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Low power, bad mileage, sensor? Turbo actuator issue? WHAT?

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27K views 25 replies 7 participants last post by  carsbikesplanes  
#1 ·
K, I think I may have purchased someone else's frustration. 2008 6.4l with 270,000 km. Truck seems meticulously maintained in the King Ranch trim. Did a mileage/hour calculation and the truck has averaged about 40mph through it's life (55km/h). Personally I have owned many diesel powered devices including 2 7.3 Powerstroke diesels. My issue is that this truck does not have the performance or fuel mileage I would expect (not even close). I suspect the previous owner was trying to resolve a problem through recommendations. First suspect (in my opinion) was exhaust pack pressure sensor. Next may have been a suspected exhaust system issue. Who knows what else. The previous owner installed a straight through (no muffler) exhaust, did the delete stuff and installed a Spartan tuner. He also (after I suspect was told to) re-routed the Exhaust Back Pressure tube to behind the engine near the top.

Here are the things (that I can remember) that I have found. At first, I thought it was the exhaust back pressure valve since it was generating a P0472 code. Seemed to fit the symptoms. I then discovered that the Spartan tuner could be 'opened up' for other sensor readings and could read the exhaust pressure in real time. The reading has been all over the board. At first I began to think I had a bad connection in the wiring. I just completed a 1200 km (750 mi) trip and watched the gauges quite carefully. The first half, I had the Spartan tuner set at 210 hp tow mode. The exhaust back pressure would bounce around in the 30 psi range most of the time, then would occasionally drop to zero. When the back pressure was indicating, the turbo boost would be above 20 psi (cruising at 70 mph). When the back pressure dropped off to nothing, the boost would drop, but the truck actually seemed to 'open up' and drive more freely (if that makes sense).

On the return part of my trip, I tuned the truck for the 40hp setting. Thought it should improve my mileage. Once again, set the cruise at 70 mph (Actually 113 km/h on the GPS). The back pressure reading never dropped to 0, but quite often was reading 50psi. As for turbo boost, it was always over 20 and more in the 30psi range. The whole time, I could hear the turbo whine. As for power, my 7.3 intercooled has more. When I arrived home, I fueled up and it worked out to an astounding 14 mpg for a US based gallon.

Here are my thoughts and I will let you experts tear me to shreds or give me more insight to what I suspect. I think there is a sensor/mechanical linkage that controls bypass (like a wastegate) that is malfunctioning. I can't imagine how many sensors there are on here, but I feel it might even be more than one that is an issue. I suspect that the Spartan tuner ignores some of the sensors on the higher hp settings and that is why it gives more 'real' power on the higher settings. I did briefly put it on the 310 hp and the 350 hp settings and it was completely scary (for a 1 ton lol). I just really didn't care for the coal coming out of the pipes. As for mileage, on the first half of the trip on the 210 hp setting, it was actually better.

Hope someone can help, or at least explain how all the systems/sensors function in this powertrain.

Thanks in advance.
 
#3 ·
One other thing. I also set one of the Spartan gauges to read my oil pressure. Not sure why and can't imagine it is accurate, but it reads 0. Could all this be caused by a faulty oil pressure sensor? Would never imagine driving that distance with no oil pressure.
 
#5 ·
I was ready to replace the sensor, but it really looks like a new sensor has been installed (not that it couldn't be a dud). At this point, I am tending to think it is something to do with the system that controls back pressure to aid in warmup.
 
#8 ·
#10 ·
@junior125 is exactly right about it being a switch. The same basic sensor/switch is used on the 7.3, 6.0, and 6.4. Here is the datasheet from the 6.0 book describing the operation.

Image


There are two prevailing theories... a) It was done to save a few bucks and b) It was done to keep a billion people from overanalyzing their oil pressure and complaining. The real answer is probably "all of the above."
 
#11 ·
Ok, guess that deals with the oil pressure. Can anybody help with my original issue? Are there any sites that clearly show how the system works and how all the sensors work together? Love this truck, but don't want to hurt something by running it this way (high boost and low power).
Thanks
 
#12 ·
I would pull the back pressure sensor and tube and clean it, see if that makes a difference, it also could be a biased EBP sensor causing it to read high, what does back pressure read key on engine off
 
#13 ·
#14 ·
If you look towards the drivers side of the engine near the fuel cooler you'll see the vgt actuator for the turbo. If the actuator was malfunctioning it would spit a code for it. It is possible that it is malfunctioning. It may just have a bad connection. It is electronically controlled. If you cycle the key to the on position you will hear it sweep. Being that the sensor was relocated I'd check their wiring to be sure nothing is loose or chaffed. The ebp controls the turbo.


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#15 ·
I am tempted to change the EBP sensor, just because I don't know the history of the sensor. I suspect that the previous owner (from some of the things he said to me when I was looking at the truck) had tried and tried to resolve an issue that has been going on for some time and finally gave up and cut his losses. He told me that the 'check engine light' was on because of the low EBP reading. He told me that he relocated the sensor tube to a higher point because the tubes were known to freeze in colder temps with the exhaust modifications done. The tube and sensor look new. As for gauge readings, the previous owner did not have the Spartan tuner 'opened up' to be able to load the EBP gauge. With the gauge, I can see that sometimes it just drops to 0. Other times, it will bounce around quite a bit and will read quite high. With the Spartan tuner set to the 210 tow tune, the EBP gauge read in the 20-30 psi range while cruising at 70 mph. When I changed to the 40 hp, the gauge would read anywhere from 30- above 50 psi or sometimes drop to 0. Not so much on the 40hp setting, but on the 210 hp setting I could actually feel the engine 'relax' and I would look down and the EBP gauge would be at 0. My boost pressure would also come down slightly. But also, when the EBP was reading 0, I in fact seemed to have much better power, once again because it seemed like the system was running without restriction. Because of this issue of high pressures, I have not dared to put my foot to the floor and hold it there. The boost gauge is already pushing off the end and one of the intake lines has blown off the boot. To me, it seems like some type of gate is operating erratically (the gate that controls warmup?). Seems like it opens and closes at will or getting erratic signals. With that being said, think I should at least change the EBP sensor and go from there. I bought an old AMC years ago that wasn't running. It had a brand new distributer in it, so I thought that couldn't be the problem. Tried everything, even changed the cam chain and sprockets (ran out of other ideas at the time). In the end, I finally questioned the brand new points in the brand new distributer. With all the other parts changed, that car ran like a top when I changed the new points out. So yes, I could have a dud in the sensor (or a bad connection in the wiring harness).
 
#16 ·
And thanks for the technical manual link. Will definately download. Can never have too much info on something like this. I am already thinking about putting my old Excursion 7.3 back on the road. It was giving me over 24 mpg on a Canadian gallon. This 6.4 gave me 16.9 which works out to 14mpg for a US gallon.
 
#20 ·
You may want to contact spartan to see if they have any updated tunes for the truck. Ran into a SCT tuned truck that had been deleted that screwed a number 7 injector one time and shut the truck down another. Returned pcm to stock and truck fired right up where two minutes before it wouldn't even crank over. Guy updated his tunes and never heard back.

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#21 ·
I have also checked the back pressure with key on, not running. I have gotten two readings. Sometimes it is 0 and other times it is just under 15 psi. I ordered a new EBP sensor and tube yesterday just to make sure. I sent Spartan all my info about a month ago to transfer my info for ownership, but have not heard from them. I do know there is an update for the programming and will try again to contact them. As for the MAP sensor, can it be erratic? I have now got the truck running on the 175 HP and it seems to run better.
 
#22 ·
Map sensor will read differently with it running since the manifold pressure changes with boost conditions. KOEO the MAP should be close to atmospheric depending on where you live (mountains vs sea level). It sounds a little like a programmer fault, or the engine has some mismatched parts or hopped up injectors that won't work with any economy tunes because they require "X" amount of fuel to run properly or "X" amount of "open" time and the happy zone is the higher tunes.

Now I'm also assuming that the fuel pressure has been checked in addition to the fuel supply amount and checked for aeration?

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#23 ·
I haven't checked the fuel pressure but can say that, from the exhaust on the higher hp settings, there is definitely plenty of fuel. Runs like a cranked up semi from the 70's. As what I said from the start of this post, the problem is not all the time. On a 400 mile trip, I could literally feel when things would change and my EBP reading would go from a reading to 0. Then after a period of time, it would all of a suddenly start reading a pressure again and during those times, the turbo pressure on the dash gauge would also change. This is with the cruise on and driving on the Canadian prairies. This particular road trip of 600km requires you to use your blinkers twice and your vehicle never downshifts. I really think it is some intermittent connection/reading that is causing the turbo actuator system to act erratically. I have a new EBP sensor and tube coming to start with. I believe the one on there is practically new, but willing to throw that change at it. From there, if that doesn't fix it, I will be looking for forum advice/experience as to where there are potential problems with connections/other sensors on this engine. There are times when the truck runs really great, other times it just seems to be bogging. I contacted Spartan again today to hopefully get the ownership changed and get the updated firmware. Like was stated earlier, perhaps the tuner software is at fault. Also, while I think about it, is there another sensor/system that controls the cold start circuit that could give an intermittent that causes the 'warm up' circuit to activate. To me, that is what seems to be happening and the engine seems to be working hard (attempting to generate heat and also burning the extra fuel).
 
#25 ·
The thought just occurred to me that something in the programming could be faulty and it's not totally shutting off, or programming out, the regeneration mode. The regeneration mode was an Achilles heel on the 6.4 trucks throughout the entire run of them. It started with shooting flames out of the exhaust, then trucks "making" oil due to fuel in the pan, and even a few "foolers" that didn't fool so well and partial regeneration still occurred. I'm not saying it's probable, but willing to say it's definitely possible.

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#26 ·
The EOT sensor makes sense as a possible culprit as does programming. I contacted Spartan again yesterday and re-sent my info so I can get the programmer updated to the latest firmware. Looking forward to this issue being resolved.