No. It should be full but drop as the cooler is removed. But then it still will not be empty.

 

I should of taken a picture, it was by no means empty, but close to half empty. I remember more mess last time and researching thus people always complain about the oil and needing tons of rags.
So could I have another problem here?

 

Changed the cooler in August, had an EGR delete.
Cooler was defective as my temps were higher than before. Sinister Diesel replaced it.
Wasn't in a hurry as I don't use the truck as a daily.
3 weeks ago the truck stops dead on the road.
HPOP only shows 85 psi max in Torque app.
OK, I screwed up. Mustn't have got it clean enough.
Pull IPR, sure enough screen (Dorman) has a hole in it.
Clean IPR put new screen on it, still no pressure.
Put rebuilt GB Manufacturing IPR in and still no pressure.
Research and find to check ICP, it has oil in it. OK bad ICP, when it is disconnected I have 1100+ psi.
Figure since I have 1/3 of the way into dismantling I might as well change the cooler.
Change cooler, clean the valley almost medically clean, including using an oil extractor to clean out the sump.
Reassemble, including a new egr cooler. Also installed a Motorcraft IPR, didn't want remanufactured and a new Walker ICP.
Go to start it, roll it until I hear the HPOP change noise which should indicate it is primed. No start.
Check HPOP pressure, it hits just over 100 psi sometimes. WTF?
Checked fuel bowl, it fills right away with key on, rolling it over with key off, no fuel being pushed into it from bad injector.
Check oil filter, it fills fine with very little rolling.
When I unplug the ICP it still shows over 1100 psi, I thought this would start anyway?
Bad HPOP or?

 

What year is your engine? The 2005 - 2007 HPOP's rarely fail. I always verify a replacement pump works and is primed by submerging in oil before install. What software are you using to check pressures and demand? You already learned the hard way, don't use aftermarket oil cooler, IPR, or ICP. Your ICP connector also may be bad if it filled with oil from the leaking sensor.

 

Sorry, I forgot to say it is an 05 Excursion. But the build date is August 2004 which is before the updates which happened the end of September 2004f from what i have read.

 

I would bet you have the round aluminum HPOP. You can tell by the cast iron HPOP cover and whether or not the IPR is screwed into the cover or the HPOP itself.

Sounds like time for an air test.

 

Well I found why I don't have high pressure oil.
I know this is the old style pump and people are not as familiar with them. Is this common? The entire end of the pump is blown off, stretched the end piece of the case.
Just checking there isn't something else I am looking for before putting it back together.

 

Too much case pressure can cause that or excess system pressure -- internal leakage of the pumping element can overwhelm the case drain
not a common failure tho

I would look for a physical damage on the piston side of the pump -- may have a stuck piston that forced the housing apart
the way these are designed, the piston rides up a ramp -- if something causes a piston to hang there would be a severe amount of endways force

 

It is common enough that the DieselSite HPOP and the CNCFab HPOP's have case modifications for more strength (also provide other critical updates)

That said, the case problem is most likely an effect, from another problem (as Hydro posted).

When you get a new HPOP, get one of the two mentioned above. They are among the FEW aftermarket parts that are recommended as better than OEM. From your original thread, you clearly put in a lot of aftermarket parts. Hopefully they will give you longevity, but be prepared for the probability that the won't (eg - your oil cooler that was installed and didn't cool enough and was replaced by Sinister Diesel).

OP's original thread:

Texas Members

www.powerstroke.org

 

Since you do have the ROUND HPOP, as mentioned above, and you have now discovered that it completely failed (reason for the suggested air test), I'll post a link to your NEW thread, so that this thread will not lack a conclusion ...........

Old style pump - back blown out of it

Changing my oil cooler again because I believe my first one was a dud, stand up vendor replaced it no problem. After changing the cooler my temps were as high or even higher than before. I just want to make sure there isn't anything else that someone might know is causing this, because as fun as...

www.powerstroke.org

Also will attach a good document that appeared in the "Machinist Forum".

