[SparkyF250]

I just got done converting mine over to Peak Final Charge. It is CAT ELC-1 rated and seems to be doing a great job. The previous owner was running a yellow mixture, but I was not sure what it was. After all the reading and trying to figure out what was best, I just settled on this one. The one factor that I liked was that you were able to mix it with just about anything, so I did not have to worry too much about getting every little drop of the old out of the system. Right or wrong, I drained the radiator and ran some tap water through the system, then drained it out without pulling the engine plugs. I then added one gallon of concentrated Final Charge and then 50/50 mix to get the levels right. I have been running about 2-5 degrees different in temperatures pretty much regardless of what I do. The highest difference was 9 degrees for about 2 minutes one time.

I will say that the other reason that I did not worry about doing a complete flush was that the previous owner had done a TON of work to this truck before I got it. I am not all sure what was done, but they talked about one of the items being the EGR cooler.

You really need to pull the block plugs. I installed Fumoto F108N's in place of the block plugs so I only had to pull the starter once. Also since it's impossible to get everything out, your best bet is to do a couple fill N drains with distilled after using tap water. Then you add 4 gallons of concentrate and top it off with distilled. That should get you in the 60/40 range. Since you used 50/50 it would be wise to check your concentration, needs to be at least 50/50

 

[zsargent]

And to add to sparky's and Mhatlen: use only distilled water for final product. tap water is no good with all the minerals in it. so to do it correctly drain the system wit block plugs out, refill with distilled water, repeat the drain. Do that several times.
THEN top off with concentrated ELC (3 gallons I believe), fire it up and top off with DISTILLED water only!

 

[06King60]

That makes better sense. The ford gold was in there for 193k but the oil cooler filter was trash. I got it for 12.50 a gallon so about 95 bucks after paying the tax man. I'll prob go a little longer than 50k but like you say..cheap insurance and some peace of mind as well

Naw I don't think you want to leave it in for 600k. That might be rated for a semi for that but not our trucks. You prolly ought to change it again in about 50k. Relatively cheap insurance, what maybe $75 every 10 oil changes? You could probably test it and run it longer but like I said, cheap insurance.

 

[mhatlen]

And to add to sparky's and Mhatlen: use only distilled water for final product. tap water is no good with all the minerals in it. so to do it correctly drain the system wit block plugs out, refill with distilled water, repeat the drain. Do that several times.
THEN top off with concentrated ELC (3 gallons I believe), fire it up and top off with DISTILLED water only!

Thats exactly the amount of CAT EC1 coolant I put into my truck.

My first F250 I added 3-1/2 gallons EC1 along with 3-1/2 gallons of distilled water. I noticed my coolant temperatures were higher then the Ford Gold by 3-5 degrees. So I dumped about a gallon out of the truck. Then put in another gallon of distilled water only. Saw temps back to 194 and 3-4 delta temps.

The first truck was trash so after I bought another F250 I only poured in 3 gallons of EC1 along with 4 gallons of distilled water. Been running it like this for almost 4 years now.

FYI my first truck was only trash after I trashed it into a 18" pole at 75 mph. But the coolant temps run lower with a lower % of concentrate coolant and more distilled water. My EOT temps have always stayed at 3-4* Delta at that concentration. Water conducts heat better then coolant BTW. Also my truck is never subjected to anything lower then 10* F. so its always done just fine. Plus I'm a bit of a cheap azz and it makes me feel like I stuck it to the man a little.

 

[mhatlen]

You really need to pull the block plugs. I installed Fumoto F108N's in place of the block plugs so I only had to pull the starter once. Also since it's impossible to get everything out, your best bet is to do a couple fill N drains with distilled after using tap water. Then you add 4 gallons of concentrate and top it off with distilled. That should get you in the 60/40 range. Since you used 50/50 it would be wise to check your concentration, needs to be at least 50/50

Sparky is likely going to tell me how stupid I am after making this statement. In his defense hes usually right and I am more often a shlt disturber then I should be.
All that said here it comes:

I am not a believer in Fumoto Hong Kong Fooey valves that are often used in the block drain plugs. I don't like them because of the outlet reduction you have when those are used. It takes a good amount of fluid flow to get all of the debris out of the block itself. Reducing the outlet size is only making the issue worse by reducing the flow that is coming out of those drain outlets.
The bigger those holes are the more fluid that is cascading out of the engine block. I see absolutely no point in having them. I pulled my starter off once and that was to pull the plug out of passenger side. Then reinstalled my starter.

I then took my 3/4" hose and wrapped it several times with a towel so it could be stuffed into the lower radiator hose that feed the water pump without loosing water onto the ground. I also pulled out the coolant tank and thermostat. Brought another 3/4' hose to truck for placing in the hoses that went to coolant tank as well as the oil cooler manifold made by IPR for the coolant filter.

I then started truck up with both hoses running to get moving forward with the coolant flushing. The water pours out of both block outlet holes in a big way. Reving up the engine really blows out water with big force and I placed clear 5 gallon buckets under each drain outlet. Reving up the rpm's sent tons of water out of both block drains and any debris was easy to see in the buckets. I also flushed heavy flow through the upper hoses as well as through the heater core lines and reverse flowing through oil cooler manifold outlets.
The water came out with lots of force from block outlets and cascaded over the starter as well. I did this for over 3 hours long after there was no signs of any debris coming out of the engine anywhere. Did lots of radiator flushing too as well as the metal tubing on passenger side valve cover. After I was 100% completed I then pulled starter again so I could reinstall the block plug.

My take is SCREW those damn lazy man valves. I say that because the hinder the flow of water that comes out of the outlets. The starter did not give a hoot whether water was running over it or not. I have done it this exact way on all 4 trucks that I flushed with Cascade cleaner in order to upgrade to the proper coolant.

Oh yea one last tip: Pour the old Ford Coolant on the floor or on the Ford parts counter. If they have a book display or computer I suggest pouring it onto one or both. If you can pour it into some ones desk drawer that would be better yet. Yea thats likely not the most courteous thing I've said but they deserve it for pushing that cat piss on everybody.

 

[mhatlen]

One more note: I am a pipe fitter or to be exact a Sprinkler Fitter in the fire protection industry. I have access to any valve made and EVERY hose faucet at my house is a full flowing globe or ball valve in 3/4". Supply piping that goes to all of my faucets are either 1-1/2" or 1-1/4" piping so that my pressures and volumes are as good as possible. There is no comparison to a full globe valve when compared to a federally mandated hose valve that are sold across the country at every hardware store. The government passed the water saving act back in the 70's that requires every residential hose valve sold has a 5/16" restriction in the neck of the outlet to hose thread. They are used to limit water usage across the country. Trust me there is a huge difference in GPM used between the two.

So I strongly recommend you going to the hardware store and picking yourself up a full flow globe valve in 3/4" NPT along with a hose thread adapter thats MPT x MHT for threading into the valve and being capable of installing a garden hose to it. The amount of water flow is at least three times the gallons per minute.

This will have the absolute best results on the first hose valve connection where the water first comes into the home. As you get further away the plumbing likely is going through the house to all the bathrooms and kitchen and water flow is reduced from all the turns and friction. But I still recommend adding new valves at every faucet location.
I ran water lines through my yard front and back with the use of as big as 2" supply. But that was the water line I ran to my workshops fire protection system. But even 1" will do quite well and you should upgrade every single hose connection regardless.
The absolute best valve for flow is a full port ball valve. Its a straight shot and a 3/4" garden hose will have unreal flow GPM. You can water the lawn in a snap and wash down a driveway in a flash.
Best part you can flush your cooling system better at home then at ANY AUTO GARAGE in the country. Trust me they have the mandated reduced flow valves on ALL commercial businesses.

So go get your water hose valves ALL UPDATED with valves that can actually move water. Goodnight

 

[G8orFord]

While I agree that the valves are somewhat of a restriction, I can say from my personal experience with them, that they are very handy for doing multiple flushes over time. I flushed my system about as well as I think anyone could prior to installing the valves, but you simply cannot get it all in a day or two when it's as bad as mine was. Even with the IPR filter, I was still getting crap out of the block drains after two years and many drains and flushes. It's pretty clean now, but I still see a little stuff when I drain. You might be surprised at what will flow through those valves under about 16 psi of pressure. LOL

No doubt the larger opening without the valve is better for draining overall, but I can drain, strain and refill in the time it takes to remove one block plug, let alone the starter. I don't get a coolant bath either. In this case, I'll take the quantity over quality side if the argument.

 

[Patriot]

FYI You can connect 3/4 pipe to 3/4 hose by just adding an extra o ring in the hose connector.

 

[mhatlen]

FYI You can connect 3/4 pipe to 3/4 hose by just adding an extra o ring in the hose connector.

National Hose Threads are not quite as course as NPT. But you are correct about being able to jam 3/4 NPT into a female hose swivel. Its not pretty and it wants to leak for sure. But I don't see the point when adapters are available.

For people that have not seen the difference in gallons per minute from a full flow globe valve compared to the mandated restrictive valve our government has forced upon us its a unreal difference. If your water supply is good there will be a solid flow of water out of the 3/4" garden hose the same size as the hose.

Many folks have never owned a 3/4" garden hose only 5/8" hoses. We don't own a single 5/8" garden hose everything is 3/4" period. Was funny watching my wife trying to wash off the neighbors sidewalk with their hose. She asked me if there was something stuck in their hose. Made me laugh, explained to her that what we have for plumbing is not at all typical.
It took all the fun out of her wanting to wash off a sidewalk. Its also why I put this up as a post. When I flushed out the trucks it sped up the process at least 3 fold. Because moving around 20 gallons a minute through a hose is a far cry from 6 gallons a minute out of a tree huggers suck azz valve.

If you have never tried it you really truly should. Its pretty cheap too.

