Funny you should say that. I had the same message pop up this morning on my truck. I'd been expecting it any day now as it had 8990 miles on it. This will be my first oil change. I haven't towed with it yet, and they were all easy highway miles.

Oh, and welcome to Powerstroke.org. You'll find that when you need something that there are a bunch of pretty smart guys around here. (me excluded) They're always willing to help out.
Bob

 

Yes. Mine went on at 2400 miles. Took it to the dealer since I bought the extended service plan on it. They reset the oil life sensor and told me they couldn’t change the oil till 7500 miles. The truck was almost a year old when I bought it. I ended up just changing the oil myself since I didn’t want to chance it.

Sent the oil in for analysis. Should get the results back in a week or two. Will let you know what I find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I hit 8400 miles of strictly towing heavy and was going to run it until the change oil message popped up,but since it’s the factory oil fill of 10w30 I went ahead and changed it to 15w40 because of the heavy towing.Next time around I’m going to see how far it goes until it prompts me.

 

I'm old and old school and just shudder at the thought of going way beyond 5000 on an oil change. Yes yes I know that oils today are not like those of yesteryear but I believe that my aggressive maintenance on my trucks, tractors gas and diesel alike are what allow me to keep things running longer and smoother over the years. Case in point....last year sold one of my vans of 24 years of age with 375,000 miles on her and the engine didn't burn any oil ---- in fact, the engine never had any repairs other than maintenance (e.g. timing belt, plugs, etc).

I keep my vehicles until the wheels pass me going down the highway (not literally of course). So I spend a little more on maintenance with hopes (and so far with success) that they'll be reliable and work well 20+ years down the road.

(ok ok .... the one vehicle that despite over the top maintenance that I couldn't keep reliable was my 6.0. I swear that thing was Satan in disguise!)

 

Yeah,I used to be the same way until I did my research on bobistheoilguy and I learned the truth about oils.Not what oil lube places wanted me to believe.Just recently traded in a 13’ Duramax with 306,000 miles of strictly hotshot hauling.Oil was changed on that truck at 8-9,000 miles and with plain old 15w40 conventional.

 

I do every 7500 miles. Easy to remember and I know every other oil change I need to do fuel filters. Also DEF lasts 8000ish miles so I fill it up every 7500 as well.

 

When I picked up my new truck, was told by the Service Manager to NOT change the oil until the truck sent the need oil change message for the first oil change. Original oil has a special additive in it they want to get entirely through the engine. The message will be sent when it senses the right viscosity change and will depend on the type of driving.......

 

My Ford Tech told me the same thing. A lot of members on this site don't agree with him. (oil is a touchy subject around here) With my last Scorpion engine (2014) I changed the oil at 1500 miles. The truck developed the "typewriter noise" immediately afterward. He said that he's seen it happen before when the break-in oil is taken out too soon, and mentioned that this issue was part of a test question when he was trained on the Scorpion engine at Ford.
I just did my first service on my 2017 at 9,600 miles, when it told me to do so. No problems so far. With the last truck I would have already changed it three times. I'm not complaining about the money savings.

 

I think there is a big difference between 9,600 miles and 2,400 miles. If the service manager said not to change the oil till the oil light came on when “the right viscosity” is sensed then why do you think there would be such a huge variation in mileage? I have not towed with my truck yet and did about 50/50 highway / city and drove it like my Grandma slow and steady.

Is my engine ahead of the rest of the class and finished first?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I can't answer that one. Maybe a electronic glitch? :dunno:
Like you, I haven't towed yet with mine either and drive very conservatively. Going this long between oil changes goes against everything I've ever been taught and learned. I feel like a kid playing hooky from school. Feels wrong and good at the same time.

 

@Colbythekidythekid

You ever get your oil lab test results back, definitely curious?

 

I did. But I did not input the oil additives so the test results were a little off. Working with them to reread the results with the knowledge that there was oil additives added to the oil. Will let you know as soon as I get the revised results.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

i aint run none uh them new fangled motors and oilz :*******:
but my daddy would beat my azz if i went over 3k on an oil change
i got 1300,000 out of one motor
550,000 out of another
and regularly get over 300,000 without any troubles...
my dad was a smart dude guess it skips a generation :look:

i know there have been leaps and bounds in oil science since i was a kid but
i change mine at 5k intervals easy peasy next up when my truck turns 160k it's time

and I'll be due for fuel filters too cause even number

 

I knew I liked you for a reason! And now I like your daddy too (but mainly because of the azz beatin' part). lol

So that said, ditto the 5k my friend!

 

On the 13’ Duramax I traded for this Superduty I changed oil at 8-9,000 miles and with 15w40 conventional.That truck was loaded full time with a minimum of 9k which was just the trailer and a max of 27k.Traded it at 306,000 miles all trouble free and was tuned since 146k.

 

My light actually just came on 9100 miles. I'll be putting in 15w40 synthetic but I'm curious if you guys are still sticking with the motorcraft filters.

 

Yes, I'm sticking with the Motorcraft filter. If something goes wrong while under warranty I don't want Ford to have ANYTHING to blame me for and try to wiggle out of a repair. Besides, they are good filters and aren't too terribly expensive compared to some.

 

M1-405 Filter

 

Oil

I did the blackstone oil analysis route with my last truck.. an 01 Tundra.

I did 3 or 4 in a row. A couple observations. It was really evident that the 'super magnet drain plug' that I bought had an impact. That sucker was strong! You had to try hard to line it up with the drain hole, or it would grab the sides of the pan!

The part that was surprising was that when I saw an increase in sand in the oil.. the analysis guy asked me about my air filter. It was factory, and maybe a year and a half old, and LOOKED fine. He said.. CHANGE IT.. Change it every 12months.

I couldn't disagree with him. You could see the dirt in the oil tests. It's probably overkill.. but I was testing, and using the oil out to 10k miles. Synthetic of course. The oil guy told me that my used oil coming out at 10k miles STILL had more of the good additives in it than brand new mid brand oil.

To each his own. Like others said, it's a personal thing. I'm just sharing some science. I probably have the old emails and test results from that truck. They are in the big folder that should help me sell the Tundra soon. It's 17 years old.. with a 5 year old frame under it. Still looks pretty good. Will make someone a good truck.

JP

 

ahhhh, the good ole days. Oil change every 2000 miles and filter change every other oil change. If it wasn't for cost of a filter, why not? Let's see, oil qty is 13 qts. Filter might hold 1/2qt. So the ratio of dirty to clean oil is minimal. Of course, the ratio was worse back then since cars only held 3 to 5 qts. As for the filter getting clogged, if that is gonna happen, you have a bigger problem.

But, I have managed to let the old times go. I use the best oil I can (subjective of course ((Rotella T6 5W40 since I tow)), change it at 5K miles but don't cry if I go over a bit, and yes, filter at every oil change.

Improvements in oil have certainly happened but I think one of the biggest things to help oil go longer is fuel injection, leaner burning, better tolerances, better valving and timing, etc. In the old days I worked (USAF) where we had a spectrograph for oil analysis. The oil would flash due to the residual fuel in it. Of course, the fuel would dilute the oil and certainly not lube things well. And yes, you could definitely see things like silicon increase when the air filter got dirtier. Again, for the cost, I just replace it every year or so, depending on driving conditions. When I lived in Phoenix, always every year.

I like the way you think JG

 

Any one have definitive knowledge about factory break in oil? I have oil that is about 16+ months old but with only 2,500 miles on it. I just bought the truck a few months ago but it was sitting on the lot for a year. I'd like to get some fresh oil in it but not if there is truth to the "break in oil".

 

Oil that is a year old with that few miles on it is probably still new. Oil won't really degrade from sitting. Short cycles, heat and contaminants will. If it were me, I would leave it in. The oil minder takes time into consideration as well as load, cycles, temperatures and more.
So far as the "break in oil" myth is concerned? While I cannot speak with certainty to a Ford diesel, one boat, two cars and a motorcycle that I've had factory fill tested on came back as typical oil. No extra ZDDP or moly. Nothing out of the ordinary. Hell, if you are willing, crack open your drain plug and take a sample for testing. Then we can all know what the factory oil looks like!
While what someone says is not always truth, I read a post from a retired UAW worker that said they haven't used a break in additive in years.

 

Break-in oils have essentially disappeared, with the exception being engine builders (think '70 Chevelle engine builds). Check out Jeg's or Summit Racing and I'm sure you'll see some options for builders & racing applications.

You'll find most old break-in oils had additives that would not be suitable for today's engines/emissions componentry. And most were short-term (like fire it up, run it, use RPMs suitable for your particular camshaft design (flat tappet, roller cam), vary RPMs, seat your rings, full throttles/mid throttles, avoid idles, change oil at specific intervals.

Plus, today's engines are far better in regards to tolerances, surface finishes, metallurgy, and quality control - all equating to the obsolescence of break-in requirements in most cases.

We are in the lubricant business (our warehouse stocks Castrol, Liqui Moly, Mag 1, Shell, Chevron, Citgo, Mobil, PEAK, etc.). None of our inventory contains break-in fluids.

Annual oil changes can be good for low-mileage drivers. Depending on where you live (climate), and what your oil is (conventional, blend, synthetic), how you drive those few miles annually, etc. Especially conventional, where waxes can cause problems in freezing temps. Cheap peace-of-mind too.

 

When I picked up my truck in December, I had a long conversation with the Fleet Coordinator who happened to be there. He specifically told me that there was a break in oil in the engine. And to not change it until the change oil light came on because it was important to get as much of the additives into the engine as possible.

 

I had the this conversation with my Ford Diesel Tech regarding break-in oil. He said that there "is" break-in oil in the engine from the factory, just as you were told, he told me not to change it until the truck told me to.

On my 2014 F250, I didn't listen to him and changed my oil at 1500, 3000, 5000 and every 5,000 miles after that. After the first oil change the engine came out of the garage with a bad case of the typewriter noise, which was a real disappointment as I thought I was doing the best thing for my engine.

With my 2017, I wised up and listened to his advice. I left the break-in oil in it until the truck prompted me to change it, which was at 9300 miles. With my 2014, I was on my fourth oil change by that point. I have no issues with the typewriter noise with the 2017, and have saved myself a bunch of time and money.
I spent two years in school learning to build/rebuild engines when I was younger and I followed my training with my 2014 because it was the way I always had done things. I quickly learned that times and technologies have changed since then. As usual, I had to learn the hard way.

 

To each their own as far as factory-filled oils (and the advice of some techs and fleet coordinators). A lot of old school and/or misinformed/false information floats around.

However, today's engines are clearanced and clean. Metallic flashings, contaminants, etc. were removed with break-in oils in the past, along with long-distance seating of valves and rings...all of which have essentially been solved within the manufacturing process & decades of improvements. That's why most OEMs have a break-in period listed as "not necessary" to about 1,000 miles. It's hard to find any break-in period longer than the 6.7's 1,000 miles, and that is primarily for your rear gearsets.

Most PSD owners should be more concerned about following break-in for the benefit of your drivetrain/differentials.

FWIW, I only listen to the OEMs, I don't listen much to the high-turnover dealership employees. Many of which have about as much business advising you on the technicalities of your vehicle as I do to NASA's next Mars Rover. Let alone have access to factory-fill oil formulation data. If Ford doesn't tell me to keep my factory oil in place, why would I worry about it?

And in case you're wondering, the average dealership workforce tenure is 2.5 years. That's indicative of an environment where the knowledge base can be significantly diminished from what the general public assumes of their dealership.

This is from our 2017 F-550 6.7 owner's manual...note the bolded text.