 

I wouldn't say people are not as familiar with them. The case blowout has happened, but it is not as prevalent as the ball bearing blowing out.

You don't have pictures of the ball-bearing port in this post or over at FTE. Could you take a picture of the port to see if it's a ball bearing or a plug?

 

Slipped my mind about the swash plate being able to rotate inside the housing
when the ports are misaligned, the pressure in the pump cylinder can skyrocket
and that would push the end out of the pump

A really poor design by Ford on the pump
the swash plate assembly is only press fit into the housing
a locating dowel would have been needed, but they chose to cut cost

Axial piston pumps are used in many applications and most of the designs are good
I am sure Bosch or Rexroth or Eaton would have told Ford this design had potential failure points

 

Siemens designed and produced the original HPOP

From MotorTrend magazine:

High-Pressure Oil Pumps: Volume, Not Pressure
Instead of a conventional injection pump, HEUI systems use a high-pressure oil pump. A Bosch high-pressure oil pump (shown) graces the 7.3L Power Stroke. The seven-piston, swashplate pump is geardriven and externally mounts to the front cover at the front of the lifter valley (its drive gear isn’t timed to the cam or the pump). A Siemens high-pressure oil pump sits at the rear of the 6.0L, and within the crankcase itself. It isn’t timed to the engine and is also a seven-piston, swashplate-style pump.

HEUI - How High-Pressure Oil Injection Systems Work

For those of you who haven’t spent much time around the Power Stroke name, the first 14 years of its production (the 7.3L and 6.0L) utilized a hydraulically act

www.motortrend.com

From Driving Line:

6.0L Hard Facts

Production:	2003 to 2007	Valvetrain:	OHV, four valves per cylinder, single cam
Bore:	3.74 inches	Injection System:	Siemens high-pressure oil, direct injection
Stroke:	4.13 inches	Injectors:	Siemens hydraulically actuated, electronically controlled (under valve cover)
Displacement:	365 ci	High-Pressure Oil Pump:	Siemens swash plate, axial-piston pump
Compression Ratio:	18.0:1	Turbocharger:	Garrett Variable geometry GT3788VA
Block:	Cast-iron	Intercooler:	Air-to-air
Rods:	Powdered-metal	Emissions:	Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR)
Pistons:	Cast-aluminum	Horsepower:	325hp at 3,300 rpm
Heads:	Cast-iron with four 14mm head bolts per cylinder (with sharing)	Torque:	560 lb-ft at 2,000 rpm (’03-‘04) to 570 lb-ft at 2,000 rpm (’05-‘07)

History of the 6.0L Power Stroke

Get all the gritty details behind the Power Stroke that replaced the esteemed 7.3L.

www.drivingline.com

 

The ball bearing is intact.
I already have a remanufactured pump from GB (I researched the crap out of them, since Ford had none in stock in Canada, and Fords is remanufactured too) sitting on my bench that I had ordered in case at the start of the week.
What is interesting is that there is no ball bearing in it, they have put a set screw in. So they did an "upgrade" when rebuilding I can only hope that they doweled the swash plate, I am not holding my breath on that.
This is in one of my 05 Excursions that doesn't see 10000 miles a year. I will take the chance that this is a good pump, I do believe it has a 24 month warranty. So hopefully they make a good product.
I attached picture of the new pump too.

 

One would think that if GB upgraded the HPOP, that they would advertise it as such - with a list of what was upgraded.

Diesel High Pressure Oil Pump - 2003-2004 Ford 6.0L Power Stroke - AP63625

Alliant Power AP63625 Diesel HPOP for 03-04 Ford 6.0L Power Stroke. Remanufactured for reliability. Fits various Ford Super Duty models.

usdieselparts.com

 

Yes, they have a very nice website and have been around since 1986. They do not sell directly to the public that I can see. I called their tech support line after reading the info you guys supplied, but of course it is Saturday. I will probably follow up next week as I am curious if I have another ticking time bomb. When I do my other Excursion I will probably convert it to the new style pump. Can you confirm whether I have to take the rear cover off to change the oil feed tube to the head? That one will be body off, I am tired of the sore back and bruises on my stomach working on this one. If I have to remove rear cover that still mean separating the engine from transmission. Then I will seriously consider just putting a Cummins in.

 

I doubt there are more than one or two volume rebuilders in the market, with many private labeling them.

Franklin Power Products, the company that rebuilt my engine under Ford Motorcraft was the Ford rebuilder of the pumps and probably other retailers a decade ago and earlier. Not a whole lot of confidence in those.

 

This is why I wont even consider owning one of the oddball 2004 or 2004.5 6.0L PSD's. Made the mistake of buying a "2004" model F250 one time and it was a weird mix of some early engine parts and some later engine parts. A real PITA to find engine parts for. Ended up building a 2006 engine from bare block up and it is now a reliable strong running F250, even six years later. It's only code is a FICM mismatch because we used the newer FICM with the older PCM/ECM but it runs great.

 

Well I guess I will respond here instead of starting a new threa

Well unfortunately I have a "2005" Excursion, but it was built in August of 2004. I am just lucky that way. Wait, that made me just go check my other 05 Ex, built 09-04. Yay, I have 2 of these POS. That one will be body off when I do everything and I will upgrade to the new pump if I don't put a Cummins in it.

 

The branch tubes must be changed out, plus some other "stuff". The official position is that the rear cover must come off. IIRC there is a thread where someone wrote up a procedure that did not require that. Hopefully someone remembers it.

I think I saved a link to it somewhere, but finding it will be the challenge.

 

Convert a late 04 HPOP to an 06-07 HPOP:​

New Branch tubes​

HPOP cover plate​

New style HPOP​

Updated STC fitting​

y pipe heat shield​

If it were an 03 that you wanted to convert you would also need new rocker carriers.

Got a new project - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

6.0L Power Stroke Diesel - Got a new project - http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc337/tonyyoungblood17/6374982B-73AC-4A58-87B6-C062C279A004_zpsf17f4vze.jpg (http://s525.photobucket.com/user/tonyyoungblood17/media/6374982B-73AC-4A58-87B6-C062C279A004_zpsf17f4vze.jpg.html) Me and Julie took a...

www.ford-trucks.com

In the thread linked above, one of the guys posting up stated that the later HPOP did not fit well in his '03 year model. According to him, the 05 pump being slightly wider, will be hard against the wall of the pump cavity. I am not 100% convinced of that, but I don't plan to ever get involved in any such project!

 

Hey, it is running with new pump. Good PSI.
Since I have all the experts attention on this thread I will not start a new one for this problem, or maybe I should lol.

Why is there coolant leaking out of my bellhousing? Saw it was dripping, remove bottom rubber inspection cover, steady leak of coolant coming from inside the bellhousing.

 

Hopefully it is running down from the top of the motor from say a heater control valve or egr coolant line and not a rear freeze plug

 

That is my concern. I don't think there is any way into the bellhousing from the top.

 

Check that short hose on the EGR delete tube

Really nothing inside the bell housing that connects to coolant -- but there are the valley drains at the top of the block

 

Its most likely j tube short hose by turbo or oring end of jtube in underside of intake manifold,mine did same thing mainly down starter side of motor. But the sides of the lower belhousing have slight gaps on some 6.0, and as it runs down some will actually get into the bellhousing threw there then apear to be leaking out of the bottom of the bellhousing.

 

OK as Bismic says you guys like closure, I will try and revisit this next week. I have been doing all this as I was supposed to tow a boat 1600 miles, last week, to Florida. Hopefully next after I finish prepping the boat and I am sitting off the coast of Tampa I will sit down and add some input I think might be helpful to others that find this post. The truck has almost 300 miles on it, took it for a good tour and it is running good.