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Hill climbing power loss...

17K views 25 replies 7 participants last post by  vitalidle  
#1 ·
Hey, everyone! I wanted to say thanks for the info so far. I've been a member here for about 30 min and I'm already sure I'm gonna find more help than I can imagine.

I've searched around a little bit, but it seems those with similar symptoms are missing a few of my key ingredients.

Let me start with the truck...2000 F-250 CC SB 4x4 with 7.3L PSD & Auto tranny with 4.10 gears (I think). I got it about 2 1/2 months ago and don't really know much about the PSD. This one does have the K&N Intake & an unknown brand 4" turbo back exhaust without a cat, but I don't know much about those things other than what I can see.

111,111 miles this morning. Got the oil changed at 110K. Added some MOA and started using the Stanadyne Performance fuel additive just after the oil change.

So...here were are this past week, after the oil change and a full tank of fuel, I drove from my home, south of Denver, to Moab, UT. On the way up to the Eisenhower Tunnel, about 3/4 of a mile from the top, I had a sudden loss of power, I went from 75 to 35, heard a ticking from under the dash/engine compartment, and a pretty substantial shaking like an off balance engine. This was under significant load...not towing, but my foot was in it, we'd been climbing for a while with a little head wind, etc. I got off the gas, moved over and started making my way to the shoulder. Once out of the way of traffic, I started back on the gas a little and was still experiencing the problem. I backed off, pulled over and waited for a few minutes. When I got back moving, it seemed okay, but as I got into it a little bit, trying not to be the guy holding up traffic, it came back. I limped to the tunnel where the road became down hill again, things seemed to return to normal.

Once down the hill, I stopped and bought a new cam position sensor which was replaced, but on the next long uphill, it started again. This continued all the way to Moab...head winds, uphill, anything that caused a significant load on the engine led to this power loss.

On our return trip, after unsuccessfully finding help in town because it was the weekend, we started looking at things more closely, since we were able to more accurately determine when the problem would occur. Thinking there was maybe a harness problem, we added some dielectric grease to the valve cover harnesses on both sides without relief. Then we noticed it...a leak from left high pressure oil hose. There are three puddles of oil now in the valley between the valve covers. The left side hose was "oozing" oil out from under the split loom around it, so we couldn't really identify the exact location, although it doesn't seem to be coming from one of the fittings. I'm currently working on getting that fixed.

So...could a loss in pressure at higher throttles (when pressure it probably highest from the pump) cause failure of an injector(s) or at least a miss, since the problem seems to correct itself with less load? Could that cause the left bank to stop working which leads to the violent shaking? Or is there a deeper cause?

I'm sorry if this is long winded, and I certainly hope this doesn't lead anyone to not read my plea.

Thanks for any help available.

Mike
 
#2 ·
The oil sounds like a possible HPOP problem... seems the o-rings on those things like to leak or actually, just go and poor oil all over the place..

have you checked the oil since you started having these issues? also -- has the fuel filter been changed recently??

Those are my initial impressions, but I will let those with more knowledge jump in and see what they come up with...

good luck and WELCOME to the .ORG!!! :welcome1:
 
#3 ·
have the codes pulled and see what they say? if the oil lines your problem i would imagine you would throw an icp code
 
#4 ·
OK...I know it has been a little bit since I posted this, but I appreciate anyone who responds.

Since the initial post, I have replaced the left bank HPO hose and the o-rings at both fitting off the HPOP. Oil leak has stopped and seems to be holding well (no thanks to my outstanding wrenching!).

I had the codes pulled today by my favorite mechanic and got the following:
- P0733 - Incorrect gear 3 ratio
- P1211 - Injector Controll Pressure higher/lower than desired

He ran what I believe were buzz tests and contribution tests, both of which passed.

The truck was getting me around town just fine, so I wasn't real concerned even though I could still replicate the problem while entering the highway going uphill with my foot totally in it. Then last night, the problem started again while driving down the road. I had the cruise set at 74-75 mph and was going up a slight incline and the ticking began under the dash (or so it sounds). Slight pulsing surge felt in power. Got off the cruise, cleared the hill, back to normal. Next hill, slightly more incline, power loss, down to 40 mph from 75, and I had to get off the highway at the top, let the engine settle a little before starting downhill with what seemed to be recovery. Now I'm concerned because this seems to be more normal driving conditions making the truck slightly less reliable (no towing, no load, just me & the sleeping baby inside with only the stoller in the bed).

We checked the fuel filter during our trek to Moab and didn't see any problems, although it was not changed at that time. Is the in-tank filter supposed to be changed on a regular interval, or is it typically ok, as long as the fuel is decent? Oil level checked after the HPO hose/fittings were taken care of and seemed to be fine.

Thanks again, in advance for any advice.
 
#6 ·
Thank you, sir. I appreciate the response. Now what would you recommend for my next course of action? I think I would prefer avoiding dropping the tank if there is something on the framerail that I could do. Is there a test for the pump? Or would it be better to just replace it?
 
#7 ·
Also, with a quick look at PartsAmerica.com, I'm seeing a Master Electric pump for ~$150 and a Carter pump for ~$200, the a Bosch for ~$467 and a Motorcraft at ~$414. This seems really high for a framerail mounted fuel pump. Am I out of touch? Is this really what they cost?
 
