Ford started dragging in the LR (most often it's a Rear caliper) and I decided to just pop it open and see what went wrong. To my surprise, it all looked pretty good so I cleaned it all up, there was a bit of crud on the seal, and put it back together. It's been fine since the early Spring.

I don't drive my truck a lot of miles but do use it every week, mostly unloaded so the Rear brakes don't get well exercised and are often rusty. I use fully synthetic DOT4, Ample caliper grease on everything, but also live in the NE so I get that Winter brine sprayed on the roads around me...

 

I certainly have had this trouble...

First thing I found was that you can't use those cheap Parts Store rebuilds, they All Suck! I buy Ford calipers (new & rebuilt from Ford) I find on eBay and keep them on-the-shelf for when this happens (I have a Lot of parts on-the-shelf 'cause I'm keeping this truck forever ).

I've also had great luck recently, when a 2ry old caliper that was New from Ford started dragging in the LR (most often it's a Rear caliper) and I decided to just pop it open and see what went wrong. To my surprise, it all looked pretty good so I cleaned it all up, there was a bit of crud on the seal, and put it back together. It's been fine since the early Spring.

I don't drive my truck a lot of miles but do use it every week, mostly unloaded so the Rear brakes don't get well exercised and are often rusty. I use fully synthetic DOT4, Ample caliper grease on everything, but also live in the NE so I get that Winter brine sprayed on the roads around me...

Um... It sounds like you are still having the issue regardless of the source of you are getting your calipers from. You say you are stocking these things on the shelf. That's pretty indicative of a known chronic problem, right? If an expensive OEM new or rebuilt caliper from the stealership via Ebay is only lasting 2 years before it drags or seizes, that isn't a lot of help in solving the issue. I like OEM too but it seems like the real problem here is one of poor design.

I believe the water gets past the boot. Then over a 20-24 month period rust forms in the piston bore above the sealing o-ring. Then as the piston moves in and out, it drags this iron oxide rust and debris through the seal, scoring the piston and slowly deteriorating the piston's ability to freely move until it seizes. I don't know about the piston swelling from moisture and heat or becoming out of round/misshapen. I don't know about improperly cured phenolic pistons reportable used by some rebuilders. I don't know about the Ford rebuilt calipers being done any better or differently or even if it isn't the same rebuilder that supplies the chain parts stores like O'Reillys. But the castings begins to rust immediately after installation and like clock work, they seize and drag, overheat and totally screw the drivability in about two years time. And usually it is at the worst time, like on the way to Florida in a snow storm the first day out. Or the Arizona desert in 105 degrees in the middle of nowhere.

I don't see how throwing calipers at the truck constantly, when you least need it is a solution. Trust me, I get it. I've even considered carrying a full set with me on trips just incase. But I'm already loaded to GVWR towing capacity and the last thing I need is another 140 pounds of brake calipers taking up room when I may not even need them.

I use my truck. I want another solution. See my hopeful solution post #8 above. Ya, I know it's expensive. I'm ok with that. I can afford it. I just hope it is a solution. I think it will be. I just hope SSBC knows what they are doing. They look pretty but will they last. They are fully rebuildable by them or me. I'm going to rebuild all the stock ones and shelf them incase, God forbid I have to go back that direction.

 

I have nothing but problems with this, especially in the wet seasons when the trucks sit

I keep calipers on hand.

 

Heat will cause the caliper bore to warp and moisture will cause the phenolic piston to swell

I have sanded the caliper bore where the tight spots are and also the pistons, with good success

And, ...change that brake fluid -- dot 4 is some better -- but it all attracts moisture

 

New calipers; it depends on the design year; Akebono vs. TRW.

Rebuilt calipers; depends on the quality control of the rebuilder (rust erosion at the piston boots) and their source for the phenolic pistons; suffering from swell and growth due to heat and moisture exposure - the type of phenolic and the cure cycle really matters.

Superdutys also do not get as hot in brake temperature as other vehicle designs, so it's hard to boil off moisture around the piston boots and the slide pins during rain and snow periods.

When someone takes a stuck caliper apart, while the piston may look good, it needs to be measured to see if it has tapered at the open end or is no longer concentric. Technically, if you had a lathe, it could be resized. But without a lathe, trying to do that is tricky. Swell and growth can be a one-time thing or not.

The biggest issue with rebuilding calipers as far as moisture control is at the boot sealing area, and secondarily, in the sealing ring area. The corrosion from past pitting destroys the sealing ability of new seals and boots. You can't restore them without changing the dimension. If you buy a rebuilt caliper, look at it in the box before taking it out of the store. If the exterior looks like it were brought up from the Titanic, ask for another.

People also have a real bad problem not compressing the pistons a little way in; the steelbacks often have nubs on the back to hole the noise insulators in place, which break the pistons.

The other thing that can help with the sealing is to put silicone grease or sealant at the juncture of the piston boot and caliper body, just enough to help seal the area.

 

Those are some nasty pictures, and that caliper should be junked -- but you know it (or many like that) was sent back as a core and some poor soul got it as a rebuild

 

It looks like we posted at the same time.

