Several videos and "theories" thru that guy are utter BS.

 

You're talking about Bill Hewitt and CCV deletes on a 6.0. People either love 'em or hate 'em, he makes some interesting claims sometimes. I DO agree with pretty much everything he says about hot timing killing 6.7's especially 2011's with valves that crack with heat. I don't agree with his statements about deleting. I think a light tow tune + a delete will make the motor last significantly longer than stock and net better MPG. I DO agree with his assessment of CCV deletes. If you're running a stock turbo and block I don't see the point. Maybe someone could attempt to justify it on a 6.7 built for pulling or racing that has excessive blowby.

Bill's approach to diesel trucks is longevity over performance. So he advertises DPF-on tuning, archoil, light tuning, and mostly stock trucks. He also really doesn't like H&S.

ww.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qu2-Dr3jF8&t=2s

 

So is it just useless but not harmful?

 

Necessary, i don?t know enough to say one way or the other. I did it with the delete and turbo. I added something since and it said ccv delete required in the description or install; probably the dual fueler. There are folks with high mileage trucks that have done it; however that doesn?t make it necessary or mean it doesn?t hurt things. I am probably a bit weird but like the smell; mine vents to atm by drivers door. I think smell is the most powerful sense as far as bringing back memories. Reminds me of when I was a kid wrenching on my mustang.

 

I have the factory box in place and am using a exhaust scavenger to still pull a slight vacuum on the crankcase, rather than pumping it back into intake

 

True, If you're replacing the upper and lower stock intake manifold/turbo inlet with aftermarket parts there is no place to connect your CCV any longer which makes it necessary to use a scavenging system to give the crank case sufficient vacuum to prevent oil from pushing past the turbo and valve seals.

 

So explain WHY trucks that run a CCV delete do not see an increase in normal range Oil PSI?

 

To directly answer your question: Since the cavity under the valve cover is primarily occupied by air and unpressurized oil, it's possible that air pressure alone can push oil past valve seals without seeing an increase in hydraulic oil pressure.

Air pressure and hydraulic pressure are two different things. A scavenging system such as what's offered by several diesel performance shops use a venturi in the exhaust to relieve crank case pressure without venting the crankcase directly to atmosphere. The factory system uses vacuum created in the lower turbo inlet plenum to pull air pressure out of the system as well. The net effect in both systems is not a drop in oil pressure, but a drop in air pressure in crank case.

All engines have a degree of blowby, particularly when cold. As a hypereutectic piston swells with heat the compression increases, the rings seal against the cylinder wall better. An example of how profound this effect can be, a low compression turbocharged engine with forged pistons has a significant amount of blowby around the piston rings. To the point that you can feel the compression strokes when the oil cap is off the engine, even with a properly working crankcase ventilation system. Some extremely high horsepower forced induction race applications use a belt driven scavenging system to prevent the blowby pressure in the crankcase from pushing oil into the combustion chamber or through the turbo seals.

I'm not advocating against a CCV delete in all cases. I think the additional cost of purchasing a kit for a stock turbo/boost pressure, stock intake truck isn't of particular value. If you're running a bigger turbo, aftermarket intake and intercooler piping I'd run it with some sort of scavenging system to help keep less than atmospheric pressure in the crank case. I think it would be easy to tell if you need a CCV catch can/delete if you can pull your intake off and see a large puddle of oil laying in front of the turbo. It could also indicate other problems that would suggest one or more cylinders have lower than ideal compression.

 

But there IS pressure created under the valve cover from the blow-by of the piston rings hence the OEM CCV. When the valve cover cavity is directly vented to the atmosphere HOW does that pressure now "push" oil past the valve seals????? It can't, it just vents.

which makes it necessary to use a scavenging system to give the crank case sufficient vacuum to prevent oil from pushing past the turbo and valve seals

SO how on green earth can a CCV delete result in pushing oil past seals on the turbo? The lubrication circuit is sealed for the most part to include the oil filter.

If you're running a bigger turbo, aftermarket intake and intercooler piping I'd run it with some sort of scavenging system to help keep less than atmospheric pressure in the crank case.

