IT ISN'T THE TRANS YOU NEED TO WORRY ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Holly crap I feel like a freaking broken record player here... There is no safe tune for a 6.4!.!.!.!.! Stock is your safe bet. The pistons in these trucks aren't designed for the 600+hp that the motor can and WILL put out when completely stock. The transmission is a freaking tank, there literally isn't anything in a HD application that can stand up to it. But, the motor itself is the strong AND weak point. The bottom end can handle a nuclear bomb being set off... The pistons, lifters, and head gaskets can't. The start and fall of any 6.4 is quite simple.

Take it and tune/delete it. Cool right? lets see what hp we can run. Ask our local diesel mechanic Toren how much HP these things can handle stock... Roughly 700 hp melted a piston. Tranny is just fine.


But it isn't a simple matter of hp mark here. The 6.4 isn't designed to run 450-500hp... Its a BUS motor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you want a true safe number? STOCK with tranny tuning. You will still kick the a** of any stock cummins out there. Or watch their transmission fall apart.



Sure, some of us run high hp tunes for fuel economy. But we do so understanding that the 500-650hp we are putting to the wheels could cost us a motor. It isnt an uncommon failure for a 6.4 to crack a piston or drop a lifter.

There is no "safe" higher hp tune for a 6.4. These motors CAN build upwards of 680-700hp on a stock block. But I promise you one thing... It will empty your bank account in short order.

Lets talk money here... A new short block from ford is $8k-10k... A long block is $12-18k.............. To build a 6.4 to be truly bullet proof is in excess of $15k-20k depending on labor rates.









If you are going to keep your foot out of it than a 250+hp tune is fine... Seriously, the 5r110W can handle it no problem. You will find failures sooner than you would like. But you will get the performance you are looking for. But PLEASE don't be that guy that comes on here b1tching about spending $15k on a motor/build because your tuned truck went boom.







Maybe its because I am drunk, or maybe because I don't give a fat flying fk tonight... Sorry for the rant, but I swear this same topic comes up daily. These trucks are great for DD/weekend tow pigs. But we need to know your goals before we can tell you what a safe tune is. Sorry if I come off strong, people come on here and see they can run a 300+hp tune and expect the truck to last. It doesn't work that way.

 

Throw the 310 on there and run it.

Kidding. Listen to this guy^^^. If you drive halfway normal buy some traction bars and run a little bigger tune. If not leave it stock.

Oh unless you have $$$, then by all means tune her up and rag on it.

 

crazy couldn't have said it any better. The 6.4 is no joke when it breaks, but they sure are powerhouses.
The stock tune is your safest bet for reliability/longevity as mentioned.
If you desire some power, then use the 210 tune, but keep your foot out of it. ALWAYS keep an eye on fluid levels etc.,
Don't be surprised if you have a cracked piston, warped heads, or bad lifters, it's just the name of the game with a tuned 6.4.

 

Soooo things are beginning to get contradicting on these forums here. I like to hear a multitude of opinions when it comes to things and ideas, It's the nature of the type of work I'm in, the ol' "The more eyes, the better" type of attitude. So I have been reading and studying up on these forums in regards to deleting and tuning my 09 6.4, that I'm in love with for these first two months I've had it btw.

However, at first all I hear is "delete it and run hot tunes for good performance, longevity and economy but don't be an idiot" basically what is being said here. But recently I've seen comments to go as far as saying "leave it stock for reliability".

So someone like me and I'm guessing the OP as well, we are fairly new here to this 6.4L world. Soo, my new perspective on these trucks is to maintain it like the ol' girl she is, delete it and run a mild tune for performance and reliability and understand that while they're a blast to drive, do not over do it cuz things can go wrong quick.

But I mean, I would rather know that if I need to pass that guy doing 5 under in a 55 that I can get on her and she will do what I need and be fine afterwards. Hell all the negativity going on in these forums makes me afraid to haul fire wood up hill with the truck.

Now I'm not saying anything bad about this forum and website. I'm just looking for more of a clarification on how to take care of these things properly and hearing more positive stories rather than horror stories. That being said, I'm saving my pennies for full deletes and tuning. Hoping that is the right way to go.

 

I'm going to run the Gearheads race tune with the delete exhaust. I don't drive mine hard really. Just waiting to get my exhaust installed.

 

Coltonf43,
When I 1st came here I was surprised by the amount of negative comments, but I soon found out that many new guys(lower then 10 posts) find this site and complain about how they have blown their motor running 300+ HP tunes or picked up a truck used with a ton of issues. This wears on some of the exp diesel guys here repeating the same thing over and over again. It is so easy to drop $500 on a tuner and have over double the factory HP.
I use my truck as a toy hauler and I run a 70hp tune. Mainly because I know I can't keep my foot out of it and I tow. for some reason everything is very expensive on these trucks.
But they are a bunch of good guys here.... Even that Toren guy.:wink:

 

But they are a bunch of good guys here.... Even that @Toren guy.:wink:

Dont say his name three times. lease:

 

Oh the guy that is " smarter than God"? LOL

 

WHO HEAR CALLED MY NAME!?!?!



I contradicted the god comment in that thread Zmann BTW....


Its very simple and seems contradicting buts its really NOT!

THESE WERE NEVER DESIGNED TO RUN TUNING!!!!

They do have inherent issues stock if the emissions is left in tact. That's where deleting comes in. The problem is that that only nets a small bump in MPG....and THAT (mpg gain) seems to be what most people are after with their 8k pound truck for some reason?!?! The only way to get the big bump in MPG is to run the hot tunes. Simply put the truck is lighter on its feet due to the HP/weight ratio. It takes less to get to speed and hold it I.E. less fuel used. The issue at least with the 6.4 is the same issue with the 7.3...they use oil pocketed pistons!!! There is a air pocket that gets filled with oil when the piston is at the lowest point of travel in the cylinder. This is to cool the top of the piston and help keep longevity. International went away from this set up with the 6.0. They were solid slugs. They didn't need them. Add DPF regen and now we need to cool the pistons down to keep them alive. The issue is when someone decides to delete and tune and wants better MPG they end up running a high HP hot tune. This puts the piston right back into the heat range it was in during regen's with one big factor added......CYLINDER PRESSURE!!! The pistons cant handle the extra pressure and heat and give out. That's a HUGE reason why we all switch to the International "HD" pistons....or the pistons Int. uses in their emissions exempt trucks that have the 6.4. They are solid and rarely have issues.

The reason it keeps jumping around as far as opinions, is more and more of these are getting deleted and tuned and more and more issues are arising. The problem also lies in the poster and their underlying "wants". Most will come on here and ask "What is the most reliable and safe tune to run in my 6.4?" The answer has been and always will be STOCK with the emissions turned OFF. THATS IT!!! There is no "BUT" after that it becomes about wants. "I want to go faster" "I want more power" " I want more MPG" "I want to blow smoke" or whatever. The fact of the matter is that it really will depend on so many things that there really is only the one (stock) answer at this time as far as the "safest and most reliable" tune. After that be ready to pay to play. These are awesome power platforms with one of the most OVERBUILT fuel systems in a LD diesel rig. They have massive potential and are super fun when turned up, but it will cost money. My engine failure had nothing to do with the pistons in my case. I had an injector stick open on a WOT sled pull. It just goes to show that anything can and will fail at an in-opportune time. Anything is possible in these.

On my transmission....I haven't really pushed that hard at the power level I am at......yet.....I did take the opportunity with the engine out for rebuild to add a billet input and triple disc converter....just to keep her going. The OP's issue with the trans is the same issue I have also talked about A LOT on here and that is that these trucks NEED traction bars!!! The axles wrap bad stock let alone with 1k+ of torque going to them. Add the bars and you'll be surprised at how good and crisp the trans feels.

 

I didn't mean to offend anyone or get anyone fired up haha. Like I said, I just hear a lot of one thing and a lot of the other. And I agree, a lot of it is that people don't quite know what they're getting into when it comes to adding power and stressing parts that are designed for certain limitations. That's the category I fall into myself is I really am new to this motor and I am going to try my best to make sure this $$$ I bought this truck with is going to good use and will last me a long time. I've gone thru three trucks in 2 years because of buying old and used vehicles that didn't prove to be reliable. Soo, I bought this bad boy hoping that spending some money now will give me a vehicle for the foreseeable future.

So, my thing as are a pile of others is how do I make this bad boy last me for the next 10 years. I'm getting the impression from you guys that know more about it is to delete the emissions if legal in your neck of the woods and make sure that your not overheating.

That being said, what is the better option to go with after going with the dpf delete,

1) EGR delete and new CAC pipe and intake elbow.
or
2) Cold air intake set up.

I'm scratching any savings I can get aside from the household bills so I cant just dump it all in at once. I'd rather do it in steps anyway so I can understand the progression and actual performance change as I go.

Any suggestions?

Thanks All!

 

Lol no worries dude, run a mild tune and you should be fine.

That said the egr system has a very low failure rate compared to the 6.0. You are safe to run it and have it shut off for a short time, but it will clog eventually and there is always the possibility of it rupturing. That can cause a hydrolock situation and very easily damage/destroy your heads. I actually have a friend that did just that... Horizontal cooler ruptured and he kept pulling his boat home. Parked it and had it towed to a shop only to find out both heads were cracked. So its good to get rid of them all together.

The cold air intake doesn't "need" to be done. But from research and shop findings its become apparent that the stock filter can't keep up with the turbos. Long story short, the restriction put on the high pressure turbo causes the bearings to be, for lack of a better term "sucked out". If you are on top of maintenance the egr delete is probably the more pressing matter but its also one of the most painful things you can do in the driveway on these trucks. The CAI is literally a 10 min job... Same with things like a CCV reroute and a coolant filter.

The bigger question is what is the overall health of the truck? What do your deltas look like? Any popping out of the intake when warm (watch DieselTechRon's video on this)? Excessive blow by (When warm remove the oil fill cap and set it in the hole. Does it stay put or blow off)?

If for example your truck is going to need an oil cooler just do the egr delete while you are in there. And at the same time switch to an elc coolant.



There is a lot more to think about than one thing or another. If the truck is healthy there is nothing that is really pressing to do once deleted. Keep an eye on vitals (Eot, ECT, Rail pressure, EGTS!!!!!, battery voltage, and whatever else you like to watch) and do mods as you get the chance. Keep on top of oil changes and fuel filters. Make sure you drain and fill coolant every 30k miles AND USE FORD GOLD!! NO GREEN CRAP!

 

Thanks a lot man! I appreciate the words of wisdom. I see you on here frequently. The truck is actually been taken care of real well. I got it at 71,000 and the older gentleman before me that I spoke with before purchasing loved it and took real good care of it. He just had no more need for the power and size so he traded in for a 1/2 ton. So I'm lucky that way and I plan on keeping the maintenance pristine. Like I said, my goal is to have it for awhile more so than anything.

Your friend with the EGR clogging on him, how man miles was he running it shut off? Did it rupture cuz he was working the truck pretty good while towing? I've read and seen a lot of things online about the EGR deletes and how to tackle them and they seem manageable for a weekend warrior like myself. But like you said, definately not an in and out job haha. So maybe il do the exhaust and the small quicker things first and wait on the EGR removal for a good weekend this winter haha.

I'd really be impressed by ford and international to see my truck hit 200k miles without a major catastrophic failure. I do know things break as said above, that's for sure. But as far as some kind of $5000-$10,000 bill that I can't repair myself. I'm hoping that holds off for awhile.

Thanks again!

 

Well I don't plan on drag racing a massive truck. I have a 92 fox body mustang pushing 700hp for that. Basically I drive my truck like a truck. But I do like to have a better throttle response when needed.

If that comes with warnings I understand. Thats really the nature of a truck pushing 7 years old regardless. **** will break regardless even in stock form. Basically I plan on keeping this truck a long time and want to keep it runing as good as possible while being able to get out of its way needed

 

It should be fine then. keep on top of fluids and watch egt's. It looks like your truck was maintained fairly well by previous owner.

 

He actually isn't even deleted... I don't even know what caused it, oil cooler is healthy. And because I never got to see the truck till after he called me saying it won't crank I have no way of knowing if it was low on coolant before the cooler sh1t the bed.

The truck is deleted and studded now but to the tune of around 10 grand...


As for how long they will last... Maintain the fuel system and change the oil. Also once you hit 125-150k miles plan on changing rocker arms and push rods. That will help avoid lifter failure. Don't hammer on the truck until she is above 160* and you should have no problems. Any diesel can live well past 200k with proper maintenance. The 6.4 just needs a little extra love and tlc.

 

Geez that's rough. That's what I'm hoping I don't run into. But, you never know, things do happen. But that's what I'm thinking, just give it some good ol' TLC and she should be alright.

Thanks a lot all!

 

A mild tune is in the realm of a 100-150hp tune.


The other thing I forgot to mention about warming the truck up... For those of you who like me live in the frozen north. IF you are going to run a tune for millage remember that when cold the motor isn't going to be able to burn all of the fuel efficiently. That means cylinder pressures are going to be through the roof (so to speak). Personally I think a lot of the deleted and tuned 6.4s here in mn that blow head gaskets or crack pistons do so during the winter for a reason. Down south or where its not below freezing for 5 months out of the year its not an issue... But for us up here it is more important than people realize to let the truck get those pistons and block warmed up before getting on the freeway.

Just speculation, but its something to think about. It is definitely another factor in what is "safe" to run on these trucks.

I think this all plays a roll in a 6.0 as well, but nowhere near as much as on a 6.4.

 

Thank! Good to know!

That is good food for thought, living down here in balmy Texas definitely not as much of an issue but my blaw lives in Colorado Springs so definitely something I will pass on to him

 

Main thing is make sure not to skip on the maintance. I change my oil every 5,000 miles, fuel filters every 10,000 miles. I deleted mine because of the stupid re jen coming on all the time. running an H&S minimax, with the hot damn tune and a S&B filter. I dont beat on the thing, and it runs great! Only probs so far has nothing to do with the motor. been a great truck for me. btw, reason for getting the s&b filter is because we have a bean seller across the street from where I work, and its way cheaper in the long run to just clean my filter instead of buying stock filters. Just my 02 cents guys

 

Crazy Sob, you said to plan on changing rocker arms and push rods between 125-150k miles. How daunting of a task is that and what kinda price range would would work like that cost?

 

If you have experience and have removed valve covers in the past its not all that daunting... If you have no experience though I wouldn't recommend you start off with a 6.4 lol...

A lot of shops will pull the cab to do rocker arms, and that does add a bit more cost. You lose a lot more fluids and personally I think there is a bit more risk in doing it this way. You can expect to spend anywhere from $1800-$2500 to have a shop do rocker arms. Most of the time its more because most people choose to have more work done once that cab goes up. Well, most people with half a brain. Perfect time to replace up pipes and have the turbos rebuilt. Not to mention an oil cooler... And all of your pulleys, tensioners, and belts... Front cover inspection... Etc. There is always more to do once that cab goes up.

But to do it yourself in your driveway expect anywhere from 8-12 hours of work if you have a pretty good idea of what you are doing. 90% of the job is just getting things out of the way. If its your first time doing it just plan to have 2 full days just incase you need a few extra beer breaks.

The passenger side is a bit easier because you don't have the degas bottle and fuel cooler in the way, but both aren't hard to get moved.

Again, overall its not that hard... Its just tight and there is a lot of crap in the way, not to mention that there isn't a lot of room for those valve covers to clear the valve train because of the firewall. And that's why most shops will pull or tilt the cab slightly.

 

Thats good to know and explained well. Appreciate that. I also saw traction bars mentioned, what brand or type would you recommend?

 

Flight Fabrication traction bars. 100%

 

I like PMF myself

 

PMF FTW!!! If I couldn't run PMFs I would run OUO.

 

I just ordered a H&S mini maxx and 5" flow pro down pipe back exhaust for my 08 f250 with 140k. I just bought this truck this summer so I dont know much about it but going off the general condition it was well taken care of. I plan on using it to pull my 37ft fifth wheel toyhauler and its my daily driver when I'm not at work over seas. I'm planning on running it on one of the mild tunes for everyday use but what tune would you guy say would be best for pulling my camper it weights in at 16K? I did notice the mini maxx has a 210 towing tune? I had a buddy tell me to just set it on 300hp and drive it, ("it will be fine") but I have my doubts about that with 140k already on the truck. Any advise is greatly appreciated!

 

Do not tow that trailer on those settings. Mild tune on the stock setting. Trust me because I have same set up and same trailer, and blew the head gaskets.

 

ok thanks for the heads up Boo Boo I'll stick to the lower hp tunes.