 

[SparkyF250]

Not much to add except when you're running off a spring or a well, Mark's system would run me out of water in about a half an hour. As it was, I hauled water from August to late October. Our spring is more like a seep in the late summer, so opening everything up isn't an option here. Besides my system supplies 2 houses and 2 barns and has to keep all my wife's critters happy & hydrated. Hope the well makes things more reliable, I'll know soon enough.

 

[mhatlen]

do you have a storage tank that is fed by a slow GPM ground water submersible pump?

Then a booster pump feeds the plumbing system supplied with storage tank ??

I have installed them for residential fire system water supplies.


I am getting my water from a 2HP submersible pump that has 42GPM that fills 575 gallon water tank.
I am 2 miles east of the Sacramento river and the Sierras feed the water table from East to West very well across the valley. I have water and if I needed it my well can support 200 GPM .

 

[SparkyF250]

do you have a storage tank that is fed by a slow GPM ground water submersible pump?

Then a booster pump feeds the plumbing system supplied with storage tank ??

I have installed them for residential fire system water supplies.


I am getting my water from a 2HP submersible pump that has 42GPM that fills 575 gallon water tank.
I am 2 miles east of the Sacramento river and the Sierras feed the water table from East to West very well across the valley. I have water and if I needed it my well can support 200 GPM .

I have a 1000 gal spring tank with a 1 hp submersible pumping water to the house, from the house it goes out to my sis in law's house and the farm hydrants. Soon the well will be tied into the farthest hydrant and sending the water back to me. Then the spring will just be a reserve in case the well ever gets low. We haven't tested the well enough to be positive of the recovery. I know I have 120' of water in a 6" pipe.

I have an 1 1/4" pipe from the driveway to the springhouse. When it gets low I run to the fire station and fill my 425 gal tank, dump it down to the spring and pump it back up. It get's old quick. Especially if you hadn't checked the spring in a few day and run out of water in the shower.

 

[mhatlen]

Its a tough thing when the water supply is light. Then you also probably have a few frackers raising hell with your water table. As long as you don't start pumping oil into your shower. I know if that happened to me I would bust those frackers in the mouth and they would also likely need to surgically remove my boot from their fracking azz.

 

[06King60]

Around here the frackers are going 1000' or so down. Our well is 75' and well above where they are working but you never now about the geology and if it would effect our well. I'm thinking and hope we won't ever have to worry about losing the well when they are going so deep but if we do they will have to pay no doubt

 

[G8orFord]

Where I'm at neither water supply nor pressure is a problem. I've got almost 110 psi at my house. Just put a regulator on today because I was tired of fixing busted pipes. Set it to 65 psi, hopefully the copper can handle that.

 

[mhatlen]

Where I'm at neither water supply nor pressure is a problem. I've got almost 110 psi at my house. Just put a regulator on today because I was tired of fixing busted pipes. Set it to 65 psi, hopefully the copper can handle that.

Thats awesome. you must have water tanks up on a hillside several hundred feet above your elevation.

Copper piping L&M has no problem taking 150-175 psi all day everyday. We have used it for fire protection systems in the past when copper was less then steel pipe.

I'm in a part of the California Delta that is oozing with water in the ground. There are 200HP 12" turbine pumps all over the place that pull up 4,000 GPM without a problem.
But we have seen the water table go from 35' down to 70' when they flood irrigate. But it always returns in a matter of days.

I can see it in my sprinklers when the table drops because I pump less gpm with less head pressure on submersible pump.

 

[G8orFord]

I'm in Florida. The highest point is only like 368' above sea level. Granted that point is only about 15 miles from me, but still... I do live in one of the lower areas that my co-op system serves, so that's why my pressure is so high.

I agree that the copper should handle my pressure just fine but after four separate leaks in 14 years, I said "Uncle" and put the regulator on it. A couple of the leaks were at joints, but the other two were pinholes in the the pipe itself. Maybe I got a bad run or something.

 

[mhatlen]

Well I will say that copper is a very high quality material choice when its used for domestic water supplies. As long as its moving water through the copper piping it lasts for years and possibly several hundred years.

But when copper is used in situations where there is little to no water flowing through it there can be big problems. Especially when the soldering is with the use of silver solder. The problem comes from the acids in the silver solder itself for allowing the solder to flow when heated. But if fresh water is running through the plumbing its fine.

As of 2007 we ended using it for fire protection because of the issues that can arise. There have also been some contractors sued because of the issues and the contractors are now loosing. So yea for us its no longer a option.

I'm a little surprised you are having problems though. Now if the home was built in the 90's you may be right if the pipe was imported. The Chinese were smelting anything and everything they could get a hold of for piping production and we all had big issues.


Boy did we F up this thread. Sparky you better get out your eraser.

 

[Tygercarlson]

Guys going to get cat elc today but I was wondering do I order 4 gallons of concentrate or 4 gallons of their 50/50 please answer as fast as you can.....

 

[voodooridr]

Guys going to get cat elc today but I was wondering do I order 4 gallons of concentrate or 4 gallons of their 50/50 please answer as fast as you can.....

Concentrate

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