I have gone through 4 engines 18 months with $60,000+ in repairs/towing. I am putting together a case for breach of warranty (Ford refused warranty on every failure). Also for the junk defective pistons that crack like an egg. I am not looking to debate any of this its a fact, I've lived it. If you have been through these same issues I am looking for people with repair bills/pictures/PROOF of these engines cracking pistons. Please get in contact with me if you have anything. This could be a huge help to a lot of people.
escore
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No debating as to whether you actually replaced your engine 4 times (I would have sent it down the road after the second time) I believe you. However, could you shed some light on the situation? What was the mechanic diagnostic? Did you use the same mechanic each time? Was it an entire engine or just a short block? Did you ever have a tuner or programmer installed? Which cylinder had the bad piston the first time? How about the second and third time?
No debating as to whether you actually replaced your engine 4 times (I would have sent it down the road after the second time) I believe you. However, could you shed some light on the situation? What was the mechanic diagnostic? Did you use the same mechanic each time? Was it an entire engine or just a short block? Did you ever have a tuner or programmer installed? Which cylinder had the bad piston the first time? How about the second and third time?
i guess you didnt have to do many oil changes for those 18 months. Just got a new motor. saved like 500$ on oil changes. Thats a plus.
Honestly I am not here so much to discuss my misery as I am to get something done about it. It was replaced 2 times by a Ford dealer and came with a warranty. first a long block, then a complete, then it went to a private shop after they refused the warranty for the second time. They bull****ted me on what was failing every time. And they promised it would be right every time. You wouldnt simply send it down the road if you where putting the money into an $80,000 truck and too broke from fixing it to replace it. Its an F450 Box truck that is heavy all the time. (but never overweight). It was fixed by two different Ford dealers and had a warranty both times that was refused. I will be putting together a website in a few months when I have more time with details. For now I am just trying to get proof together for the suit.
good luck
we don't hear a lot of cracked piston complaints unless someone is tuned
we have a few techs who might chime in but i am sure they will ask questions like was it the same piston
were injectors replaced swapped around etc and the F450 CC has different strategies than the pick ups ( we are mostly pick ups) so maybe you want to hit a forum like a hotshot or landscape or ??
we don't hear a lot of cracked piston complaints unless someone is tuned
we have a few techs who might chime in but i am sure they will ask questions like was it the same piston
were injectors replaced swapped around etc and the F450 CC has different strategies than the pick ups ( we are mostly pick ups) so maybe you want to hit a forum like a hotshot or landscape or ??
There is no denying pistons are a problem... But if you want any real support we need more from you as to the cause. You can't even begin to put a case together unless you as the plaintiff have a solid answer as to WHY your pistons failed, What pistons failed, and Why you feel Ford/Navistar should pay up...
What EXACTLY was done each time the truck was in the shop. When did you do oil changes and what oil did you use.
I will not even try to bs you, EVERY 6.4 that comes out of a truck for any kind of tear down should get Navistar pistons or some form of HD pistons. It is very well known that the Ford slugs have casting flaws and are prone to cracking due to their design. That said, it is a failure that is covered under Ford's warranty provided you are still within the milles/time. Why did your warranty get denied?
You aren't going to get any support unless you say something other than "My expensive truck broke, help me sue Ford...!!!"
It doesn't work that way around here.
What EXACTLY was done each time the truck was in the shop. When did you do oil changes and what oil did you use.
I will not even try to bs you, EVERY 6.4 that comes out of a truck for any kind of tear down should get Navistar pistons or some form of HD pistons. It is very well known that the Ford slugs have casting flaws and are prone to cracking due to their design. That said, it is a failure that is covered under Ford's warranty provided you are still within the milles/time. Why did your warranty get denied?
You aren't going to get any support unless you say something other than "My expensive truck broke, help me sue Ford...!!!"
It doesn't work that way around here.
No I am fine with giving some info if you are actually looking to help the situation but I am not looking to get into a discussion over what the actual fault of the failures is which is quickly what this is turning into. I have been down this road for two years and tired of hearing you had to do something wrong or its your problem. I've had a very reputable shop working on my truck and I know what I am talking about or I just keep my mouth shut. 4 engines in that time is very much just the engine, pistons to be exact. I kept the last two blocks that cracked pistons and they show that no injector is stuck, nothing is melted, and everything is normal, just cracked. I maintain my trucks as they should be by the book and with all OEM Ford parts, including brake pads and batteries so no maintenance is not the issue.
The first failure happened at 102,000 just out of warranty. A long block was installed by a Ford dealer full of idiots in Oklahoma. It was claimed to be a stuck injector. I should mention the fact that they wanted to reuse all but one injector in the new long block, I refused and paid for all 8 to be replaced since they blamed the issue on that. I went above and beyond at every breakdown to be sure everything was replaced and done right. Then 30 days later at about 105,000 it failed again in the same manor this time in Vegas. Again to a Ford dealer who put the blame on the previous dealer for not changing the fuel pump. I never saw any parts of the truck on either of these failures but the both had the same symptoms.
The third failure came with a $20,000 bill and a compete engine with another complete warranty. That is a complete drop in replacement, new pump, injectors, everything. 5 months and about 15,000 miles later if fails again. I tow it 800 miles home to a dealer where I can take my time and be there daily to be sure it gets fixed right. At this point I still know nothing of the piston issues of the 6.4. The dealer promises to work with me to be sure the truck is warrantied and get it fixed correctly. They don't they refuse warranty and claim it to be a stuck injector due to bad fuel. I loose my cool and promptly tow it to a private owned diesel shop. Upon finishing the tear down it was found that a piston was simply cracked in half. No injectors stuck, nothing melted. It still had oil all over the piston and cylinder walls, and still had carbon on top of the pistons. Everything was fine just cracked in half, except for the fact that the idiots at the dealer left my fuel pump torn open so it corroded and bent the hell out of the compressor wheels on my turbo. We rebuilt the engine with the same injectors, had to use a new fuel pump, and did some other things. Deleted it, studded it, ceramic coated the pistons, and tuned the truck down some.
It ran for a year and about 20,000 miles and did the exact same thing again. This time when we called for warranty on the short block that was purchased from Ford they said that unless it spun a crank bearing they will not warranty a 6.4 short block. Another words we know the pistons are garbage so we just keep blowing those claims off. They use the fuel card as a way to put it on the customer. In my case I see these issues way faster and more often than most because my truck is an F450 box truck that runs around at about 80% of its max capacity at all times. you would never see it this often in a pick up.
This is a serious thing, Ford is ripping people off, and the two blocks I have are proof of it. What I need is expert opinions that know this is a huge well known issue, and will speak on it. I am also looking for customers of Ford with pictures, and bills that show these issues so I can prove it is a very prevalent issue. I want to go to court with at least 24 documented cases of this happening so I can show a jury that this is a prevalent thing that Ford is ignoring, and even installing more engines and parts with the same problems that come with a warranty they already know they will not honor. I have lost a lot more than money in this battle, I have almost lost my business, a chance at buying a home, and a few employees. You can call me an idiot for fixing the truck over and over but when your that far in, and a Ford dealer keeps giving you a warranty and claiming it is fixed right you keep telling yourself it has to be right this time. I have obviously now discovered the International Max Force pistons, which even more tell the tale that Ford is ripping people off and covering up the trash they are selling. A cab and chassis should of had those pistons from day one. The truck is rated as something like a 26,000 lb GCVWR. The worst part is I have owned nothing but Fords my whole life and ALWAYS serviced them at a dealer or myself with ALL ford parts. I was a die hard, I am that ******* that loves his 6.0 and will take it to the grave, I have 5 fords right now, and every time I get in one of them I want to vomit now.
The first failure happened at 102,000 just out of warranty. A long block was installed by a Ford dealer full of idiots in Oklahoma. It was claimed to be a stuck injector. I should mention the fact that they wanted to reuse all but one injector in the new long block, I refused and paid for all 8 to be replaced since they blamed the issue on that. I went above and beyond at every breakdown to be sure everything was replaced and done right. Then 30 days later at about 105,000 it failed again in the same manor this time in Vegas. Again to a Ford dealer who put the blame on the previous dealer for not changing the fuel pump. I never saw any parts of the truck on either of these failures but the both had the same symptoms.
The third failure came with a $20,000 bill and a compete engine with another complete warranty. That is a complete drop in replacement, new pump, injectors, everything. 5 months and about 15,000 miles later if fails again. I tow it 800 miles home to a dealer where I can take my time and be there daily to be sure it gets fixed right. At this point I still know nothing of the piston issues of the 6.4. The dealer promises to work with me to be sure the truck is warrantied and get it fixed correctly. They don't they refuse warranty and claim it to be a stuck injector due to bad fuel. I loose my cool and promptly tow it to a private owned diesel shop. Upon finishing the tear down it was found that a piston was simply cracked in half. No injectors stuck, nothing melted. It still had oil all over the piston and cylinder walls, and still had carbon on top of the pistons. Everything was fine just cracked in half, except for the fact that the idiots at the dealer left my fuel pump torn open so it corroded and bent the hell out of the compressor wheels on my turbo. We rebuilt the engine with the same injectors, had to use a new fuel pump, and did some other things. Deleted it, studded it, ceramic coated the pistons, and tuned the truck down some.
It ran for a year and about 20,000 miles and did the exact same thing again. This time when we called for warranty on the short block that was purchased from Ford they said that unless it spun a crank bearing they will not warranty a 6.4 short block. Another words we know the pistons are garbage so we just keep blowing those claims off. They use the fuel card as a way to put it on the customer. In my case I see these issues way faster and more often than most because my truck is an F450 box truck that runs around at about 80% of its max capacity at all times. you would never see it this often in a pick up.
This is a serious thing, Ford is ripping people off, and the two blocks I have are proof of it. What I need is expert opinions that know this is a huge well known issue, and will speak on it. I am also looking for customers of Ford with pictures, and bills that show these issues so I can prove it is a very prevalent issue. I want to go to court with at least 24 documented cases of this happening so I can show a jury that this is a prevalent thing that Ford is ignoring, and even installing more engines and parts with the same problems that come with a warranty they already know they will not honor. I have lost a lot more than money in this battle, I have almost lost my business, a chance at buying a home, and a few employees. You can call me an idiot for fixing the truck over and over but when your that far in, and a Ford dealer keeps giving you a warranty and claiming it is fixed right you keep telling yourself it has to be right this time. I have obviously now discovered the International Max Force pistons, which even more tell the tale that Ford is ripping people off and covering up the trash they are selling. A cab and chassis should of had those pistons from day one. The truck is rated as something like a 26,000 lb GCVWR. The worst part is I have owned nothing but Fords my whole life and ALWAYS serviced them at a dealer or myself with ALL ford parts. I was a die hard, I am that ******* that loves his 6.0 and will take it to the grave, I have 5 fords right now, and every time I get in one of them I want to vomit now.
I see this as way less of an issue than the 6.0 Head Gasket failures and look how far anyone got with a class action so far ?
good luck none the less
good luck none the less
Yes to tough row to hoe.
To the OP... if you haven't already, you may want to read this older thread on PSA and pm some of the people based on their comments.
Cracked piston leads to... MPD 472 build
- PowerStrokeArmy
MPD (Maryland Performance Diesel) was doing the rebuild for the OP, so they may have some opinion as well.
The tough part is that failures brought out by tuning are going to be dismissed by Ford. Failures due to running stock near the ragged edge of the specs are harder examples to find.
To the OP... if you haven't already, you may want to read this older thread on PSA and pm some of the people based on their comments.
Cracked piston leads to... MPD 472 build
- PowerStrokeArmyMPD (Maryland Performance Diesel) was doing the rebuild for the OP, so they may have some opinion as well.
The tough part is that failures brought out by tuning are going to be dismissed by Ford. Failures due to running stock near the ragged edge of the specs are harder examples to find.
No one is jumping on the "its your fault" band wagon, so chill. You're getting defensive when asked simple questions. The truck is working hard, no doubt! It is too bad you had incompetent mechanics throughout this experience. If someone cracked a piston with good injectors, and this vehicle was exclusively operated at 80% of its max rating, I would suggest International/Navistar HD pistons used in Maxx Force medium duty trucks installed. Hind sight is 20/20 I suppose.
I think you have claims against those shops... Ford and Navistar aren't going to do diddly for you.
The last failure however kinda concerns me...... You HAD delipped and coated pistons in there (I am assuming they weren't just Ford pistons that were coated......) and that generally solves the issue. Any signs of valve contact? Block and heads machined properly?
The last failure however kinda concerns me...... You HAD delipped and coated pistons in there (I am assuming they weren't just Ford pistons that were coated......) and that generally solves the issue. Any signs of valve contact? Block and heads machined properly?
Sorry for getting defensive but thats just what I am used to dealing with. Its an overwhelming story that is hard to believe no doubt and I get that. Tha worst part about the incompetent mechanics is they where all Ford dealers. I am putting it together with the same local shop right now with Max Force Pistons. I just wish I had known that two years ago. And for that matter Ford should be addressing that long before that even. The warranty not being hondered is one of two very serious points. The second being that the pistons are defective, and especially in a cab and chasis F450 model should not be in use. And to just keep selling me that same garbage is unexcusable. The last set that failed where not delipped. THey where factory Ford and only coated and the truck was detuned. I ran out of time to delip them waiting for Ford to settle the situation until the last minuite when I had to have a work truck, much the same as the situation I am in now. No signs of contact, just a crack like the last engine. The guys that did the build are top notch, just hadn't seen this issue enough to know how bad the 6.4 pistons are and that there are other options for pistons out there.
As for the 6.0 comparision I don't care about that. I'm not going the class action route its a waste of my money. I am going to win this case on my own with a lawyer. Once I do it will open many people up to do the same. I have the proof in the two blocks I kept from the last two failures. I just need a bunch of people to put thier proof on it to show its not an issue only I am expierencing, along with some experts to back the claim. Its hard to win against a big company like Ford no doubt, but facts are facts, and you just have to keep chipping away at them and not give up. I'm up against a loss of over $70,000. You don't walk away from something like that.
As for the 6.0 comparision I don't care about that. I'm not going the class action route its a waste of my money. I am going to win this case on my own with a lawyer. Once I do it will open many people up to do the same. I have the proof in the two blocks I kept from the last two failures. I just need a bunch of people to put thier proof on it to show its not an issue only I am expierencing, along with some experts to back the claim. Its hard to win against a big company like Ford no doubt, but facts are facts, and you just have to keep chipping away at them and not give up. I'm up against a loss of over $70,000. You don't walk away from something like that.
How much digging did you do and how much proof did you get of the fuel contamination? Unfortunately the only real recourse you have is the refusal of warranty. The fact that they said that is the ultimate cause and reason for denial of warranty means they should have had some form of proof. ALSO the fact that they sited that as a cause means they violated Ford's repair procedure for dealing with fuel system contamination... They should have replaced the entire fuel system at the first sign of water........
It also doesn't really help that the 6.4 was a stopgap motor... There was little to no support from Navistar (due to a lawsuit and the fact that they knew in 2011 ties were going to be cut) and almost no time for R&D on Ford's end. Not that it is an excuse...
It also doesn't really help that the 6.4 was a stopgap motor... There was little to no support from Navistar (due to a lawsuit and the fact that they knew in 2011 ties were going to be cut) and almost no time for R&D on Ford's end. Not that it is an excuse...
I *****ed and *****ed and they did not care. They gave me some bull**** pictures of the fuel pump. Never took a fuel sample that they would give me. From what I heard from other techs there they probably never even submitted it to warranty because they where already over on warranty claims for the year at that point. Support from Navistar is not my issue. I bought a Ford I should be taken care of by Ford. Its very clear they are screwing any customer with a 6.4 and refusing warranty and ignoring those customers. Its a bull**** way to do business and treat a loyal customer. You can't believe the crap they have pulled on me.
Trust me... We all believe the shady things stealerships do...
The problem is you will need to prove that their diagnosis was bs. You aren't the first the attempt a lawsuit over a 6.4 or a 6.0. Hell people have tried suing Ram over transmission issues and GM over injector problems. But, you are never going to get Ford for this... It never works out that way. You really should focus on the dealers....
The problem is, if they made you pay for the repairs you have the right to see every component and have complete understanding of where your money is going. Under warranty its a bit different, however the truck is still your possession. Now, if you didn't get your hands on the proof or didn't force them to prove their diagnosis in some way then that dealership/shop just pulled one over on you. And remember... Your beef probably isn't actually with Ford, its with the individual dealers and shops. Yes the motor has flaws and any reputable shop would be able to diag and solve the issues (especially with the money your have dumped into it). This honestly just sounds more like you got taken for a ride by a few different shops... And it is quite common to see this with 6.4s and 6.0s...
The problem is you will need to prove that their diagnosis was bs. You aren't the first the attempt a lawsuit over a 6.4 or a 6.0. Hell people have tried suing Ram over transmission issues and GM over injector problems. But, you are never going to get Ford for this... It never works out that way. You really should focus on the dealers....
The problem is, if they made you pay for the repairs you have the right to see every component and have complete understanding of where your money is going. Under warranty its a bit different, however the truck is still your possession. Now, if you didn't get your hands on the proof or didn't force them to prove their diagnosis in some way then that dealership/shop just pulled one over on you. And remember... Your beef probably isn't actually with Ford, its with the individual dealers and shops. Yes the motor has flaws and any reputable shop would be able to diag and solve the issues (especially with the money your have dumped into it). This honestly just sounds more like you got taken for a ride by a few different shops... And it is quite common to see this with 6.4s and 6.0s...
That kind of talk is why no one ever gets anywhere. I am out close to $80,000. I am not walking away from it. Ford sold garbage, Ford was involved through their customer service in the repairs and in communication with the shops. I'm done with Ford blaming the shops, and the shops blaming Ford. What I need is proof that its a prevalent issue that a lot of people have experienced and that is why I am here. To find people with receipts, bills, work orders, pictures, of the same thing I have experienced. People that will put their name on this paperwork and say yes it happened to me. And experts that will attest to the issues. Its not an impossible task, you just have to show the proof and not quit. Just because they have the money does not mean they just win.
I am not saying its not an issue... Its a well documented problem with these trucks. It is literally no different than the HG/Oil cooler failures on a 6.0...
I am telling you that the problem is a cracked piston IS a valid warranty claim. Your issue comes with the fact that the individual dealers/shops refused warranty because of a fuel system issue... That's the part that you are going to have trouble with. You will need a clear timeline, documentation, and proof that warranty should NOT have been denied for YOUR motor.
There were a crap ton of 6.4s replaced under warranty BECAUSE of cracked pistons... You literally have no idea the numbers here. Many were completely stock trucks. Even more of them were due to tuning however. Most of the piston problems you will come across here in the internet land are going to be from tuning. Most of the stock trucks got fresh short or long blocks under warranty. And that's the point I am trying to make to you... If you can prove that your situation is bs then you have a case again the dealers/shops for essentially scamming you out of a warranty (and filling their pockets...). Your warranty claim being turned down by Ford is due to the techs, shops, and dealers providing information...
If you are looking for help with that then you need to look at people who ran into similar situations that used the same shops you did. It doesn't even have to be 6.4s... If you and your lawyers can prove a pattern of warranty denial that is unjust then you have a case. But Ford does warranty cracked pistons... But not if the info they get from a tech is proof enough that a leaky or hung injector caused the failure.
I am telling you that the problem is a cracked piston IS a valid warranty claim. Your issue comes with the fact that the individual dealers/shops refused warranty because of a fuel system issue... That's the part that you are going to have trouble with. You will need a clear timeline, documentation, and proof that warranty should NOT have been denied for YOUR motor.
There were a crap ton of 6.4s replaced under warranty BECAUSE of cracked pistons... You literally have no idea the numbers here. Many were completely stock trucks. Even more of them were due to tuning however. Most of the piston problems you will come across here in the internet land are going to be from tuning. Most of the stock trucks got fresh short or long blocks under warranty. And that's the point I am trying to make to you... If you can prove that your situation is bs then you have a case again the dealers/shops for essentially scamming you out of a warranty (and filling their pockets...). Your warranty claim being turned down by Ford is due to the techs, shops, and dealers providing information...
If you are looking for help with that then you need to look at people who ran into similar situations that used the same shops you did. It doesn't even have to be 6.4s... If you and your lawyers can prove a pattern of warranty denial that is unjust then you have a case. But Ford does warranty cracked pistons... But not if the info they get from a tech is proof enough that a leaky or hung injector caused the failure.
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