[GregWork]

More work, but less money than ready to install filters: (it's an old topic but was just discussing it in another thread- it has been flawless for 40K+ miles)

Fuel Filter &Water Seperator Kit

This is that guide I promised for the fuel filter water separator kit I designed. I added an auxiliary fuel filter and water separator in front of my factory water separator on my 2014 6.7. I used factory style quick connects I found online so this is easy to remove if needed for some reason. I...

www.powerstroke.org

 

[Gatorade95]

More work, but less money than ready to install filters: (it's an old topic but was just discussing it in another thread- it has been flawless for 40K+ miles)

Fuel Filter &Water Seperator Kit

This is that guide I promised for the fuel filter water separator kit I designed. I added an auxiliary fuel filter and water separator in front of my factory water separator on my 2014 6.7. I used factory style quick connects I found online so this is easy to remove if needed for some reason. I...

www.powerstroke.org

So quick connect is not needed in your setup?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GregWork]

So quick connect is not needed in your setup?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes they are needed.
I also bought extra ones in case I broke something on install. Did not need the extra ones.

 

[5.9and6.0]

I’m shopping now for a 2017+ and hopefully they will find a solution to this issue. I guess Ram has went back to the CP3 for 2021.
I would prefer a Ford but this really has me concerned or the fear factor of it’s possible and is happen more then it should.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Ford's 2020 and 2021 trucks are a different pump versus the 2011-2019 trucks.

 

[kbnw15]

I know this happens but I also think most of us here on the forum are in our own little echo chamber at times on this issue. If we get on here all you hear about is the CP4 failures. I would have to guess in all the trucks made in those 8-10 years the failure rate is very low. Does it happen to often? Probably yes. Is it for the most part preventable? Somewhat. If you do the correct maintenance and just make sure you got good fuel I feel like you shouldn't have to many problems. It's not like this failure is as common as head gaskets on a 6.0 or about any problem with the 6.4s.

Still have to agree with the sentiment of screw the EPA and making the fuel not a lubricanty lol.

 

[HeavyAssault]

I wish I could find a reliable source for production numbers for the 2011-2016, and the 2017-2019 6.7L motors. Last I recall what I found was like maybe 500k diesel motors from 2011-2016. Something like that.

 

[kbnw15]

500k produced or 500k had issues? It would be very interesting information to know and would go a long way in easing some of my worries on my truck or making them much worse lol. I agree with most that this is a ridiculous issue to have happening and we shouldn't have to worry about it but I also wonder with as much time as a lot of us spend on here if we aren't just working ourselves up to an extent.

 

[HeavyAssault]

I was referencing overall motor production numbers, not motors with CP4 issues. I did find one post saying that in 2011 alone it was 300k vehicles/trucks produced. You have to shrink that down to vehicles with the 6.7L motor only. Either way it's a VERY small overall percentage of production vehicles/motors that have CP4 issues.

For example: Ford makes 500k trucks a year, 250k with 6.7L motors. Not bad. Then figure say 10% have the CP4 issue regardless of owner induced or just a HPFP failure. That would be 25k trucks having the problem. Using 2011-2019 model years that would be only 200k trucks with CP4 issues. Yes it sounds like a huge number BUT that would be like EVERY PSD.ORG member having a Ford 6.7L diesel with the same CP4 issue. Which we all know isn't the case. Cause if the numbers were really that high the boards would be flooded with people complaining about it.

 

[GregWork]

500K milestone was in 2013. So it’s probably getting closer to 2MM by now.

Ford Has Built a Half Million F-Series Trucks with the 6.7L Powerstroke V8

Ford Motor Company has announced that the 500,000th 6.7L Powerstroke V8 turbo diesel has been installed into a Ford F Series Super Duty pickup – a remarkable milestone for Ford as they continue to be the only company selling a heavy duty diesel truck in the US that relies on a drivetrain that is...

www.torquenews.com

 

[HeavyAssault]

Okay, I made a pretty good guess then over the 2011-2019 years. Let's say for the sake it's 2 million motors out there for those years. Give 10% of that total will have a fatal HPFP experience. That's still 200k trucks with a HPFP issue, not that huge in the big scheme of things. By no means is it any excuse but the numbers are pretty small year to year with the HPFP issue. I'm pretty confident to say that there's less than 10% on average. If you shrank that down to the total number sold by a dealership it could seem bigger but it's still only 10%.

Once again, not making excuses, just looking at the numbers and data as best I can find.

 

[CrazyS0b]

The other thing to factor in is owner induced failure vs part defect percentage. You cant count pump failures due to things like def or gas contamination as they have nothing to do with Ford or the pump itself.

 

[HeavyAssault]

The other thing to factor in is owner induced failure vs part defect percentage. You cant count pump failures due to things like def or gas contamination as they have nothing to do with Ford or the pump itself.

I agree but almost impossible to determine. Which is why I stated:

regardless of owner induced or just a HPFP failure

So if we just accept "HPFP failure" in group as a parts issue or owner induced we can capture the larger %. We would need to nit pick down the actual failure to get to a "True Parts Failure Rate" to get to that "real" % with a +/- of course.

 

[kbnw15]

And if I'm wrong please correct me, we are just looking at the failures in the Fords correct? Isn't this same pump used in the Rams and GMs? If you can take into account their failures also I feel like we may be making a mountain out of a mole hill. The only reason I think extreme maintenance and caution should be used concerning the fuel system on these trucks is the astronomical cost of repair should it, in a very small percentage, actually grenade and ruin the rest of the system.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Yep...add on the other brands the overall number of HPFPs used goes up, hence the overall numbers may look bad but IF the math still shows only 10% failure rate it's pretty small overall.

 

[GregWork]

There are a number of class action lawsuits against Ford for the issue. If that ever gets litigation, we may find out the actual failure rate. I have a quality management background and 10% would be astronomical. My guess is that it is less than 1%.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Same background here. I doubt we would ever see real numbers, but 1% failure to me would be "normal" even with owner induced causes of failure.

That class action noise is so wack. Yes some are going to get their money back plus some, while the lawyers make it rain. LOL

I just wish my Owner's Manual had a misprint that said Low Sulfur Diesel Only. That's a win/win. LOL

 

[GregWork]

So here is a relevant study I found on the CP4 in VW TDI vehicles.

There was a 1.6% mechanical failure rate on 4 model years (2009-2012) for a time weighted failure rate of 16 failures per thousand vehicle years. (~7K failures in ~461K vehicles; over time) [this excludes fuel contamination in another 1K vehicles or 0.2%] So only 1 in 8 failures are owner induced.

89% of all analyzed pump failures were metal debris, 3% were gas/water in the tank (owner/ dealer).
Improvements in the pump design resulted in lowering the failure rate by half. (anti wear coatings/ air purge improvement R0 - R2)

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2011/INCR-EA11003-61863.pdf

 

[kbnw15]

So with this light discussion today I feel much better in the odds of this happening to me as slim and then bordering on none if I keep up my practices of essentially randomly draining the water separator, running my fuel additive year round, and changing fuel filters every other oil change (5k oil change so 10k fuel filters).

 

[HeavyAssault]

@kbnw15 : Winner winner!! I run an additive at every fill up so it's a no brainer for me. I just found a small sized Milwaukee Tools tool chest (or whatever) that I can fit my additives in behind the driver's seat. Easy to pull out for use when fueling, easy to remove if needed for a passenger.

Nice data points @GregWork . Guess we need to weed out that 1 in 8 here ASAP. LOL