I have quite a few failed brake pictures; calipers, pads, rotors. It never seems to end. The real ugly are the winter de-icer rotors corrosion here in the northeast. Even I fall prey to that.

Yep, everything gets cored. The better rebuilders of yesteryear would scrap the worst and sell as scrap. Today, when you can find good kits and pistons, you are better off rebuilding your own.

 

OK, Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the fast input. After much study and consternation, hand wringing, and scowling here is what I have decided to do. It isn't inexpensive but I'll lay it all out, no holds barred.

But first...Truck; 2001 Ford F-250 7.3 Superduty 4X4 E-cab Lariet in Toreador Red over black with a color matched Lear canopy. Banks Stainless 5" dual exhaust from the turbo back. Amsoil Bypass oil filtration, Coolant filtration, oversized Ford 6.0 trans cooler, New Ford valve cover wiring harnesses, hoses, belt, Red ELC flush and changeover, Magnafine transmission filter, Racor Fuel filter, Air-Lift rear air bags with wireless remote & onboard compressor, re-engineered 4R100 trans with a Derale air cooled extra capacity pan, Ford Severe Duty intake air filtration system, new Interstate heavy duty batteries, Edge tuner in tow mode, Pioneer 2 DIN entertainment system with navigation, edge backup camera, Bilstein gas shocks and steering stabilizer etc...etc. Cammo seat covers, new paint here and there due to clear coat failure...all new steering from the pump and hoses down, sway bar links and bushings, tie rods, track bar, a Redhead steering gearbox, ball joints...Fuel tank "Hutch Mod" and tank cleaning, Curt front hitch receiver...on and on.

I'm ditching the old school cast iron/phenolic caliper design all together. I have had this problem for years now. I got stranded in Sandy Oregon in a snow storm due to it. I have babied this truck and I plan on keeping it forever. I have added a bunch of extras to it and I use it mostly for towing, household hauling perhaps weekly, lumber and hardware runs, but no daily driving. I tow a 10,000 pound toy hauler with an 850 pound Indian motorcycle plus tools and gear across the country and back yearly, WA to FL with all manner of stops in between. These trips average 10,000 miles each in temperatures below freezing to over 100 degrees and in all sorts of weather. This will be FL trip number 8. I do the Black Hills MC Rally annually too. Lots of trips in the passes towing my snowmobile in a 6' X 12' enclosed trailer. I also tow a small runabout fishing boat at times. I've towed tractors and backhoes, and lots of stuff. It's a tow rig.

I have stock sized tires. It is not lifted (God forbid). I love the 7.3 which I have maintained meticulously for the 9 years I have owned it beginning at 37,000 miles in 2012. We are now at 143,000. I do all the service and repairs. You can see me doing it on my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChQ2eXYtoQxq8Af5IQ1keIw The truck is immaculate front to back. I did all the steering last year. It is rust free. No dents. I have done the Mustie1 (a Youtube guy) underside rust prevention process (Bar and Chain oil cut with linseed oil sprayed from an undercoat gun and brushed into the crevices)

I'm as anal retentive as you can get thanks to 36 years as a city Firefighter/Paramedic. I'm now retired.

That said, I am willing to spend money on this truck since I'm keeping it and it's paid for. The new diesel trucks aren't perfect either but they are in short supply and very expensive. Mine... is paid off. I can make a lot of repairs and improvements for less than the 70-90,000 plus it would cost for a new yet imperfect equivalent. Then you get the DPF, DEF bla, bla crap that nobody wants. No Thanks. I know every inch of this truck. I'm a Ford guy all the way so there is no other option. Ram's make me puke and though my dear old long passed away father (rest his soul) worked for GM, I don't like them. Never have. It's a Ford or nothing for me.

So I just ordered 4 Cryo-Sport slotted brake rotors. In stock, $871.26 with tax and free shipping. These are the high carbon steel cryogenically treated and CNC slotted, precision balanced rotors. They are designed for heavy duty towing applications. Link below.

2001 Ford F-250 Super Duty Lariat Brake Rotors - StopTech Cryo Treated Rotors - Slotted Brake Rotor - High-Carbon 126

Cryo-Treated Slotted PowerSlot rotors by StopTech are by far the the smartest brake disc choice if you're racing, towing, hauling, fleet driving or running over-sized wheels and tires that are taller or heavier than stock. All those conditions create massive heat and this is THE highest quality...

www.buybrakes.com

I just ordered SSBC (Stainless Steel Brake Corporation) "V-8", 8 opposed stainless steel piston, aluminum billet CNC calipers. They are bolt on and come with everything including semi-metallic pads, clips etc. In stock $2355.25 including tax and Shipping via FedEx ($65.00). Link below.

Product Result

SSBC-USA is a leading automotive brake systems manufacturer based in Elma, NY. Our state-of-the-art 18,000-square-foot facility produces drum-to-disc conversion kits for classics, custom 8-piston calipers for heavy-duty trucks and other quality brake components for high-performance vehicles.

ssbc-usa.com

That all amounts to a $3226.51 leap of faith boys. But if it keeps me from suffering under the old technology cast iron, lousy sealing, water leaking and rusty, seizing up and out of round phenolic piston Bullsh&t on one of four failing calipers every 20 months... I'm all in. Money well spent. I'm also flushing the DOT 3 out and installing DOT 4.

And for the moment, as far as I know since I haven't driven the truck today... my brakes are in great shape since I just changed the right front a few short days ago. It lasted the predictable ~20 months. I disassembled it last night and frankly, other than rust under the boot that is supposed to prevent it and a little crud on the piston, there doesn't seem to be much wrong with it. Yet, it was seized up tight. The seal looked great and the boots were intact.

I'm going to make a video for my YouTube channel when I install all this stuff and I'll let you know how it goes over time. Hey, 8 pistons per caliper rather than two? What could go wrong?

 

Since owning my '01 F-250 purchased new and my '03 F-350 purchased new, I have not had a caliper piston stick, a total of ~260k miles, in two decades. I always used new Ford calipers (the '03 at 125k, just because), and the caliper and rotors I have sit on the shelf for decades. Neither truck was ever garaged and suffered the NJ winters.

The factory caliper anti-corrosion finish was pretty good, the olive better than the environmentally sound silver. It's ain't paint.

I wish you luck with that, it's not what I would have done. But you are frustrated.

 

I'm sure due to the cost involved, it's not for everyone. But this design is different with Stainless and Aluminum. If a guy was building or restoring an old car or truck, they very probably would go this route. It is commonly done on restorations and hot rods. The opposing piston technology is well proven and the CNC construction is state of the art. Frankly, I think these trucks, 99/03 are under braked anyway. Towing heavy I think it will be a big improvement. Time will tell. I'm glad you had such good luck because this issue is the pits.

 

Just 'fixed' the front caliper on my Jeep. Without the seals, one piston would drop most of the way in, the other only about 1/4 before it bound up. The cast iron bore was not round, and smaller at the bottom of the bore. Both pistons were pretty close to round and straight, so only a touch up on them. I hand fit the bores back to round, and took the taper out.

Could I have just bought new or remans -- yeah - but would they have been fit any better -- maybe no
I don't think this 'fix' is for everyone - just saying that it is possible.

Got a '79 F250 that has the original calipers -- left has been 'fixed' twice and the right only once
southern Indiana, so the salt is not that bad -- but washing the under carriage is done a few times each winter
The old truck still is in good shape

 

The friction material chosen by Ford was slightly under the norms of coefficient of friction for the industry. Still, it certainly did not have an issue passing the corporate or Federal regulations for stopping distance, fade resistance, or excessive pedal effort. Not under braked. Without ABS, you are wheel skid limited at about 55 lbs of pedal pressure out of the allowable 150lbs at GVW.

The coefficient could have been higher, so the consumer had a better pedal feel, skid limited at about 40lbs. That makes things a little touchy for a potential low axle load vehicle under low mu road conditions. While the friction material was one of the best all-around friction materials developed and saved Ford's tail on the Expedition earlier, it was not my choice for this application due to the lower rotor abrasiveness. The overall brake design runs cooler than most of the vehicle designs out there.

Opposing piston designs have an issue with pedal travel if the rotor runout is not well controlled. Opposing pistons do not offer any increase in clamping force from single-sided caliper piston designs as long as the wet surface area is the same and has a higher propensity for developing issues since there are more pistons. Often with multiple pistons, the piston surface area is larger to make up for the larger brake pad contact area, lower pressure per sq-in if not done. Or you jump to a higher coefficient of friction, which could have been done with a two-piston design in the first place.

While DOT 4 has an initial higher boiling point, it's more hygroscopic, loses fluid boil resistance faster, and ends up the same as DOT 3 in about three years, driven or not. So as long as you flip fluid every three years, you should be good.

The rebuilt calipers rust quickly because most of the time, they are now acid-washed, hydrogen is released, and they absorb oxygen quicker. Tumble abrasion to clean used calipers was a better method, IMO. But it was also prone to leaving some oxidation in the pits.

Stainless and aluminum don't like each other.

Can Stainless Steel And Aluminum Be Used Together?

But you should do fine with these if they maintained their quality. I've not needed to go to this extreme. But then I have a good understanding of brakes.

 

Wow, that's pretty heady stuff right there professor. I mean it. If I didn't know better, I'd guess you may have been a former R&D Vehicle Test Manager at Friction Products. AKA Brakes with the YouTube handle of Too Many Toys. Sir, I stand in awe and I'm not worthy to untie your sandals. But since you reached out, here it goes.

