There isn't any "figuring out" to do....
Be careful what you put in the tank, and you won't have issues. Simple.

 

For sure there's logic there, but I simply don't believe that all these poor souls who've been saddled with warranty denial somehow didn't sleep at the pump and accidentally put DEF or Gas in their tank and forget about it and woke up to a failed CP4 pump. I believe the pump isn't as robust as the CP3 and any tiny amount of water from less than ideal pumps or stations that don't get used as much as truck stops could be the culprit here. I also think the water separator in pre 17's weren't good enough at protecting the CP4...and that sentiment has been echoed by several master diesel tech's I've seen on other forums, etc.

I don't know too many people that have the time to go to a station, run a quick test on a sample of diesel and then fill their trucks.

 

Exactly what @SOOTIE said... The issue is not the CP4.2 but rather user head space and timing.

1. get your gas from a quality distributor. Many times you get what you pay for.
2. Use a fuel additive with lubricity supplement to counter act ULSD fuel at every fill up IAW instructions on the bottle.
3. Empty your water separator monthly at a minimum.
4. Change both fuel filters every other oil change ~15-20K miles

Executing the above the CP4.2 will deliver many miles of service.

 

What he ^^ said! Do these things and in all likelihood you'll be golden.

To add to #1, not only a high quality distributor but high volume station. For example, if your local Shell station doesn't churn much diesel, you should probably find a station that has that higher volume like a truck stop. Diesel fuel attracts moisture so the higher the station volume, the less likely it'll have absorbed a lot of water. Also, as much as I'm a fan of biodiesel, I try to use low volumes where possible as biodiesel is much more hygroscopic.

On my last point....I wish stations were required to post how much biodiesel is in the mix.

 

Hiya,

One key factor in making sure you don't have water in the fuel getting to the secondary pump in any Diesel is to use a treatment that is classified as a "demulsifier". This will cause any moisture in the fuel to condense into large water droplets that the separator can easily collect and then you remove by draining. Currently the only treatments I know of that are demulsifiers are Amsoil, Optilube and Stanadyne. I run Amsoil "All-in-one" with a little Optilube lubricity added in all my Diesels.

The other type of water treatment products are "emulsifiers" and blend the water with the fuel to pass through the system. (Think Kraft oil and vinegar salad dressing, the kind that came in the packet and you would mix yourself and shake.) These type products work well on older medium pressure mechanical/pop-off injector Diesels such as AG or off-road equipment made before the switch to low sulfur Diesel in the early '90's however, they should be avoided in modern Diesels as any moisture in the fuel will degrade the lubricity of the fuel and possibly initiate component failure in the fuel lubricated high pressure pumps like the CP3 and CP4's.

Another factor in fuel lubricated high pressure pump failure is aeration of the fuel in the primary or low pressure "lift" phase. If air is blended with the fuel due to low pressure or flow to the high pressure inlet (suction) side, the air will degrade the lubricity of the fuel as it passes through the high pressure pump and potentially cause metal to metal contact of components. Ford going to a larger lift pump/filter setup on the '17+ models tells me they understood this factor and took steps to counteract it. I've talked to the FASS people about a system for the '17+ Fords and they expect to release one soon. I had a FASS system on all my Dodges so I may end up getting one for my F-350 as well for the extra peace of mind.

 

Great write up. Ford in it's infinite wisdom has a lift pump, unlike other manufactures, and DFCM which removes air from the fuel lines and then again at the HPFF return before reaching the HPFP.

 

How many of you are emptying your fuel water separators once a month? PLEASE tell me this isn't required? I just purchased my first Ford Diesel after owning and towing heavy with 4 RAM trucks and I never had to worry about this.

 

I do mine every few tanks. It's easy....doesn't take but a few minutes. And to be honest, I don't feel this is a Ford thing or any manufacturer for that matter. Shoot, I drain the filters on my Deere and IH tractors. To me draining of water is a diesel thing.

And for what it is worth, I've yet to see any water drain from my 2017. But an ounce of prevention....

 

I drain mine at least once a month. I get empty 5 gallon hydraulic oil buckets from work and empty the drained fuel into it from my glass jar and when its full I take it to my local shop to be burned in a waste oil furnace. Really easy to do and is part of the gig to owning one of these trucks.

 

I also think the water separator in pre 17's weren't good enough at protecting the CP4...and that sentiment has been echoed by several master diesel tech's I've seen on other forums, etc.

Cause the owner's are using a 100 year old mindset when adding fuel?? Tech's SHOULD be smart enough to know it's all about the fuel quality that goes into the tank while not about relying solely on filters to protect the system.



I will agree that the 11-16 OEM fuel filtering needed to be a more robustr design BUT it does work. It just doesn't work very well when you use crappy fuel. People may laugh at those buying a $700+ pre-pump filter setup.......but then again it's cheaper than a fuel system repair. Those pre-pumps setups can even be cheaper when one puts their mind to their own design.


SO is the problem the filters........or the owner's being smart about fuel quality?? Then consider WHY Ford will deny a warranty claim. Yea.....

 

Its been the same story for years now... Doesn't matter if the truck is ram, gm, ford, cat, blah blah blah... Every common rail diesel is extremely sensitive to fuel. Ram and GM trucks had all kinds of injectors issues well before Ford ditched HEUI in 2008. A HUGE part of those problems were poor fuel quality/water...

The filter setup is better on the Ram, and slightly better on GM (on later model trucks...) but you still need to drain the water separator. Its annoying to crawl under the truck every month, but welcome to the life of owning a diesel. I drain mine every other Monday, my 2 neighbors with 6.7s do the exact same thing. They both have well over 200k on 2012s and haven't had a single issue with their fuel systems. My 6.4 never gave me any trouble and I don't expect my 6.7 to.

Its one of those "shortcomings" that is easily manageable as long as you keep up with maintenance. Additives only help if you actually drain the water out... And there is no help for your truck if you always seek out the cheapest diesel from low volume stations. Got a friend with a 2013 Ram, its in the shop for the 4th time now for injectors (and probably pump)... He runs a lot of off road fuel because its "free". He also complains because its never been fixed under warranty (they always find rust) yet none of their heavy equipment have had issues. Can't possibly be fuel he says...

 

After reading everyone’s comments it seems the C4P testing was done in too controlled environments. With that said we all know manufacturers put hundreds of thousands miles on test vehicles, that is only a few out of thousands mass produced. The issue I have with this pump is there is little to no warning when it fails and the vehicle just shuts off now you can argue all you want but unless you have had it happen to you - you have no place talking. Yes I fill at high volume fuel stations, add the Ford approved Additive to the fuel, and drain the separator regular. What I am really hearing is the filter and water separator system at least on the early Fords, and GM’s was not up to the Challenge of real world conditions. For me and my 2016 F250 I will look into a better filter/water separator system cause until you get the message reducing engine power etc... and it leaves you dead in the water has happen three times now first two was because the first owner let the cap seal from what I am guessing was when they added fuel additive and it sucked up against the pickup tube in the tank and shut the fuel off I thought it was fuel filters but what happen was once I open the fuel line it let the vacuum off the line and the seal fell back into the tank it took about three hundred mile before it happened again the diesel mechanic I used for my 07 experience the samething with his 16 so drop the tank and yup cap seal laying there in the well where the pickup pipe is. This last time I could hear the lift pump making noise just before loosing all power but the truck would stay running. I an just praying I haven’t hurt the CP4 and it’s just the lift pump that’s not building enough pressure. I have the disaster kit installed so if the CP4 failed to it’s just clean the return lines, and tank but I didn’t see any silver in the lift pump filter so I am hopeful still going to drop the tank. I am strongly thinking of adding a extra fuel filter/ water separator system as I tow a 10k fifth wheel. With all this said I truly do like this truck and will do what it takes to make it more reliable. Thanks for letting me ramble

 

I wouldn't trust any fuel line after a failure thou. I'd replace every line I could cause it's still flowing in the system up to the under hood filter. Not to mention there are reports of CP4 failures and installed "disaster kits" still letting metal get thru to the injectors. Yes, it happens. Add a DieselSite dual filter kit. Keeps most that stuff out of the lift pump (HFCM) when the CP4 fails. Maybe saves the HFCM and supply lines.

Do I like any of it? Hell no. Do I like how "sensitive" the fuel system seems to be with air, water, or metal?? NO way. Can I do things to help prevent the worst possible issue?? You bet! So I'm always wanting to learn more, fix it, learn more, mod it again, learn more, make better decisions, etc etc etc

 

I hear ya heavy just wish the fuel system more robust. The 6.7 is such a power house but not when your sitting on the side of the road and have to be concerned about if you will have another failure can’t we just go back to the days without the dang EPA getting into it

 

I see more vehicles on the side the road with flat tires over "modern diesel" trucks with the hoods up. I've driven enough on I-95, I-20, I-85, I-65, I-10 to know what's going on the roads out there. Not to mention whatever local areas I'm in for that time period. It is what it is.

 

More work, but less money than ready to install filters: (it's an old topic but was just discussing it in another thread- it has been flawless for 40K+ miles)

Fuel Filter &Water Seperator Kit

This is that guide I promised for the fuel filter water separator kit I designed. I added an auxiliary fuel filter and water separator in front of my factory water separator on my 2014 6.7. I used factory style quick connects I found online so this is easy to remove if needed for some reason. I...

www.powerstroke.org

 

So quick connect is not needed in your setup?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I’m shopping now for a 2017+ and hopefully they will find a solution to this issue. I guess Ram has went back to the CP3 for 2021.
I would prefer a Ford but this really has me concerned or the fear factor of it’s possible and is happen more then it should.

 

Ford's 2020 and 2021 trucks are a different pump versus the 2011-2019 trucks.

 

I know this happens but I also think most of us here on the forum are in our own little echo chamber at times on this issue. If we get on here all you hear about is the CP4 failures. I would have to guess in all the trucks made in those 8-10 years the failure rate is very low. Does it happen to often? Probably yes. Is it for the most part preventable? