[wyndsurfr]

as far as assembly goes there isn't anything much I can add for pictures that would have shown anything.

The transmission stand will become apparent when you actually look at the transmission. It has 3 big indentions 2 on one side and 1 on the other for the holder to screw into. Basically i just used steel with nuts welded to it so I can screw threaded rod in to tighten it all up.

If you have a transmission to look at, then look at the pictures I posted it will make more sense.

good luck, sorry for the lack of assembly pictures, but the book does a great job at that, I just wanted to show pics of the tools that I made.

 

[SJB]

as promised here are some pics of the disassembly. It will be this weekend at the soonest before I can start the assembly, but I will update with the component rebuild part of the transmission rebuilding process.

first off I made my own transmission holder, the cheapest I found them for was over $400 bucks just for the holder, you didn't even get an engine stand with it for that price. I made this out of 1/2 inch by 2 inch flat stock, it's ugly but works great

next is the "bondo" brand dent puller I bought for 12 bucks at advance. It actually worked better than the fancy slide hammer I borrowed. the threads on the end did not match up perfectly but they were good enough that they held and did not booger up anything...

This is the clutch spring compressor tool that I made, made it out of thin 1 1/2 inch angle iron. 26 centimeters long with the bolt holes centered at 24.5 centimeters. one hole in the middle with threaded rod and a nut welded on and one smaller 6.5 inch piece of angle iron to push with. pretty cheap "special" tool...

this is all of the parts inside of your transmission, not bad at all...

and finally this is the gutted case

so total all in all not knowing what I was doing other than the ATSG book to guide me I got everything out, labeled, and set aside in about 8 hours. That included making my "special tool". It would have gone much faster if I had known what I was doing, but hey I'm a noob...


When I get ready to start stacking clutches and rebuilding components I'll update this thread, should be in a day or two.

First off, thanks for posting. I'm hoping to find a salvaged transmission so I can have the luxury of training myself on this rebuild. Sorry for these noob questions, but is that tranny from a 2wd or 4wd? Just trying to get an idea of the looks between the two. I'm going to have to take some pictures of mine under my truck so I can learn to tell the difference for when I start shopping for a rebuild. You also mentioned PTO, or at least I think that was it. Sorry, but what does that stand for? And last, your one picture shows the body or case of the tranny with it all gutted out. I was just wondering if it is possible for the internal body/case to become damaged, and if so does that mean it might as well be tossed away?

 

[wyndsurfr]

First off, thanks for posting. I'm hoping to find a salvaged transmission so I can have the luxury of training myself on this rebuild. Sorry for these noob questions, but is that tranny from a 2wd or 4wd? Just trying to get an idea of the looks between the two. I'm going to have to take some pictures of mine under my truck so I can learn to tell the difference for when I start shopping for a rebuild. You also mentioned PTO, or at least I think that was it. Sorry, but what does that stand for? And last, your one picture shows the body or case of the tranny with it all gutted out. I was just wondering if it is possible for the internal body/case to become damaged, and if so does that mean it might as well be tossed away?

PTO stands for "power take off" it's for things like tow trucks that have hydraulic rams to power. chances are if you don't know what it is, you don't have it. Yes you can damage the internal case, mostly you don't want to be prying on anything in there! Do not let anything happen to the snap ring grooves as those are pretty crucial. This is a 4wd transmission, the difference will be in the tailshaft, whereas mine is big and has a spot to bolt the transfer case to, the 2wd version will be more pointy at the back. Good luck, and finding a used tranny to build before yours goes out is a smart Idea!!!

 

[SJB]

PTO stands for "power take off" it's for things like tow trucks that have hydraulic rams to power. chances are if you don't know what it is, you don't have it. Yes you can damage the internal case, mostly you don't want to be prying on anything in there! Do not let anything happen to the snap ring grooves as those are pretty crucial. This is a 4wd transmission, the difference will be in the tailshaft, whereas mine is big and has a spot to bolt the transfer case to, the 2wd version will be more pointy at the back. Good luck, and finding a used tranny to build before yours goes out is a smart Idea!!!

I was just curious if it was possible that a tranny would grenade itself enough to damage the internal case? And in this case, are you pretty much SOL with that case? Not so much from damage done during the rebuild process.

 

[wyndsurfr]

I was just curious if it was possible that a tranny would grenade itself enough to damage the internal case? And in this case, are you pretty much SOL with that case? Not so much from damage done during the rebuild process.

yes, it can definitely happen. If your transmission grenaded itself then I would look for another used one to rebuild. I have heard that you can no longer buy the new cases from ford, could just be a rumor though. I was told the 4r100 cases are the same but some of the sensors are different so keep the sensors out of the one from your truck.

I hope this is a hypothetical question and your transmission hasn't done that...

also bear in mind that I am in no means a transmission expert, I completely rebuilt my transmission and now I believe all that was wrong was a bad torque converter. I was posting this to hopefully help some people in my situation and to alleviate any fears about tearing into your transmission.

 

[SJB]

yes, it can definitely happen. If your transmission grenaded itself then I would look for another used one to rebuild. I have heard that you can no longer buy the new cases from ford, could just be a rumor though. I was told the 4r100 cases are the same but some of the sensors are different so keep the sensors out of the one from your truck.

I hope this is a hypothetical question and your transmission hasn't done that...

also bear in mind that I am in no means a transmission expert, I completely rebuilt my transmission and now I believe all that was wrong was a bad torque converter. I was posting this to hopefully help some people in my situation and to alleviate any fears about tearing into your transmission.

Thanks for the info. No, my transmission is fine as far as I know (knock on wood). I was just wondering for when I started shopping for a training project. I wanted to buy a tranny in need of rebuild for cheap so I could learn on how to do it myself, and have the luxury of building over time without the need to rush to get it back in the truck.

 

[SJB]

Just bought a rebuildable 4R100

Update: I just bought a full 4R100 tranny and torque converter in need of a rebuild for $150. Is that a good price? The guy I bought it from said that he had it rebuilt once, but it was still having problems. I guess it was slipping and he said it would blow out extra fluid (out of some overflow) when he was towing up really steap grades. He said it was cheaper for him to buy a working one out of a salvage yard than it was to have his current one rebuilt. So he did that, and said the salvage yard wouldn't take cores. So that was why he was selling it. I thought $150 seemed like a good deal, but I'm not sure. I hope it turns out to be a good investment, and not find out something is wrong with the case.

 

[Jason812]

Update: I just bought a full 4R100 tranny and torque converter in need of a rebuild for $150. Is that a good price? The guy I bought it from said that he had it rebuilt once, but it was still having problems. I guess it was slipping and he said it would blow out extra fluid (out of some overflow) when he was towing up really steap grades. He said it was cheaper for him to buy a working one out of a salvage yard than it was to have his current one rebuilt. So he did that, and said the salvage yard wouldn't take cores. So that was why he was selling it. I thought $150 seemed like a good deal, but I'm not sure. I hope it turns out to be a good investment, and not find out something is wrong with the case.

Probably worth 3 times that for a core charge. That's a pretty good deal.

 

[wyndsurfr]

Update: I just bought a full 4R100 tranny and torque converter in need of a rebuild for $150. Is that a good price? The guy I bought it from said that he had it rebuilt once, but it was still having problems. I guess it was slipping and he said it would blow out extra fluid (out of some overflow) when he was towing up really steap grades. He said it was cheaper for him to buy a working one out of a salvage yard than it was to have his current one rebuilt. So he did that, and said the salvage yard wouldn't take cores. So that was why he was selling it. I thought $150 seemed like a good deal, but I'm not sure. I hope it turns out to be a good investment, and not find out something is wrong with the case.

Yeah that's a good deal. I would bet something is wrong in the valve body. How long since he had it rebuilt? I would just rebuild the valve body and try it out if it hasn't been long. Torque converters are usually not re-usable or so I've heard, but if it's in the same transmission I'd still give it a shot... Get a high quality valve body kit, mine came with crappy stuff and I've been meaning to do an update about it. You want the hard RUBBER balls in there, not the plastic balls.

 

[SJB]

Yeah that's a good deal. I would bet something is wrong in the valve body. How long since he had it rebuilt? I would just rebuild the valve body and try it out if it hasn't been long. Torque converters are usually not re-usable or so I've heard, but if it's in the same transmission I'd still give it a shot... Get a high quality valve body kit, mine came with crappy stuff and I've been meaning to do an update about it. You want the hard RUBBER balls in there, not the plastic balls.

Like an idiot I forgot to ask him how long ago it had been rebuilt.:doh: I'm not looking to do a quick repair and throw this in my truck (my tranny is still fine). This is my training project. I'm going to use this one to teach myself how to rebuild it. I don't really have the money to mess with it too much right now, but I will do it over time. I was thinking of making it a "bullet proof" tranny, but now I'm rethinking that. I don't want to spend a lot of money only to find out that I made one small mistake on my first rebuild that causes it to break.:doh: So I'm thinking I will go "affordable" with this one to confirm I do it right.

 

[strokerspeed]

SBJ I've been looking to do the same thing you are (buy a bad one and rebuild before its time) but I'm always finding prices more in the 3-500 range for a bad tranny...
where did you score that deal?!

EDIT:
of course I do keep noticing the $1000 "remanufactured" 4R100 on ebay(HERE), they say they garuntee it for 30 MONTHS!? What do you guys think of that? Sounds wierd any tranny for that cheap could be warrantied for that long...?

Or this one with a 24 month that even claims to be "dyno tested", no torque converter but still...why so cheap with an unlimited miles warranty like that?
HERE

(torque converter with 12 month unlimited mile warranty $235 shipped)-HERE

 

[SJB]

SBJ I've been looking to do the same thing you are (buy a bad one and rebuild before its time) but I'm always finding prices more in the 3-500 range for a bad tranny...
where did you score that deal?!

EDIT:
of course I do keep noticing the $1000 "remanufactured" 4R100 on ebay(HERE), they say they garuntee it for 30 MONTHS!? What do you guys think of that? Sounds wierd any tranny for that cheap could be warrantied for that long...?

Or this one with a 24 month that even claims to be "dyno tested", no torque converter but still...why so cheap with an unlimited miles warranty like that?
HERE

(torque converter with 12 month unlimited mile warranty $235 shipped)-HERE

I got lucky and found mine in our local online classifieds ksl.com - Utah News, Sports, Weather and Classifieds. I watched it for a little while and emailed the guy a couple of different times. I can't remember what he was originally asking for it (something like $350 I think). I guess most people don't want an already broken tranny. :hehe: It was just taking up space in his garage and he wanted it gone ASAP. So I told him I only had $150 cash, and asked if he would take that which he did. So I think it might just be a matter of looking in the right place at the right time. I would probably call around to junkyards and keep an eye out on your local classifieds. You will find one for a good deal eventually. Good luck...:thumb:

 

[strokerspeed]

I went ahaid and emailed some of those sellers claiming big warranties for some terms and details on the warranties.

This is the only one I have gotten so far, I'm really considering buying one of these when the time comes...what do you guys think?

 

[wyndsurfr]

Mainly... How much does it cost? It sounds like they have lots of "we don't cover if..." clauses in there. I wouldn't do that route if I were you. If I were going to buy one I would let the people who built it put it in, that way if it fails they can't blame you or another shop for doing something wrong. I've gone through that before and it isn't pretty, the transmission people will say it's the shop that put it in (or you), and the shop will say it's the transmission. Eventually it will be a stalemate and you will be the one screwed.

It's best to keep the whole job to one shop, then there is no one to blame but themselves.

However, my advice for the thing is to do it yourself... you'll save a load of money and have something you can be proud of when bragging to your friends. Before you spend any money on a transmission buy the book from ATSG and have a little read through it, it's only 20 bucks for the book on ebay and my bet is when you see what is involved you'll end up doing it yourself. I only encountered one problem which I am about to post now.

 

[wyndsurfr]

UPDATE

UPDATE ON MY REBUILT TRANSMISSION!!!!!!


Ok so here is an update after driving the truck for a bit... Reverse kept getting worse and worse until I basically had to put it in low range just to back up a slight incline... I thought first off that I had ruined something, or just done something wrong...

before tearing it apart I thought long and hard about the whole build and re-read through the book. Here is what fixed it...

In the rebuild kit they give you new check balls, the kit that I got had hard red plastic check balls and a ****ty EPC blowoff ball/spring. I put the new ones in even though I didn't like them. The old ones that were factory were a hard rubber compound. Well I thought it was the plastic balls versus the rubber balls and that I was having a sealing issue, I guess I was right. I put my old ones back in and it's perfect again. I've just gotten back from a 4 hour pull of about 9,000 lbs. and no issues at all.

so when you get your rebuild kit, make sure to order the rubber check balls and a new steel EPC blowoff kit. The plastic stuff doesn't seal up and will cause issues!!!

 

[strokerspeed]

Mainly... How much does it cost?

I do keep noticing the $1000 "remanufactured" 4R100

CLICK HERE - $1000 (probably garbage) 4R100

And thank you for the information, I didn't realize you where having problems with it but I'm glad you figured it out so when all of us do it we don't have to! Thanks again!

EDIT:
I also have some questions, I'm trying to get a list going of all part numbers needed and from where.

In one of your posts

transmission rebuild kit- all soft parts and seals, check valves, clutch disks, steel disks, replacement filter $210.00 shipped from trans-parts
Thrust washers- 2 were bad $14.68 shipped from trans-parts

The parts list at trans parts for the 4R100 is at THIS LINK (click here)
could you please tell us which rebuild kit and thrust washers you ordered from there?

Also here is a LINK TO ARI TORQUE CONVERTER is this the one you purchased? If not could you please show us which one. I couldn't find any options for a 4 or 6 bolt? Also is there any way to know which you have (4 or 6) Before pulling it out?

And thank you once again! This will help a ton of people have the confidence to order whats needed the first time and do it right the first time. Thats my fear anyways...I don't mind tearing into it and doing it, I just fear I will screw up somewhere and not know it until its back in...I hate doing things twice.

EDIT AGAIN!: I'm sorry but I keep thinking of questions...
You mention you got another check ball and kit...where did you get those and how much?
Also about your torque converter possibly being the problem all along, what would you suggest to insure someone else doesn't have the same thing happen? Take it to a shop first? I fear if I do that all shops will just tell you it all needs rebuilt no matter what...?

 

[wyndsurfr]

Ok stroker, here's my answers ;-)

I would think that YES most transmission shops would just say they need to rebuild it and for you not to touch it that you will just screw it up. Maybe you will, but when I did mine I felt like it was already broken sooo, screw it I'd give it a try, glad I did.

Sadly there is no way to know all the parts you will need until you are into the transmission, some thrust washers have 4 tabs, some 3 you won't know until you're in there. Same as with the 4 or 6 carriers, although to my best recollection that doesn't matter as per the standard rebuild kit. The standard kit will have clutches in it, gaskets, and a valve body rebuild kit, the "upgraded" rebuild kit will have steel discs for the clutches as well. I went ahead and got that one just because it wasn't that much more (like 40 bucks).

I might have made a typo about the check balls, I reused my old ones after I figured that the new ones were causing problems. Also you will want to reuse your ___ blow off valve, the new one is junk. You'll see when you get into it, the factory one is a steel ball and a spring, the new one is a weird little plastic filter, plastic ball, and a spring.

Save all of your old parts, I'm glad I kept mine around!!!

As far as diagnosing whether or not it's just your torque converter I am absolutely no help there, if I knew I would've done it myself ;-) one clue that I was ignorant to at first though was every so often (like twice I think) the truck stalled when going into drive (D) like a stick shift would. That's what makes the difference between a noob like me and a real transmission guy. However for the money I saved I am so glad I did this.

Hope that answered your questions, feel free to ask any more, I'll help if I can... Like I said, I don't know alot about them but I have been through one now and they are not magic, just stay organized (very organized) and follow instructions. The only special tool I needed was an inch pound torque wrench, you will also need a ft. lb torque wrench but most guys have those already. Get the book and go through it a couple of times before ordering your parts. If Mike doesn't answer the phone at the parts place, then ask for him he's very nice. You will probably need to have your transmission out before ordering parts, and just count on having to order some more after you get into it because the kit doesn't come with everything. It's not going to be a straight up rebuild and throw back in the truck again. Total I only had 8 hours of actual rebuilding time in it, but it took a while for me to save up money, wait on parts, get re-motivated... you get the picture.

By far it's harder to get the transmission out of the truck than to rebuild it! Just so you'll know, you'll want about 5 feet worth of 1/2 inch extensions to reach the top two bolts that hold the bell housing to the engine, it helps to have a buddy put the socket on the bolt, while you do the torquing/untorquing from the back.

 

[wyndsurfr]

Oh, and yes that is the same company I got mine from. usually a guy named mike answers the phone and he's generally elbow deep in a transmission when he does it, I really liked that. Not some fool who just answers phones, also he was not at all mean when it became clear I was a total noob, he helped me alot and I feel like he didn't take advantage of the fact that I knew nothing about what I was ordering. That's not to say a person should call him and ask him how to get out of a tight spot they're in, but who knows, he may not mind a bit... At least get the book, look it over, then call him and ask him what you need to know before ordering your kit.

by the way, EBAY seems to have the best deals on those books, only by a couple of bucks, but hey it's something. I did not order the "supplemental" book that is supposed to update and changes or mistakes because I felt like it might confuse me, maybe I should have though? Just know that there is the rebuilding book and then a supplemental book that goes along with it so you don't order the wrong one by mistake.

 

[strokerspeed]

THANK YOU for all the help and information!
I do have to ask one more question though...
how hard would it be to just change the torque converter first to see if that is the main problem? I believe my torque converter is most of if not all of my problems...I'm thinking I would like to change out the torque converter first to see how she does, BUT if my transmission is indeeed due for rebuild will it tear up my new torque converter? I wouldn't think so...? Thanks again!

 

[wyndsurfr]

I wouldn't think that it would mess up the new torque converter either, but there are folks who say that it will (contaminated fluid). So, I guess it's kinda a toss-up as to whether or not it would. I found a real good deal on mine, seems to be fine too, however I would think a "fancy" one would not be money wasted... Just depends on your situation really, my situation was every dollar spent on the transmission literally was money that I could not spend on groceries so I had to go cheap with it.

Seriously though, it's much harder just getting that transmission out than it is to rebuild it, more time but not a whole lot more work.

Is your Overdrive light blinking, or has it ever? I did not know that was a trouble light for the transmission, if it's blinking then it's got a code, that may help you to pinpoint it or it may not, those codes can be pretty vague.

If it were me, I would just rebuild it, then you know it's all good, but if money is super tight and you have plenty of free help maybe try the torque converter, it'll just come right off the main shaft. Regardless of what you do, MAKE SURE YOU FILL THE TORQUE CONVERTER BEFORE INSTALLING IT!!! It will hold ALOT of fluid, you'll want to fill it, then turn it sideways in all directions so it can drain down and then fill it again. Seems like I put a gallon in mine and it still could have held more.

Oh and I did not get a gasket for my transmission to transfer case gasket in my kit (I'm guessing since not all trucks are 4x4 they don't include it) you will want one of those, I'm still running with the BLACK RTV silicone (in a very very thin coat)on mine and haven't had any leaks, but to do it right you'll want one of those. I didn't know it until I was putting everything together to drive the truck so I didn't want to wait until the next day to get one, I was excited to see if it would work. So even taking it out to change the torque converter you'll need to remove the t-case, so I say go on and get one, if you use the gasket dry (with no silicone) then it will remove easily if the T.C. is not the issue and can be reused.

Now, I feel I've got to defend my use of silicone... NO it is not good to use silicone anywhere near your transmission, but if you are careful, put a very thin bead (so none can squeeze out) then I think it is ok, still not RIGHT though.