We'll just have to wait and see how this experiment I'm funding for the good of all man kind goes before we toss in the proverbial nay saying towel and call it an unfortunate and expensive misadventure. There have been all sorts of distressful posts across the vast Land Of Internet Truck Forums crying out sorrowful pleading questions like "Does anyone know if they make a caliper with steel pistons?" Does anyone know of a better brake system I can retrofit on my Superduty to get rid of these infernal God awful seizing poorly designed rust bucket calipers?" There seems to be a powerful thirst for something different but no answers forthcoming to sooth the suffering of the afflicted. Amen Amen I say to you, here I am. I offer myself up. I come in peace brothers and sisters to try to give relief to the lowly sufferers of that tragic malady we know all too well as the heartbreak of Ford Truck brake caliper freeze. Yes, yes... there is a such caliper with a steel piston. Yes, yes there is such a system, and I shall be the one to make the financial sacrifice to bring healing and answers to the questions you ask of me. Or should I fail, to bring you the bad news that all is lost.

I know, yes I know about the metallurgical wickedness of dissimilar metals and the evils of electrolytic and galvanic corrosion. I have sinned friends, by owning a good many large yachts. In fact, I just sold one a few days ago, where fighting the effects of current in dissimilar metals never ends. I am now reformed of that expensive habit. I have seen the light Brother I assure you. But I say to you the time is now. We have to try something new. These are drastic times calling for drastic actions. We have to be willing to seek new answers to this evil scurrage which afflicts us now.

So I went to the doctor and I says, Hey Doc I got this pain in my head. He says, what's it feel like? I says, when I bang my head on the brick wall, it hurts really bad where I banged it. He says quit banging your head on the wall.

So I'm going to stop banging my head on the wall and try something else. I have taken the deep dive friends. Wish me luck. I will admit, I have cleared a shelf in the barn where I will lovingly store five, not so old calipers which could be cleaned, rebuilt and reinstalled if this experiment fails. May the Almighty be with us in these uncertain times we are about to enter. A full report to follow.

 

I'm just gonna Say It!

Dude, Buying 4 $600.00 calipers to prevent the changing of them from 2yrs to, what?,,, you're not expecting them to last forever are you? They're gonna need rebuilding/replacement at some point too. Are they going to go Twice as long? 3 Times???

It was many years ago, here on this forum, a guy posted (I'll never forget it) "My new DynaTrac front hubs are the Best $2,000 I ever spend on my truck".

I thought "That Boy doesn't have the sense God gave an Avocado" (wasn't you was it? ~ j/k)

If think about it,,,, my "best things" I ever did to my truck, would be, in-bumper 12K winch, coating the bed and adding a rubber mat, Eaton Ft locker, Whelen "triple-flash" LED brake lights, 30" lightbar in the grille, and the 200psi train horns. I don't have 2K in them All together!

I truly hope you get what you're looking for in a, "Brake Job" with over 3K worth of parts....

Next year, when I'm cleaning/changing my next caliper, I'll be thinking of you.

 

I'm just gonna Say It!

Dude, Buying 4 $600.00 calipers to prevent the changing of them from 2yrs to, what?,,, you're not expecting them to last forever are you? They're gonna need rebuilding/replacement at some point too. Are they going to go Twice as long? 3 Times???

It was many years ago, here on this forum, a guy posted (I'll never forget it) "My new DynaTrac front hubs are the Best $2,000 I ever spend on my truck".

I thought "That Boy doesn't have the sense God gave an Avocado" (wasn't you was it? ~ j/k)

If think about it,,,, my "best things" I ever did to my truck, would be, in-bumper 12K winch, coating the bed and adding a rubber mat, Eaton Ft locker, Whelen "triple-flash" LED brake lights, 30" lightbar in the grille, and the 200psi train horns. I don't have 2K in them All together!

I truly hope you get what you're looking for in a, "Brake Job" with over 3K worth of parts....

Next year, when I'm cleaning/changing my next caliper, I'll be thinking of you.
[/QUOTE]


Haaa haaaaa. Ok. Ok. And you WILL be "cleaning/charging/and changing" your next caliper soon and the ones after the ones after that. You enjoy. Like I said Ralph, I'm taking a leap of faith. I hope it works out. I hear the doubters but you wanna know what I know? Ya'll got opinions on something you have never tried. You got them internet post opinions we all hear about. At least I stepped up and gave it a try. I put my money where my mouth is. And I'll tell you this, if it sucks, I'll be the first to admit it. I'm not going to run and hide. I'm going to come right back here and tell it all. Then we will know but right now... it's too soon to tell. I have nothing to hide. I'll fess up.

Now as for the "sense of an avocado" remark if I may. I'm good at life boy. I have the money to buy $3000 in parts for a brake job. I even have enough to say "oh well" if it doesn't work out. I don't smoke, drink liquor, use mind bending drugs, gamble nor chase woman outside of Mrs Craig9409. And that alone fellows, just those five things gives me even more ready green disposable cash every month to follow my dreams of trouble free traveling in my fully restored immaculate classic 2001 Superduty with the venerable 7.3 Turbo Inter-cooled Diesel. Yes! My brothers and sisters, I am good at life. So don't you fret. I'm taking one for the whole brake burning, caliper seizing, stuck on the side of the Interstate team here. I assure you now, I am of sound mind, body and finances, and I'm doing this all for you. Can I get an Amen!

Now you look here Sonny, I know for a fact you spent way more money on your Bad A** monster truck lift kit and your monster truck tires and fancy wheels. I know your kind Boy. No BS now, come clean. You are one of those guys who needs a step ladder to just climb into that thing. I hope you didn't spend your wife's shoe money to buy em did ya?🤣 Come on now.

 

Now you look here Sonny, I know for a fact you spent way more money on your Bad A** monster truck lift kit and your monster truck tires and fancy wheels. I know your kind Boy. No BS now, come clean. You are one of those guys who needs a step ladder to just climb into that thing. I hope you didn't spend your wife's shoe money to buy em did ya?🤣 Come on now.

OMG Dude! You're too much

No,,, Stock wheels, tires, & suspension. It's a matter economics, not resources when you're looking for a return on your investment (you've heard the saying "having more money than Sense" ~ right? and btw, I too have "FU Money" and maybe partly because I have more Sense ) but, WHO could keep up with your Endless spewing of You and your Opinions??? You have Far Too much time invested in this thread, and I have No Plans in trying to keep up with you and your new hobby ~ I'm OUT!

 

@Craig9409

they spray a de-icer fluid on the roads makes things much safer but it easy everything. You need to look into a wet undercoating like Fluid Film, Woolwax, or NH oil Undercoating. Ive tried all three abs felt Woolwax last Way longer.

My 1999 has the oem original brake calipers, and hard/soft brake lines/connections. I live in Idaho and spray an oil based undercoating that doesn’t eat the rubber or silicone or body mount type material. The Northwest started getting into various de-icer chemicals about 15yrs ago so it’s not near as bad as the East coast. They spray it most months there and even cars 5yrs old are rotted out. The Woolwax builds an oxygen and moisture barrier on the boots and threads of the bleeder valve and brake lines. I had to re-grease my caliper slide pins once in 2018.

the Woolwax leaves an oily residue and I know for certain it’s helped my brake calipers stay good. You can see it around the base of the boots on the slide pins and pistons and it’s done great at not only preventing rust on things but since it stays wet it creates a barrier to oxygen and moisture allowing the piston bore to stay clean and prevent it from sticking.

 

@Craig9409

they spray a de-icer fluid on the roads makes things much safer but it easy everything. You need to look into a wet undercoating like Fluid Film, Woolwax, or NH oil Undercoating. Ive tried all three abs felt Woolwax last Way longer.

My 1999 has the oem original brake calipers, and hard/soft brake lines/connections. I live in Idaho and spray an oil based undercoating that doesn’t eat the rubber or silicone or body mount type material. The Northwest started getting into various de-icer chemicals about 15yrs ago so it’s not near as bad as the East coast. They spray it most months there and even cars 5yrs old are rotted out. The Woolwax builds an oxygen and moisture barrier on the boots and threads of the bleeder valve and brake lines. I had to re-grease my caliper slide pins once in 2018.

the Woolwax leaves an oily residue and I know for certain it’s helped my brake calipers stay good. You can see it around the base of the boots on the slide pins and pistons and it’s done great at not only preventing rust on things but since it stays wet it creates a barrier to oxygen and moisture allowing the piston bore to stay clean and prevent it from sticking.

Thanks, Yes I agree. If you look above in my second post on this thread, it is post #8 of 17 so far, I link a video there which describes the oil type undercoating I have applied to my truck. This was done one year ago. So far it's holding up flawlessly. I will look next spring to see if it needs another coat but so far, it doesn't. I look under the truck often to check for trouble and to do service. I didn't have any rust except the surface rust on my running gear. My body and mounts are all pristine. My truck was used coming out of So Cal. I got it in 2012 with 37,000 miles so basically like new. I lucked out. A lady had it that used it to pull her horse trailer. The bed was not even scratched. It was too much truck for her so she down sized.

In the video link above to a mechanical YouTuber I follow named Mustie1, he lives in New Hampshire right on the coast. He's into old VW's and other older vehicles. He calls it "rusty junk" and bro... he ain't lying. Those cars back there are something else. destroyed. Their frames crack in half. Horrible. I'm near Tacoma, in The Peoples Republic of Washington (sadly) so I go to the mountains in winter to play on my snowmobile but I don't live up there. The treatment I used per Darrin Mustie's advice is a mixture of mostly Bar and Chain oil cut with about 20% Linseed Oil so it will flow through the undercoat gun. I'd bet it is pretty close to what you are talking about. But, since it's oil, I kept it well away from my brake components. It seems to form a waxy coating in time that collects dust and is much like scraping paraffin off if you use your thumbnail. It halted the surface rust on the diffs and springs right now, turning it a gray/black color. I did the frame, and supports, cross members, diffs, springs and underside or back side of the bed and body panels, sway bars and links tie rods etc. It doesn't trap water behind it like hardened spray undercoating that partially releases in big chunks forming pockets to trap salty dirt and water. You can also shoot it inside bed supports and other void spaces using plastic tubing on the gun.

Ya, this caliper rusting issue beneath the piston boots is a real problem severely limiting caliper service to about 20-24 months tops by my experience. My truck is at 143000 now. I've lost count on how many calipers I've replaced so I'm going to go aftermarket. I listed what I ordered above in post #8 along with the costs which is not a small number. But, I'd pay more to be rid of this problem. We'll have to see how it goes. Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it. I highly endorse the oil underside protection. It's not a fun few hours with the undercoat gun and a brush but it works fantastic to protect against the ravages of road deicing sprays and the near constant raining wet of Western WA.

 

The problem is the reman calipers.

As I said before, do as you wish. Me, and other people who understand the issue, don't have the frustration you do.

And I'm going to leave it at that. I don't have the urge to ramble.

 

No problem, thanks for the input.

 

I went threw 14 calipers before getting SSBS front calipers. Being stuck on the side of the road with a glowing rotor and the family and camper is not fun. I bought motorcraft, Napa, autozone didn’t matter in 3-6 months they would start to drag or lock up. Every time it was the phenolic piston. Sometimes just letting them cool would get me on my way. As soon as I put the front calipers on my problems went away. Now I can guarantee the death of the OEM calipers was neglect of brake fluid. I try and flush every year but I know when the kid was born I probably didn’t do it for 5 years, it was nasty. I also upgraded the brakes on the 5th wheel taking even more heat out of the truck calipers. Many of the caliper pistons that seized that would release after a cool down was stop and go traffic with the camper.

 

Now that's what I wanted to hear. I've gotten some flack here (which is fine) about the stupidity of my decision to abandon the OEM design rebuilds that seize up within 2 years. I have replaced the Left rear and the Right front this year alone. I fully expect the other two to fail next year. This is silly and unacceptable. I'm tired of it stranding me on the roadside. I'm not going to carry around four spares. The SSBC's are expensive for sure at close to $600 each but I know the rusting will not happen on these. If this solves it I'm going to be happy as a clam. I'm not taking the money out of my grocery fund. I just want to solve the issue and move on. Thanks for the input and taking the time to post.

 

The quality of the aftermarket has greatly demolished over the decades. With my former company, back in the 90s the aftermarket side started to see the intense pressure by retail stores to reduce cost as they battled one another. Some aftermarket companies like us resisted until sales took too much of a hit. Plants were moved to the south, then Mexico, and then China and India to just stay in the market, trying to keep quality up but labor costs down. And eventually you have no way to reduce labor or facility cost.

There are many sources for the phenolic piston and seal kits now only out of country for the aftermarket. We see that too in electronic parts for alternators. The retail stores don’t care, they don’t pay for labor and the rebuilder pays for the part exchange, which makes them go cheaper.

Some of the rebuilt calipers today take the no cost container ship to China, Vietnam, or India rather than be empty, and then be rebuilt overseas.

it has become a tough world. There are some times I don’t have new OE calipers in stock and I can’t buy good rebuilding parts. When that happens I’ll get a rebuilt from a dealer, but even that today is getting worse.

If I have the time, I hunt for NOS.

 

Yes and with the overseas supply chain back up happening, shipping across the pond has quadrupled in price, fuel prices soaring from inflation, truck driver shortages... it is going to get a lot worse. I don't have time to search for NOS and that I'd bet has pretty much dried up. I'm very fearful for our country's future with these destructive Democrat IDIOTS now in charge. Soon never mind calipers, we'll be lucky to get groceries. I just read we could loose 30% of the truck drivers (trucks haul 70+% of the goods) to quitting over Joe Obiden's recent mandate. God help us if that happens. Democrats never admit a failure, they just keep doubling down on their disastrous policies. What really scares me is the level of economic decline in just the 10 months they have been back in power with their socialist agenda driven policies.

 

I bought my truck specifically because of the Powerstroke 7.3 which at the time, 2001 was held to be the biggest baddest puller out there in a pickup. It is actually an International Harvester Navistar which cut it's teeth in agriculture applications. Properly cared fo it is reputed to be a "million mile motor". So, hands down it's the 7.3 for me. I hope it's the last one I'll ever need. That is why I spend the money I do to keep this truck looking and running like new.

The Cummins people make a great product, but sadly you need to buy a RAM to get one which I would never do again. I had one a few years ago and it sucked. Poor fit and finish, poor corrosion protection, tinny crap. Disposa-truck. My friend just this past week was ripping down the freeway in his 2017 Ram diesel 3/4 ton when it lost power suddenly. He barely got out of the path of a semi truck and onto the shoulder. It was on fire and burned down to the ground before the fire department arrived, it was "fully involved" as they say. The cause of the fire is unknown. Funny for a diesel but it happened. The photos are spectacular. I don't care for the GM trucks either but if I had to choose between the Ram and the GM it would be the GM all day long.

 

I’m surprised no one has mentioned anything about brake hoses failing internally.


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I’m surprised no one has mentioned anything about brake hoses failing internally.
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They can and do, but the caliper would still be free once the bleeder is opened

 

Just done the LF on my Jeep, the caliper bore was out of round and tapered -- remove the seal ring and drop the piston in the bore gently -- rock it different directions and see if the 'clearance' is the same all the way around -- paint the piston with magic marker or the bore with Dykem and look for the rubbed spots

I do have the tools to check the roundness of the bore, but did not use them -- hand fit the bore to the piston, after checking which piston fit which bore first -- both pistons only had small high spots on them near the outer end

Cast iron has a tendency to 'move' with heat and age -- so the out of round condition is kinda expected -- once the metal has 'done it's thing' it is usually pretty stable

Fun Fact: Case 504 engines have a crotch in the exhaust manifold where the ports sweep up to the turbo -- you must use a jack bolt to keep this manifold from warping when it is removed from the engine -- I have seen the manifold move as much as 3 inches, when not supported

 

Just done the LF on my Jeep, the caliper bore was out of round and tapered -- remove the seal ring and drop the piston in the bore gently -- rock it different directions and see if the 'clearance' is the same all the way around -- paint the piston with magic marker or the bore with Dykem and look for the rubbed spots

I do have the tools to check the roundness of the bore, but did not use them -- hand fit the bore to the piston, after checking which piston fit which bore first -- both pistons only had small high spots on them near the outer end

Cast iron has a tendency to 'move' with heat and age -- so the out of round condition is kinda expected -- once the metal has 'done it's thing' it is usually pretty stable

Fun Fact: Case 504 engines have a crotch in the exhaust manifold where the ports sweep up to the turbo -- you must use a jack bolt to keep this manifold from warping when it is removed from the engine -- I have seen the manifold move as much as 3 inches, when not supported

It seems to me that the rebuilder would check the critical tolerances in the rebuilding process and machine accordingly. The end user for the most part won't know what a caliper is let alone check piston bore uniformity and or piston fit defects. I guess this is another reason to go a different way.

 

The OEM calipers on my 2005 f350 the phenolic pistons only ride on the square cut seal. The bore of the caliper means nothing. On every one of my failures the piston was swollen and you could see where the square cut O-ring dug into the piston and rubbed the coating off of it. I found stainless pistons from another OEM car that looked like they would fit the caliper but just went with the SSBS. I do need to do something about the rear calipers to eliminate the phenolic pistons. I’ll either go SSBS or make stainless pistons for the OEM caliper. This is not a Ford issue you go on any forum and you here of these caliper issues.

 

A quality rebuilder would check pistons bores; those went out of business a long time ago. Ford reportedly checked for piston extension and retraction after rebuilding years ago, but they might not today. Nevertheless, that is standard practice for OE quality control of new calipers.

The companies showing rebuilding parts on Rockauto are poorer aftermarket suppliers who do not buy OE quality materials. Basically, the same quality pistons and rubber parts you get in the retail rebuilt calipers. Ford stopped selling those years ago.

The entire brake industry went to phenolic pistons back in the late 90s to avoid the issues of brake fluid boil since people were not changing out brake fluid as they used to. SAE committees recommended it and why you no longer see a schedule for brake fluid flushing in the majority of the USA manufacturers. The Europeans still do, or at least had. Brake fluid boil is mainly an issue of overheated brakes during tow or mountain grades, although it will occur with dragging brakes. Most people who even tow do not see that.

The 1999 Superduty brake design was one of the first majors to go after the issue. Phenolic pistons, brake pads with a heat-insulating layer between the friction material and steel back, stainless steel perforated plate between the pistons, brake pad noise insulators, and rear calipers with heat rejection ribs on the back since they do not see the same airflow as the front calipers. TRW in 2005 dropped half of that.

 

I would wager that a considerable amount of 'rebuilt' calipers, from the auto parts places have binding pistons - right out of the box

 

I would not doubt that. The clearance between the piston and piston bore is critical. Not all seals are square-cut, and not all seal grooves are a simple trapezoid. There is a lot of activity in the design of those areas behind the scenes. There are some seals that are directional.

 

What do you think of the Raybestos?

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I haven't had them in hand, nor do I have the equipment to test them anymore. They have been out for a while, and I was surprised that Akebono and Ford released or not enforced the patent. When Ford commissions a supplier to design and manufacture a product for them, the contract is the supplier will not sell the product to anyone else, and Ford pays for the tooling, so it's theirs. The Akebono logo is not on the Raybestos casting.

Raybestos was a competitor of ours, and they did fine compared to aftermarket level parts, But aftermarket parts, including the ones we sold, are never the same as OE, which was true for us. We made the same parts for both markets. Even though you have the designs and materials, you can't sell that level in the aftermarket; the competitive pricing is too low. And that's the misunderstanding when people talk about an OEM supplier; it's two different worlds. While there is a knowledge share within the divisions, the quality of the manufacturing and the sourcing of the materials cannot allow you to do so. That's not to say, and in general, an aftermarket part will not perform fine. It's just not going to be up to the same standard. At the same time, the OE may be locked into a situation where the aftermarket side can make a change. They are no hard rules.

When I've measured Raybestos rotors in my work environment or tried them personally, they have not matched the OE specs for runout or surface finish. That I still can measure. Raybestos says they do in the advertising. They don't. Does it carry over to the new calipers????? Overall, I don't buy Raybestos unless its a price situation.

Like all phenolics, pistons can have swell and growth for primarily thermal exposure. If you don't fully crosslink the resin, it will relax. It always relaxes to some extent, but if you optimize the heat and pressure during cure, then machine with possibly some adjustment for what will happen in the field should be fine. The proper resin and cure, which for brake pads is 12hrs, should be fine. Aftermarket companies often cut corners there. And with brake pads, it's why you have a customer "burnishing procedure." On the OE side, poor braking on a customer's test drive off the lot would be a disaster.

As Hydro mentioned, the caliper casting can move over time and thermal exposure. TRW did extensive work in the 90s on rotor movement, and so did all of us, friction material suppliers and vehicle manufacturers. Is Raybestos doing better or worse with their castings; no idea. I'm amazed how bad the '05+ TRW calipers are for stuck pistons, which is one of the worst situations I've seen since the 70s. TRW bought Kelsey-Hayes, a prominent Ford caliper supplier in the late 90s, so they should have had a good knowledge base had they kept all the employees, although that rare to happen. TRW was expecting to get the Superduty caliper business; they had the rotors and still do. Although Akebono got the commission for '99 to 04 as they were more responsive to Ford during initial development, TRW thought they were a shoo-in. TRW took back the caliper business for '05, not because they had a better product, they offered a contract that Ford could not resist. And maybe that's why those calipers are so bad. Or TRW tossed too many K-H engineers. They also may have screwed the pooch with the seal's groove design, which is why I pointed that out.

Somehow, Mark Ihm's PowerPoint display from long ago about rotor work got onto the internet. I follow the rules and never put any SAE papers or literature out there. It was a good discussion of some aspects dealing with rotors, although, with any SAE meeting, details are still held back. Some details are valid for calipers too. In the US, stress-relieving of OE rotors was not particularly high in priority until the mid to late 90s. It's kind of hard to do that with the aftermarket price of rotors. And the high cost of some aftermarket rotors is not a sign that it's done. When we merged with Ferodo, we found out they sold parts at different price points; it was the same part, but the pricing was perception. FUBAR.

To Hydro's point;

https://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/tutorial-ihm_1_.pdf

 

The piston pins tend to stick if you don't grease them on the regular. They will stick and not retract so that when you brake you get a hard pull to one side.

 

Not the worst design, but Ford made it worse. The original design from Akebono followed the design they had been using on the Honda Accord prior. So if you look at the Accord caliper of that time, it's the little brother to the Superduty caliper.

By late 1999 there were issues of brake pulsations with the Superduties that saw non-commercial work, like being used for daily driving or travel trailer tows, longer distance between brake applications. The friction material was low rotor abrasion (Ford criteria), and the hubs proved to have too much flex in the flange, allowing the rotors to move around. The rotors, as we know, are deep-dish hats, so any movement moves the rubbing surfaces more than straight-line rotors. They moved ridiculously far when companies tried sheet metal hats with the cast over rubbing discs (Jeep Cherokee, Lincoln TownCar). So with the Jeeps for about a decade, it was 'change the rotors and check if my oil needs changing.

So Job2 or 3 with the Superdutys, the front hubs were changed to a thicker flange, and the front rotors altered to accommodate it. Rotors were also changed to a tighter spec for runout. On the caliper side, Ford wanted the calipers to move sideways easier, thinking that would keep a better clearance pad to the rotor for non-braking rotor wear. So the slide boots went from an internal groove to an external groove. The inner groove sealed the sliding pin chamber better, protecting it from moisture. For the pin outside of the bracket, it didn't matter. Akebono did not want to do that; Ford paid for the tooling change on the front brakes. The rears were kept as they were. In service, the calipers slid sideways too much, opening the brake pad resting width too much and resulting in a longer pedal travel, the most thing people notice about braking effectiveness.

The solution to this was to add a rubber bushing on the lower pin. The tooling was changed, and now Ford did not want to pay for another tooling change. The problem with the rubber bushing is it squeegees the grease away, and in time, adheres to the internal bore, so you get a higher degree of hysteresis. During production, there were two other in-service changes. For a time, the front pads had double-stick insulators, adhesive on the back that when the release paper was removed, the brake pads stuck to the caliper fingers and the pistons. That's great until you need to remove the caliper for whatever repair work. Then you had to install new pads. The other change is good; Akebono designed "wishbone" springs to keep the pads away from the rotors. In the US patent, it says they are for noise reduction. In the Australian patent, it says pad retraction. They would not have been able to get the patent in the US for pad retraction.

I check my pins with every oil change. Unscrew the pin bolts about 1/4" and check if the pins move easily. No taking off the wheel; done while doing the oil change.