[bismic]

I used the Amsoil site (and Exxon/Mobil site) for a couple real world examples of 0W40 viscosities.

 

[Kaakau620]

I used the Amsoil site for a couple real world examples of 0W40 viscosities.

Science IS fun!

 

[kbnw15]

Looks at grenade, pulls pin and rolls it into the room

Hey look an oil debate, you know Amsoil is the best right?

LOL

(I know Kaakau beat me to it but I'm here to entertain myself haha)

 

[LongHood7.3]

Never fear... for Heavy is here... OP and him are old friends for sure... 😂 😂 😂 😂

 

[Heavy_GD]

Lest we forget about the beloved archoil gangbang

I used the Amsoil site for a couple real world examples of 0W40 viscosities.

 

[Heavy_GD]

Never fear... for Heavy is here... OP and him are old friends for sure... 😂 😂 😂 😂

 

[LongHood7.3]

You gonna have to pull out Hulk Hogan gifs for this smackdown? 😂

 

[Heavy_GD]

nah, macho is the only way

 

[LongHood7.3]

nah, macho is the only way

Just don't let him get up and we might keep you in power over us 😂 😂 😂

 

[WXman]

0W40 oils shear down faster. It's not like they are perfect either. Perhaps better for REALLY cold climates, but to be used at shorter intervals.

 

[bismic]

That was mentioned in post #2

 

[jetjock15]

Didn't the OP say that the truck was a 2005? Don't be giving him information based on the "new and improved" 6.7 or 6.4. Either way the book on the 2020 6.7 only specifies 0W30 for extremely cold climates. (Like the North Pole) This is from my 2020 owner's manual for the 6.7 diesel.
View attachment 801694 View attachment 801695

I'm still standing by my opinion unless you can show me in the 2005 diesel supplement specifically for the 6.0 engine. I checked. Ford no longer lists 2005 model year on their website for owner manual download. If Ford engineers did not specifically recommend it Don't use it. I'm just trying to save the OP some grief.

Did the original post get deleted? First post I see is you asking a bunch of random questions. Is this thread a part 2 to something else? I’m lost

 

[Heavy_GD]

Did the original post get deleted? First post I see is you asking a bunch of random questions. Is this thread a part 2 to something else? I’m lost

He went off the rails here:

https://www.powerstroke.org/threads/my-new-ride-scared-but-happy.1408099/page-3#48

 

[Runthatjunk]

My last "plea"!! ............... Please make that nonsense stop.
In a 0W40 oil, the W does NOT mean WEIGHT!

A 0W40 oil IS a 40 weight oil - VII additives are engineered and added to a base oil to make it so!
Look at the number AFTER the "W" for the weight, not the one before.

And for the record, I hate to see the terms thick and thin applied to an oil. We need to stick to the facts (ie physical property numbers)! Oh well, it is what it is.

It is CLEAR that you do NOT even know what the kinematic viscosity values are for a 0W40 oil....at any temperature!

SO, please note a few facts -

• A 0W40 oil is going to be around 400 (maybe up to 500) centistokes (cSt) at 0 degrees C (32 degree F). ie NOT thin!
• A viscosity of 400 cSt is thick, and it will get thicker when (if) the temperature drops!
• The oil viscosity value at 32 *F is STILL 20-25 times higher than what it will be when the engine gets fully up to temperature.

Thinking that an oil will be "too thin" at cold temperatures is absolute silliness. The lowest viscosity of an oil (when it is most thin - as you put it) will be at engine operating temperatures.

If oil is going to quickly drain off of internal engine surfaces, then it will do so IMMEDIATELY when a HOT engine is turned off. Clearly oil will drip off of the internal surfaces when the engine is shut down, but not such that it becomes a significant problem (obviously)!

In fact, some real data: SAE definition of 40 weight oil viscosity (ranges):

• At 212*F (100*C, ie standard engine operating temperature): a 40 weight oil viscosity will be between 12.5 to 16.29 cSt
• At 104 *F (40*C, note that this is COLDER than engine operating temperature): a STRAIGHT 40 weight oil viscosity will be between 28.6 to 35.4 cSt

WOW - Oil viscosity INCREASES as temperature drops!!

So at 32*F (0*C) the multi-viscosity 0W40 oil is at a thick 400 (ish) cSt.
At 104*F (40*C) the multi-viscosity 0W40 oil is at a thick 75-85 cSt.
At 212*F (100*C) the multi-viscosity 0W40 oil is at a PROPER 40wt 14-15 (ish) cSt.

SO - as things BEGIN to heat up inside the engine, the oil "thins" from its thick starting point (say 400 cSt at 32*F). A 0W40 oil is STILL going to be over five times as thick at 104*F when compared to what it will be at engine operating temperature! This is BECAUSE the viscosity index improving polymers are working as designed! As temperature of the oil increases more, the oil viscosity reduction rate (thinning) slows way down so that it lands perfectly in the 40 wt oil range at engine operating temperature! Viscosity vs temperature is an exponential relationship.

Isn't science fun!

If an oil provides a viable film at engine operating temperatures (viscosity and film strength properties), it is darn sure going to do so at temperatures below operating temperature. Why? Over simplified, but the answer is because it is thicker at colder temperatures!

ALL of our engine oils (including 0W40) get thicker as they cool down from engine operating temperature to ambient temperature! Just because it is a multi-viscosity oil doesn't mean that it violates this physical FACT. Science doesn't cease to exist in a 6.0L either.

How in the world can you post that "stuff" when you do not have a clue regarding the true information. Post this on BITOG (or Noria, or Machinery Lube) and get laughed off of the forums!!

Actually I do have a technical knowledge of this stuff, I just do not talk about that background. People tend to gloss over information that is too technical!

Facts posted only for the "open minded"!

@bismic

Just curious, don't know if you would have the data, what happens to the viscosity between 0w40 and the 15w40 as the temperature go north of 212? I would imagine it's not uncommon for a lot of 6.0s out there to run significantly hotter on a regular basis due to subpar or clogging oil coolers. If you already posted info that says this my apologies. I'm guessing the 0w40 would do better as their synthetic, but don't really know

 

[jetjock15]

@bismic

Just curious, don't know if you would have the data, what happens to the viscosity between 0w40 and the 15w40 as the temperature go north of 212? I would imagine it's not uncommon for a lot of 6.0s out there to run significantly hotter on a regular basis due to subpar or clogging oil coolers. If you already posted info that says this my apologies. I'm guessing the 0w40 would do better as their synthetic, but don't really know

All else being equal the one with lower spread has less modifiers and would hold properties better. But the 0W40 is synthetic so it will have some superior properties. Oil doesn’t even start to break down till 280ish and go well north of that. Mobil had a claim once it could hold together till 500. When I worked in that race motor shop a lot of customers wanted do talk about this so we had a lot of knowledge based on real world testing

 

[SuperDave23]

• At 212*F (100*C, ie standard engine operating temperature): a 40 weight oil viscosity will be between 12.5 to 16.29 cSt
• At 104 *F (40*C, note that this is COLDER than engine operating temperature): a STRAIGHT 40 weight oil viscosity will be between 28.6 to 35.4 cSt

WOW - Oil viscosity INCREASES as temperature drops!!

So at 32*F (0*C) the multi-viscosity 0W40 oil is at a thick 400 (ish) cSt.
At 104*F (40*C) the multi-viscosity 0W40 oil is at a thick 75-85 cSt.
At 212*F (100*C) the multi-viscosity 0W40 oil is at a PROPER 40wt 14-15 (ish) cSt.

Mark,

Question on your numbers, shouldn't the 40 weight oil be thicker at 40C than the 0W-40 or am I missing something?

Do you have viscosity numbers for 40W at 32F? Should be a LOT higher than 400 cSt?

Tried searching on 40W data and I don't think many make it anymore, could only find numbers on multi-grade oils.

Thanks!

 

[jetjock15]

Interesting when I first started being involved with that shop and off road racing the shop owner sold VR1 20-50 with every motor. After 3-4 years of tracking rebuilds and recorded temps we switched to 10-40 and then 10-30. We had best results with 10-30. And the temps in a race would be 30–40 degrees lower with 10/30 versus 20/50. That would be internal friction I guess just real world data. The overall lower temps helped all the motor systems last longer. Now customers get 10/30 or 10/40 depending

 

[bismic]

@bismic

Just curious, don't know if you would have the data, what happens to the viscosity between 0w40 and the 15w40 as the temperature go north of 212? I would imagine it's not uncommon for a lot of 6.0s out there to run significantly hotter on a regular basis due to subpar or clogging oil coolers. If you already posted info that says this my apologies. I'm guessing the 0w40 would do better as their synthetic, but don't really know

It depends on the viscosity index of the oil, and on the oil base stock as well. In general, the oil with the highest Viscosity Index, will retain its viscosity over a higher range of temperature (typically on both ends of the temperature scale). Each brand of oil is going to be a bit different from other brands - even if they are the same rated viscosity. Generally the oil manufacturer/supplier will provide the Viscosity Index number for their oil so you can get a general idea of how it might behave.

See attachment on Viscosity Index effect.

Also, I believe that you are looking for the HTHS viscosity (dynamic viscosity) number (High Temperature, High Shear). That is not something I have really paid attention to. That really is a bit more applicable to the lubrication inside the engine though, and worth paying attention to!

Why are low HTHS oils becoming more important?

Future-proofing with lower HTHS Afton works closely with OEMs to understand as to how low the HTHS of a fluid could go through completion of field trial activity and in-house testing. Lower HTHS oil demand is expected to ramp up over the coming years to meet tougher emissions and fuel economy...

www.aftonchemical.com

Also, one must realize that the EOT we watch is the coolest oil reading (the temperature sending unit is after the oil cooler).

The highest temperatures our oil can get to (in localized areas inside the engine) can easily be 50 degrees hotter than what we see on EOT. The temperature in the oil pan will be quite a bit higher than the EOT value also.

I measured my oil pan temperature one time after a hard drive and it approached 50 degrees higher than the typical EOT I see on a hard run (which for me is around 210*F).

 

[bismic]

Mark,

Question on your numbers, shouldn't the 40 weight oil be thicker at 40C than the 0W-40 or am I missing something?

Do you have viscosity numbers for 40W at 32F? Should be a LOT higher than 400 cSt?

Tried searching on 40W data and I don't think many make it anymore, could only find numbers on multi-grade oils.

Thanks!

What you quoted from my earlier post is the intended SAE definition of a 40 weight range (that is also why I said a straight 40 weight).

SAE typically gives that range at 100*C (you can find information at 40*C, but it gets "tricky"). The 40*C number I had was originally in SUS viscosity, not cSt and had to be converted.

What I wanted there in that "paragraph", was the definition of the range. That particular paragraph is not intended to be data on a straight 40 weight. I wrestled with how to word that in hopes to avoid confusion.

A multiviscosity oil like 0W40 will definitely behave like a lower weight oil at temperatures below 100*C. (Appreciate you catching that Dave).

EDIT - the SAE definition of 40 weight oil at 40 *C is approximately 625 to 764 SUS. I will double check my conversion calculation to cSt. Again - appreciate you catching that Dave.

Converting SUS to cSt is not always straight forward, the conversion formula changes depending on the range of values AND the temperature. So for now, I used a graph on straight 40 weight viscosity for the number. Correction now made in the earlier post!

Motor oil graphs | Widman International SRL

gráfica típica de la variación de viscosidad de aceite

www.widman.biz

 

[bismic]

Mark,

Do you have viscosity numbers for 40W at 32F? Should be a LOT higher than 400 cSt?

Tried searching on 40W data and I don't think many make it anymore, could only find numbers on multi-grade oils.

Thanks!

Viscosity of a straight 40 weight at 32*F or 0*C will be around 3100 cSt, per graph attached (from the link below). Compare this to the 400 cSt (ish) of a 0W40 oil!

Motor oil graphs | Widman International SRL

gráfica típica de la variación de viscosidad de aceite

www.widman.biz