BREAKING-IN

You need to break in new tires for approximately 300 mi (480 km). During this time, your vehicle may exhibit some unusual driving characteristics.
Avoid driving too fast during the first 1000 mi (1,600 km). Vary your speed frequently and change up through the gears early. Do not labor the engine.
Drive your new vehicle at least 1000 mi (1,600 km) before towing a trailer. Make sure you use the specified engine oil. See Capacities and Specifications.
Do not add friction modifier compounds or special break-in oils during the first few thousand miles (kilometers) of operation. These additives may prevent piston ring seating.

Your money, your rig, your choice. But I'd have zero hesitation changing oil at any point of ownership unless the OEM provided specific instructions to the contrary.

 

Thanks for all the info.

I have 2 questions:

Does anyone use an oil not listed on Ford's WSS-M2C171-F1 approved oil list?

Anyone using Motorcraft Super Duty Diesel Motor Oil 10W-30?

Thanks in advance

 

Does anyone use an oil not listed on Ford's WSS-M2C171-F1 approved oil list?

I do in my 2014. I currently have Mobil 1 TD Truck 5w40 in it. It is not on the list but it isn't a CK4 oil though. Mobil's website specifically says it doesn't meet the WSSM blah blah spec, but the spec is for new CK4 oils.

Mobil's spec show it is API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL, SJ.

It says nothing about CK4 so I don't worry.

Mobil has a good rebate program going on so I stocked up.

 

BMW did a study on synthetic oil and found out it doesn't reach maximum effectiveness until 5000 miles so if you use synthetics and change it early you'll shorten the life of your engine. Just trust the engineers.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

This sounds like insanity. No offense. Tribology and lubrication cannot work on defining miles for things like "effectiveness". Far too many variables. And even effectiveness is a very loose and broad term that true scientific studies would define with qualifiers and identifiers.

Do you have a source for this information? I'd like to read it. Considering the countless name brands and all of their different versions/sub-brands of synthetics, plus varying viscosities/driving habits/environment/terrain and other variables.

One person's 5K miles can be a whole lot different than the next person. A guy in a Super Duty on the North Slope of Alaska hauling a gooseneck all day, idling all night vs. a Nashville millennial in a BMW 3 series driving 17 miles to the community college a few times per week. Which 5K miles would BMW be talking about?

And that's not even considering you're talking about BMW - what could they possibly have tested it on? Certainly not every engine. And what oils did they test? Certainly not every brand. It would be extremely difficult to issue a blanket statement like that.

As a tribologist I haven't run into anything, anywhere, from any source, that says an engine oil of any formulation is more effective after a bunch of miles; or doesn't reach maximum effectiveness right out of the bottle...

Would really like to see this. I've searched the web but haven't had any luck.

And I'll close with I've never heard anyone, anywhere, say if you change a synthetic oil early you'll shorten the life of your engine. That goes far beyond comprehension and reasoning. Oils start to get contaminated, diluted, and break down, microscopically and slowly, as soon as you pour them in and start cycling them through temps and work. So how could changing them early shorten the life of the engine?

 

I sure don't have an article. I read it about 7 or 8 years ago on a BMW forum. I had several Ms and we always used to argue about this tour as well. That was one reason BMW went to longer intervals. And to be fair it was one kind of synthetic tested on BMWs only.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

@Ranch Hand Edition

Does anyone use an oil not listed on Ford's WSS-M2C171-F1 approved oil list?

Remember the list applies ONLY to those oils spec'd as CK4 oils. CJ4 spec'd oils are ALWAYS good to go.

Anyone using Motorcraft Super Duty Diesel Motor Oil 10W-30?

All day, every day. Has been the better choice for my motor. VERY little "ticking" if it even happens at all after an oil change. Some oil changes using MC 10w30 there will be an occasional tick, some oil changes there is never any ticking. 114k running hard, or pulling like a mule.

 

@Ranch Hand Edition



Remember the list applies ONLY to those oils spec'd as CK4 oils. CJ4 spec'd oils are ALWAYS good to go.

Just to follow up and clarify :nerd: my oil situation:

You search your vehicle on the mobil website for a Ford 6.7, it shows up "mobil does not have any oils that meets ford MSS whatever spec"

Or something close to that statement, don't quote my quote haha

I'm just "technically" not meeting spec

 

Where is Patriot on this one? Good read, I’m glade it came back up. Ya’ll bit overcomplicate it though. I put engines together regularly and you have to use assembly lube in a few particular areas, so that’s going to be flushed and mixed with your first oil regardless of if you think keeping that in or additives are good or bad. We always try to use break in oils but as Many engine builders that do, seems don’t. One thing that has gotten better is the filtration system. So your likely fine running it as long as you want but 9k seems a stretch. What do you think is happening? Valves and rings seat, that’s it. The assembly lube is there cause that first startup there is no oil in the places there always will be after that. Some real high end builders pump oil through the system before its started but with assembly lube that seems overkill. I’m waiting on my 19. I’ll change the oil at 3k and stick with conventional, then switch to synthetic at 5k intervals after. Computers tell you when to change lanes or not, when to brake, what route to take, when to change your oil. No plans anytime soon to start listening

 

I put engines together regularly and you have to use assembly lube in a few particular areas, so that’s going to be flushed and mixed with your first oil regardless of if you think keeping that in or additives are good or bad.

This is very true - even at Ford. We sell a lot of white assembly lubes, pastes, moly, etc. to engine shops & assembly departments.

Computers tell you when to change lanes or not, when to brake, what route to take, when to change your oil. No plans anytime soon to start listening

Now if I can have success raising our 5 kids to not let computers decide everything for them.

 

Just a general thought, a break in oil would likely have more additives such as zinc or what ZDDP additives replace??? I really have no idea what break in oil would have added for the break in process, I'm just making a guess.

I'm just assuming that break in oils would have a higher concentrate of the stuff that supposedly harms emission controls.....so why would the manufacturer put that stuff in it?

To me, change it whenever you want, or wait for the light. As far as believing any service writer or dealership employee, I would be very skeptical of anything they tell you.

One other thing to consider is how Ford's oil change interval minder is configured. With my space ship exhaust in place, the light came on pretty much at 7,500 miles. Without my space ship exhaust in place, it still comes on at pretty much 7,500 miles. Important variables (possible fuel dilution, regen temps) have changed but I still have the same outcome. So is the computer really that important/accurate?

I personally drag out my oil changes. My 6.4 was always at 10k and my 7.3 is at 10k. I do my 6.7 when the light comes on. I have never had any issues with my powerstrokes caused by extending oil changes. I've put ~24,000 miles on my 6.7 in about 10 months and it will be likely up around ~30,000 in a years time. My oil changes occur relatively often even at 7,500 intervals.

 

Ugh 10k seems high, but if it works. Funny reminds me of a Sergeant at work. He is on the dumb AMSoil challenge or something with his dodge. He has never changed the oil in his Ram over 150k just does analysis and adds additive. Everytime we talk i tell him he is an idiot and he does the same, he says I’m throwing money away lol. Regardless we don’t hang out socially lol

 

@ars5147


"Technically" you are meeting the specs. You are using a CJ-4 oil. Those are always good to go for all Ford diesel motors.



As I understand it:

When API changed to the CK-4 specs, Ford undertook their own testing to find the new CK-4 wasn't up to their specs for wear. Ford took the position to mandate any CK-4 oils needed to meet their WSS-M2C171-F1 specification. Since the oils out there are more than Baskin Robbins ice cream flavors Ford did make up and have been updating the oils they have approved in a nice .pdf list.



This is where people have been confused over the CJ-4 and CK-4 oils. If you can find CJ-4 buy what amount you can afford. It's good to go. If you can only get CK-4 you should check the approved oil list to be sure it's good to go.

Or something close to that statement, don't quote my quote haha

I can tell you in the future I will be using APA Paper Formatting & Style Guidelines. LOL

 

@ars5147


"Technically" you are meeting the specs. You are using a CJ-4 oil. Those are always good to go for all Ford diesel motors.

I can tell you in the future I will be using APA Paper Formatting & Style Guidelines. LOL

Yep, I am good. I think the TD stuff is being phased out like the rest of the old "good" oils.