#8 ·
Do you have a boost gauge??? Sounds a little like fuel cut...you MIGHT be getting too high in the boost and the computer is cutting off fuel to keep the bosot down. You check the Fuel filters also? Could be crap in the fuel bowl and it's clogging the inlet to the bowl. Either way...sounds like a fuel issue.
 
#9 ·
I don't have gauges yet, unfortunately. I'm wondering if this would be a fuel issue if I don't have any problems puttin' my foot in it off the line. Still a load, still at high boost, no problems until I'm at highway speed...or at least that I've seen so far.
 
#11 ·
if it where me... since you have good high preasure oil and are still getting the injector controll preasure out of range code i would replace the ICP (injector control preasure) sensor. its kind of spendy but that should be the only thing giving you the icp code if the high preasure oil checked out.
 
#12 ·
Nope. I believe the truck was run before I got it with a chip/tuner/programmer of some sort. Why else would someone invest in the intake & exhaust if they weren't running some sort of performance program?!?! And there once was a 5er hitch in the bed...gone prior to my arrival, one can only assume.
 
#13 ·
Annother thing you might check is if it had a chip and the previous owner removed it before he sold the truck you might check where the computer and harnes are conected togather and make sure they are tight. I belive it takes a 10mm bolt.
 
#14 ·
Anyone believe there would be reason to try clearing the codes now...and repulling them? maybe after forcing the power loss position again? Would the remaining codes sitting in the computer cause a continued defueling at similar conditions even if there was not actually a problem? IE: Since I have replaced the HPO hose/o-rings, could the computer be defueling under a little load because it believes there will be a problem after there was one before? I really don't know a lot about PCMs.
 
#15 ·
The reason I asked if you had a chip or programmer is somtimes you will get the 1211 code because the high pressure oil pump can't keep up with the truck tuned up. I thought maybe it could be surge also, but that usually won't cause you to lose power like you have said. I would check fuel pressure like marc said and go from there.
 
#21 ·
Sounds great. I really appreciate the advice.

Just for clarification, since I'm pretty new to diesel mechanics & really new to the PSD, I'm checking the fuel pressure of the framerail mounted fuel pump, right? Does it need to be checked during normal operation or would a reading at idle tell me what I need to know. Also, is this something I should be putting a gauge in the truck to monitor? or is this a one time thing?

Thanks so much!

you gona want the fuel gauge inside the cab and test it under the condition you are having the problem. I think you can rig something up on the chrader valve. it looks like a valve stem on the fuel bowl...
 
#17 ·
Sounds great. I really appreciate the advice.

Just for clarification, since I'm pretty new to diesel mechanics & really new to the PSD, I'm checking the fuel pressure of the framerail mounted fuel pump, right? Does it need to be checked during normal operation or would a reading at idle tell me what I need to know. Also, is this something I should be putting a gauge in the truck to monitor? or is this a one time thing?

Thanks so much!
 
#18 ·
its going to need to be tested in whatever operating condition it actually acts up.... you will need special fittings because there is no schrader valve, you actually have to hook the fuel pressure gauge up in line with the line coming out of the pump. It is never a bad idea to have a fuel pressure gauge to diag a problem but in a relatively stock condition it woudlnt tell you much as an all the time gauge....u have to be getting to a bigger HP area for that to really be something you need..
 
#19 ·
Here ya go: On 98.5 and newer engines: The newest version of the PowerStroke has an electric fuel supply pump. Pressure readings are taken at the fuel rail plugs at the front of the RH head, the rear of the LH head, and at the fuel pump outlet. The fuel pressure should be over 30 PSI, but anything below 50 PSI will cause an injector knock. If the pressure is low at either head, replace the check valve at that head's fuel rail inlet. If it is low at both heads and the pump outlet, check the pressure regulator at the fuel filter return line for debris or a split o-ring. If the regulator is OK, check for a fuel pump inlet restriction as described above. Took that from the internet:thumb:
 
#22 ·
:lol: marc was a little quicker on that one than i was :D edit: I guess theres no schrader valve on the NBS trucks :( and vital has you covered on the fuel preasures you should be running... ima go sit in the corner. :sad:
 
#23 ·
Thanks, fellas! I'm gonna go get lunch, and try to figure out how lil' ol' me is gonna accomplish this test!!! Might be a while before I get back to this, but I REALLY appreciate you guys sittin' at your computers to help me out.

Take care :thumb:
 
#25 ·
I know it's been awhile...

Just thought I would send a quick update to this since I'm sure there are people subscribed and when I browse, I hate to read open-ended threads. I like closure...what can I say!

I took my truck to a buddy who used to work on our ambulances at work. He drove it around for a week trying to diagnose the problem until finally he was stranded on the same mountain pass I had trouble on. Once he got the truck home, he was able to test fuel pressures and I was only pumping 30 psi even at WOT. He started looking around and found someone had installed an aftermarket fuel filter between the tank and the pump. This filter was dirty, clogged and sucking itself closed and starving the engine of fuel. Once the filter was removed, I was up to 65 psi WOT and the trucks been running great ever since.

Now if I could figure out that pesky front end noise...I guess that's the life of a truck owner. Just another problem to fix!

Again, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank those who spent some of their valuble time to help a guy out. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Till something else breaks...I bid y'all a good night, and Happy Holidays. Peace!

:ford:
 
#26 ·
Good deal! Glad to hear your fixed up:thumb: