Any pics of the filter and debris??

 

The failure from the CP4 pump is when the lifter roller galls against the cam shaft
the fuel is used to lubricate the brass bearing surface and the camshaft
but the modern low sulfur fuel has very little lubrication value

Usually you will see the steel particles from the roller and cam, but also may see the brass flakes

The "disaster prevention" kit re-directs the return flow from the unfiltered pump inlet
to instead return to the fuel tank, where the metal at least would be exposed to the filtration system before it went into the pump
the "failure" may still happen, but the injectors and rails should be saved

Since the guide piston runs in an aluminum bore, there could be contamination from there as well, but not likely

Metal particles in the filter could come from an external source such as the "gas pump" or even farther up the supply chain
the only real way to know would be to pull the tops off your pump cylinders and check the lift piston and cam surface

 

Thanks for the responses. I do wish I had a disaster kit right about now.

I take back what I said about the silver particles...they are magnetic. I was running a magnet around the bottom of the glass bowl and the silver pieces were not moving so I assumed they were not magnetic.

I found my magnetic retrieval tool and as you ca see, most of the debris is magnetic. Everything on my finger in the attached pic came off the magnet.

The silver pieces came out white in the pics, but the sparkle in the sunlight.

Thanks again.

 

Have you be getting fuel from a single station? Single source (field tank)?? Or many different stations?? When was the last time you changed fuel filters?

With what you think you may be getting into you have options....cheaper than the full monty but still need to make $$$$ decisions.

Something to think of: Dropping the tank for inspection ( or use inspection tools)....lot cheaper to see how much crap is in the tank.
A) Dirty tank?? Clean out, refill with clean fuel ( as best you can determine) from a station. Buy some more filters and change them in a few miles to see if it's the HPFP introducing the junk to the tank.
B) Clean Tank??? Buy some more filters and change them in a few miles to see if it's the HPFP introducing the junk to the tank.

 

Have you be getting fuel from a single station? Single source (field tank)?? Or many different stations?? When was the last time you changed fuel filters?

With what you think you may be getting into you have options....cheaper than the full monty but still need to make $$$$ decisions.

Something to think of: Dropping the tank for inspection ( or use inspection tools)....lot cheaper to see how much crap is in the tank.
A) Dirty tank?? Clean out, refill with clean fuel ( as best you can determine) from a station. Buy some more filters and change them in a few miles to see if it's the HPFP introducing the junk to the tank.
B) Clean Tank??? Buy some more filters and change them in a few miles to see if it's the HPFP introducing the junk to the tank.

Just a thought, how does dirt from a tank get past two filters. To my knowledge there is not a fuel filter bypass and even a dirty filter will still filter, correct?

 

I have been traveling, so the fuel is from many many different stations. I always try to buy from high volume locations when possible. I also use optilube with every fill up and have for quite a while. Never any water in the bowl...it's usually clean. This is the first time I have seen this amount of debris and never anything that shimmers until now.

I change fuel filters every 10K.

Any idea if these pumps die a slow death or is it pretty rapid when you see metal? I am in New Mexico and need to get back to the east coast ASAP. Debating whether to have it checked out or just drive until it quits. Need to go about 1600 miles.

 

Damn...1600 miles. No one wants to replace the whole fuel system, nor any part of it really. Even so I'm an optimist so that's where I'm coming from. I'd say its crap from your travels. If you have been on the good maintenance trend as you say it's always a plus. With that ....it's your truck and money.

 

Metal from the pump would be of the bright shiny kind, what I see is likely from the various places you had bought fuel

 

I’ve never seen the aftermath of a failed pump but I agree with Hydro and would expect finer shavings that were shiny. That looks like you filled up out of a rusted out steel tank. If it were me I’d run a tank of new fuel through new filters and see if it clears up. If it doesn’t there’s lots of brand new 10 speeds sitting on lots between New Mexico and the east coast.....

 

I'm not sure how you are getting to:

how does dirt from a tank get past two filters.

The DFCM filter element collects 20 micron (maybe 30 micron) particles. The upper fuel filter collects 4 micron particles.

 

I'm not sure how you are getting to:

The DFCM filter element collects 20 micron (maybe 30 micron) particles. The upper fuel filter collects 4 micron particles.

Oh, I see what you are saying now, I stand corrected. Is there a better filtering system that can be installed that will filter out any sediment that could harm the CP4 pump? I am thinking that a filtering system should protect anything down stream from what could be in the tank.

 

Well the secondary filter it's doing that job pretty good. Not to mention you would need to be able to maintain the flow when the demand is higher. I do believe there is plenty of ideas one could float but engineering would show you that a 4 micron filter is pretty damn good for the application.

With that there are systems out there that could help with particle filtering. I have read good reports (not a huge number) on the AirDog system. I personally run the Diesel Site kit which I use the 30 micron Dahl filters. Yes, Dahl does have lower rated filters that could be used but I found that they tended to cause loss of flow.

For my setup there's 4 filters in place: 2-30 micron Dahl, 1-30 micron OEM DFCM fitler, the last is the 1-4 micron upper OEM fitler.

Here's info I have collected:

• "DAHL fuel filters efficiently remove most water and solid contaminants from diesel fuel before it reaches pumps or injectors, thus prolonging parts life and reducing unscheduled downtime. DAHL’s functional dual-chamber, three-stage diesel fuel filter/water separators provide efficient suction side water separation and contaminant filtration. The key is the unique DAHL-patented depressurizer cone which spreads the fuel flow. With more area to flow over, greater separation of water and dirt from the fuel is achieved. DAHL diesel fuel filter/water separators have less mechanical flow resistance than other separators because the fuel only changes direction twice. The DAHL unit removes virtually 100 percent of the water and most of the contaminants from the diesel fuel.


Absolute Micron rating should be lower for best filtering. PSI needs to be checked on the output to support equipment need. Adjust micron size to support the flow thru of fuel in case of PSI not meeting equipment needs.
I.E. 4 micron nominal =50% capture; 20 micron absolute = 98% capture of particles that size and larger.

 

Thanks for the tip, I will research the DAHL system. My 2016 F350 6.7 liter is in the shop now. My truck went into limp mode and the mechanic determined that it is a bad PCM. He also let me know the fuel sample showed indication of contamination. My truck only has 28,000 miles on it! I thought I took very good care of my truck, but in Fairbanks, I know now that including an additive with every tank of fuel is a must. Do you have any other advice for me regarding how to future proof my truck?

 

Why did he pull a fuel sample??

Fuel issues rant follows....LOL

I'm getting to the mindset of pulling a sample from the drain port on the DFCM is a crock. It's supposed to collect water....if it collects anything else it LOOKS contaminated. I'm not saying that the filters can be trusted 100% but the more I think about "fuel samples" one has to ask.....where are you getting the sample from??
My Dahl system collects a VERY small amount of crap and water if any at all. So I can see for myself what's coming out the tank. Not to mention it has a sample port as well. Is it fool proof?? Not by any means, it's just another part of the system I can say has the ability to prevent ANYTHING crappy from getting to the OEM fuel system.

It's said water will settle to the bottom of the diesel fuel tank as well as any trash/sediment. The fuel pickup is just above the very bottom of the tank. So one would need quite a bit of water and debris to be clogging the filters as well as collecting up for the drain port to give a sample. BUT if you have a very small amount of water added say during refueling every time, that water CAN get to the water separator, which collects over time. Not to mention any debris.....Now you pull a sample, from a spot where there's been accumulation over 5k miles.....it looks bad.

I had gotten the idea of having mason jars (or fuel rated glass containers) that I would drain the DFCM at every fill up. JUST to say I had already pulled a sample at (XXX miles) of driving. That way no dealer could ever use "contaminated fuel" as a reason to refuse warranty coverage.

So if your tech wrote up in his work order you had contaminated fuel you are possibly screwed down the road. Maybe they will use that to make sure your warranty doesn't cover fuel related issues. That's just my opinion....Do not take that as fact. The best you can do is get them to remove the notation from the work order. God only knows if he's being an Eagle Scout of a Ford tech. Now with all that people have been able to get their fuel related issues settled under their vehicle insurance. You weigh your options. I'm so far out of warranty I know what has to happen. That's me. I'm not sure if you have any additional warranty coverage available with 28k on the motor.

Sorry about that....just got on a mind roll with my thoughts. Don't be alarmed...be smart, think things thru, there are easy solutions to help stop the bigger issues from happening.

In AK....damn...That's got to be rough on fuel and fuel tanks. I'd just be careful about where you get your fuel.

In the long run just do good maintenance. Oil, OEM oil filters, OEM fuel filters, quality fuel from know sources. Maybe pull the fuel samples at every fill up. Maybe just spend money on aftermarket kits. Do not go too overboard, but do what you feel comfortable with doing.

 

I believe that it is just the PCM and not a bad fuel pump debris clogging the fuel rail and injectors. During a reduced power event I was able to take off the battery cable for a few minutes and put it back on which immediately smoothed out the engine when it started. I was able to drive at 60 mph without any issues. But that was only one of three times that I was able to do this. Finally, i had to get it to a shop. One would think that if a rail and injectors are contaminated, that taking the battery cable off wouldn't manically make it better.
Not sure why he took the fuel sample and he didn't let me know where the sample originated from.

 

Yea, not sure what would have led him the fuel sample other than "its what Ford says to do", but when the PCM is listed bad it's going to get fixed.
Try to talk to them to get the work order reviewed before they complete the work. Just make sure what's written on there...They can change it if you really want to be admit about it.

Not to mention you can argue their ability to take the sample and have it tested, who's qualified to report on fuel quality, what's the process, what's the testing process....etc etc etc...

Did you ever have any Water In Fuel warnings?? Or was it just the Reduced Power??

 

No warnings about water in the filter, just reduced power. They didn't even let me know that they were going to take the sample, it just showed up on the estimate as a possible issue if the PCM doesn't fix it. I am going over there tomorrow to sign the estimate for them to order parts, but I am very hesitant and I don't have a good feeling about the whole thing.

 

Hey I had a bad PCM....I just had the WIF warnings, then it went to Reduced Power, then nothing. Just see what happens....

 

If you are saying, just see what happens after the new PCM install, I agree. One thing I will change is adding a couple more filters as you have done, plus I will start using a fuel additive to lube the fuel pump. Never done that to this point.

 

Sorry, that was what I was getting at. See what happens with the new PCM.

Not sure what you have local access to for fuel additives. I'd bet quite a bit since we are talking diesel fuel, but it is AK. There is a heater element kit for the Dahl setup. Not sure if it's going to be able to work if you get the Diesel Site kit. I'd ask to be sure before spend the cash.

 

I should qualify this experience with the following: I have owned 3 diesel pickups over the past 35 years. The first being an '86 F250 6.9 liter extended cab w/ Banks Turbo that I installed, then a '94 F350 crew cab 7.3 liter NA, then this 2016. The first time in all those years, I am seriously thinking of switching to a gas engine. The related expense of owning a diesel engine at 57 is just not worth if for me any longer. When I worked in a remote gold mine way back then, the company only charged me 86 cents per gallon to fill my truck and was the reason why i bought a diesel pickup in the first place. Those days are gone forever, and I am going to crunch the numbers and see if just a beer or two can get me thinking clearly about giving up this best running truck i ever had till this point.🤔

 

winterized fuel is pretty hard on the systems ,

 

@C_Karl : Hey I feel your pain. When we want more power and better operational capabilities we get what we ask for. Now think of the GOV getting into the regulations it only adds more potential systems that can fail.

In the end your older trucks compared to the 2016 are the modern equivalent to digging a 10' deep, 100' long trench with a shovel compared to using a Cat 352.

Crunch the numbers is a great way to compare the pluses and minuses. Way back in 2000 I did just that with my '99 F350 V10, compared to my neighbors '00 7.3L. Seems as what I saved in the initial costs I ended spending in fuel. Sure I saved the cost of the diesel motor up front but over time those savings were spent in fuel.

The problem is when the fuel costs shift one way or the other. Maintenance costs will generally stay pretty steady over time. Sure prices change for filters and oil, but they generally don't swing 200% in a year. Right now I spend $80 for oil, and oil filters. If that grew to $240 and stayed there I'd rethink my vehicle choices. Right now I tend to spend $80 in fuel per fill-up. If that goes over $200, I'd drive less...LOL

Since you want to use numbers to help make a decision I use Fuelly to track fuel numbers. Since new my trend is $.14 per mile in fuel costs. That's just fuel.
In oil and oil filters @$80 per 7,500 miles that should be $.01 per mile driven. OEM fuel filters run me $60 a set every 7,500 that should be $.008 per mile.
I'll leave it there for now since oil, oil filters, fuel, and fuel filters tend to be the most frequent maintenance items for most all vehicles. If we wanted to get ALL the numbers down on paper we would need to start a Excel sheet....LOL

 

Couldn't sleep, so here I am before 5:00 am going over the diagnosis of my truck from the repair shop. He mentions the contaminated fuel system including metal but never mentions the fix for it in the estimate. He wants to replace the PCM first then address the contamination. He also mentions that he is not sure if a faulty fuel injector caused the PCM failure in the first place. So, shouldn't the potential cause be fixed first? Just thinking out loud here, if there is a known issue with my vehicle of this magnitude, shouldn't the mechanic at least contact me directly to discuss the options? This approach to vehicle repair could be a bottomless pit and seems to be going out of control before it is even getting started.

 

Have you owned the truck since new??

 

yes, i have. Purchased August 10, 2015

I decided to work on the fuel contamination issue myself, including a new fuel system plus the fuel/water separator filter. I'll let the mechanic flash the new PCM when it comes in, but I cannot get any sleep thinking that I need to be working on my own vehicle. Taking a truck to a shop is new to me as I have always done my own work.

 

Can you describe where your DAHL filters are located on your truck? Or pics?