Yet you do not say WHERE you would connect your "system" to the crank case.

 

But there IS pressure created under the valve cover from the blow-by of the piston rings hence the OEM CCV. When the valve cover cavity is directly vented to the atmosphere HOW does that pressure now "push" oil past the valve seals????? It can't, it just vents.

The air in the crank case still has to make it through a single hole in the valve cover, down a long tube (depending on which kit you get the fitting and tube are likely undersized), past a filter and into the atmosphere. It's entirely possible you can make more pressure inside the crank case than is capable of being vented at any given moment. There are other problems with some of the kits that just vent the valve cover through an AN fitting and tube directly to atmosphere like oil mist (an air oil separator or catch can with a baffle can fix that) and smell. I like that Nolimit provides a kit with a venturi that actually provides negative pressure to the crankcase and puts the oil mist directly into the exhaust. No Limit Catch Can Kit With Venturi

SO how on green earth can a CCV delete result in pushing oil past seals on the turbo? The lubrication circuit is sealed for the most part to include the oil filter.

I think we're getting some wires crossed here.

I'm not making the argument that a CCV vented to atmosphere will ruin turbo seals on a 6.7 powerstroke. I'm stating that I don't believe a CCV is necessary with a stock turbo and stock boost pressure on a 6.7 If I didn't make that clear before, I apologize. I am saying that turbocharged vehicles with positive crankcase pressure will push oil past the turbo and valve seals depending on how severe the problem is. I do believe it's entirely possible that given sufficient amount of boost and blowby in a 6.7 without using a scavenging system you can push oil past the seals of a turbocharger.

Ray Hall Turbocharging - Turbocharger Facts and Myths

Fact Turbocharger seals do not seal engine oil pressure
Fact Turbocharger seals are there to seal crankcase pressure.
Fact Turbocharger seals are made of steel, not rubber. They are a steel piston ring.
Fact Turbocharger seals do not fail. Bearings fail first then the seals leak.
Fact You cannot BLOW a seal, no matter what you do.
Fact You can easily damage the bearings, and then the seals will leak.
Fact Incorrectly designed crankcase breather = oil smoke
Fact It you have oil smoke, then you need to fix the oil drain or crankcase breather.
Crankcase breather size is dependent on the number of cylinders. Engines with two cylinders need huge breathers. 30 to 40mm are needed. On a four cylinder engine you can use 19mm (3/4") in most cases. Catch Cans are a major cause of oil smoke. They restrict the engine breathing. If using a Catch Can, the hose and fitting sizes need to be doubled.

Common Turbocharger Problems
Engine Breathers:
Also, oil leaks in a turbocharger may be the result of the crankcase breather system. Either atmospheric or positive ventilation systems may not be large enough to handle the somewhat higher "blow by" which exists in turbocharged engines. It is recommended that the engines breather capacity be increased when a turbocharger is added. Even when the systems capacity is adequate, the elements in the systems breather will become partially clogged through use. Also, the breather may become clogged with mud or sludge in winter or under snowy and icy conditions. These conditions will cause positive pressure to build up in the crankcase. If this occurs, it will restrict the oil from flowing down the drain hose and into the crankcase, causing it to back up to the bearing housing.

It has been my experience over the past 17 years of owning highly modified turbocharged vehicles that all of the above is true.

Yet you do not say WHERE you would connect your "system" to the crank case.

I'm not selling anything, just offering information. I would like a system that connects to both valve covers, which are considered to be a part of the crank case. The 6.7 specific systems only attach in place of the filter on the drivers side head.

 

I see a lot of comments like "possible", "probably", "depending", "may", etc etc...Yet you have 17 years experience.....Guess you just have VERY specific conditions that need to be met to make your point.

The last few models of Powerstroke motors have various levels of oil accumulating in the intake tubing, inter-cooler, or compressor opening on the turbo. This is DIRECTLY related to the CCV system. The oil/oil vapor is so little in overall oil quantity it's NOT going to change the level of the engine oil. Another part of the issue has been the EGR in combination with the CCV. Oil/oil vapor WILL collect and cake up the soot in the system causing more problems.

In the end a CCV delete is worth it especially on modded/deleted trucks with low, mid-, wild and OMG levels of power.

I DO agree with his assessment of CCV deletes. If you're running a stock turbo and block I don't see the point.

I wouldn't do it, and I haven't seen any evidence that it's necessary.

I'm not making the argument that a CCV vented to atmosphere will ruin turbo seals on a 6.7 powerstroke. I'm stating that I don't believe a CCV is necessary with a stock turbo and stock boost pressure on a 6.7 If I didn't make that clear before, I apologize.

Well which is it....You support Bill or you don't.....Either you agree a CCV delete is good or it's a waste of time.????? Which is it? Just be clear since your statements are not clear at all.

It has been my experience over the past 17 years of owning highly modified turbocharged vehicles that all of the above is true

.

I doubt in 17 years vehicle manufacturers have seen a requirement for the use of "dual CCV" or a "dual PCV" style system YET HP and TQ gains across the years has grown. Sure maybe in some special built factory high HP vehicles Shelby, GT, Vette, BMW M-series etc etc....Now that I think about it does Roush or Shelby add a dual system??? I doubt it. WHY? Cause they use other measures to decrease the blow-by and it's not needed. I guess engineers figure that stuff out like they did for the 6.7.


Just remember: Turbocharger seals do not fail. Bearings fail first then the seals leak.

 

Well which is it....You support Bill or you don't.....Either you agree a CCV delete is good or it's a waste of time.????? Which is it? Just be clear since your statements are not clear at all.

I appreciate the point you're trying to wiggle in here. The OP was looking for feedback on Bills opinion. I immediately recalled the video because of the claims that he made in it were somewhat unclear and could easily be misunderstood. I feel I've been clear and consistent in conditions where CCV modifications/deletes are appropriate, where they aren't needed, and posted references to further reading for anyone else that's interested in the subject. I haven't deviated from that at all as you accurately quoted. I'm not sure what else to say, based on your last post it seems like we mostly agree with each other when it comes to where CCV modifications add value. For anyone else reading this thread, I encourage you to search for honest feedback given by owners of the common 6.7 Powerstroke CCV delete kits, then make an informed decision on what kit makes the most sense for your build.

 

Fact Incorrectly designed crankcase breather = oil smoke
Fact It you have oil smoke, then you need to fix the oil drain or crankcase breather.


Did you read this only once? The first statement: Fact Incorrectly designed crankcase breather = oil smoke. This is giving one problem and it's source. Yet the second statement give two POTENTIAL solutions.....hmmmmmmmm That's just double talking.



BTW the above reference the turbo problems...NOT the CCV delete. As you posted : Turbo seals don't fail. Hence how in Sam Elliot can a CCV Delete cause a turbo oil seal to fail. It cannot as you have already stated and seem to have a hard time accepting you said it.
By your own words and information you have proved that YouTube douche WRONG. Just man up.....

 

I added a one way check valve breather to the oil fill tube in place if the cap....wouldnt this help alleviate pressure?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

As opposed to a two way check valve, yes it helps.

The suggested problem, as others have posted, would be that the path the pressure would need to exit out thru isn't sized properly and will still allow the pressure to push oil past the valve seals.

 

I don't know about anyone else but every powerstoke with a factory ccv that I have touched has slipped or ruined boots from oil residue coating the whole intake sytem.

 

I just like putting shiny overpriced new parts on my truck who cares if they actually work.

 

Here is what i did on my 6.4. http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/#/topics/1087937

6.4?s have alot more blow by than a 6.7. But ive been around ccv discussion since the day i could drive and imo any forced induction engine should have some sort of ccv mod. The cylinder pressures do to boost are exponetially higher than n/a engines, pushing more air past the rings and pressurizing the crankcase alot more than a normal engine, making more blowby.

If you cant do a full delete (vent to atmosphere) then at least a catch can setup.

As for blowing seals pretty much every ccv post on this forum mentions blown seals do to overpressure. Is it true? Who knows. Do i think the OP and even myself want to risk it? No.

Isnt the oil pressure sensor between the pump and filter where pressurized oil obviously lives? Thats obviously a little different than oil being returned to the oil pan by gravity wouldnt you say? Why would ford engineers put massive o rings and gaskets on items that didnt live with pressuried oil like valve covers and glowplug harnesses? They wouldnt, so when you introduce pressurized oil vapor to a no pressurized part of the system anyone can see the snake in the grass.

To the OP, bill hewitt is an idiot, he may say some things that are correct but know one trusts him due to all the false things he did say. I have a 6.4 and they have alot more blow by than a 6.7. Im running 600hp and a 1?id tube for the delete and its a good setup imo. Even if you have mods i think one breather will do the job.

 

Has anybody here tried a Mann ProVent 200 in place of the factory CCV system on a 6.7 ?

 

Thought I would resurrect this one as I get this question all the time...

CONS:
1) Restricting ventilation will cause issues in the mid/long term
2) Venting to atmosphere is technically illegal

PROS:
1) Oil vapors w/o a fuel charge causes intake varnish, CAC/Inter cooler pooling, & Intake runner & valve fowling.
2) EGR deleted engines slightly increase the above effects. (Cooler air charge)

So...
You want to ensure POSITIVE Crankcase Ventilation when rerouting your CCV, so it is always a good idea to have a vacuum creating ventilation. You do not want to create a restriction by decreasing vent tube size or increasing termination distance without increasing vacuum.

How do I create a vacuum?
1) Weld in a venturi bung into the exhaust (Preferred) -or- place vent tube into the under carriage air stream and terminate with a 45 deg angle to create venturi effect vacuum (Not preferred for mudders etc.).

 

I wouldnt do the venturi, ive seen many people who’ve tried and ended up pressurizing it and didnt realize it to awhile later. Its also tricky due to the nature of diesel gasses continuing to expand throughout the length of the exhaust.

The only safe way is a VTA or a high flow baffled catch can.

As for it being illegal, i think it varies state to state. Also you can just cap it at the intake and return to stock easily if needed

 

For full disclosure and transparency, I VTA with the stock CCV filter with a 3/4 (?) metal nipple attached to stock tube to trick the hall effect sensor.

 

Just go to ford and order the metal nipple it has a part that's what I did. Bc3z-6758-a

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

Can you explain what we do after we get the part? Do we run a hose to vent to atmosphere? What do we do with the stock ccv?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I have been running No Limit's CCV Re-Route with Baffled Catch-Can and from there, Venturi to Exhaust... Been running for about a year with no effects as of yet, besides a bit of vapor coming out the exhaust tip, mainly during idling... I empty the Can monthly, always about 3 to 4 teaspoons of oil in the can.... It was an expensive setup, but, if you are going to do something to these expensive a$$ trucks - might as well do it right... I also do a "non-scientific" check of crank pressure by opening the oil-fill cap during idle, and place the cap upside down on it to see if it gets blown off, it never does....

 

I use the metal nipple and make and adapter with a plastic barbed / threaded fitting and a length of hose put it together and connect to the stock ccv box no codes and no oil

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

How about just putting in the CCV box from a '17 6.7? They have additional filter(s) to trap the oil vapors before re-entering the system.

 

Does it fit or do you have modify it ?
I seen it was updated for 17

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

The box itself uses the same bolt pattern I'm quite sure. Just not positive on how the tube hooks up.

 

One basic flaw of this discussion is that a diesel engine creates vacuum. It does not ie; the reason for a vacuum pump for the brake booster etc. Unlike a Gasser there is no throttle body to create a vacuum in the intake manifold. Also if you look at the upper intake manifold where the CCV is connected there is no venturi. If you still choose not believe the mechanics of the system execute a test. Start the engine, remove the CCV hose at the intake, place your finger or a sheet of paper over the hole. Feel the vacuum? Nope, because there is none. LOL

Now, you do not want to over pressurize the crankcase by causing obstructions to the release of blow by in the crankcase ie; small CCV to atmosphere tubing, restrictive catch cans etc.

 

It does create vacuum when under load just not much at idle. The ccv connects in front of the turbo inlet



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk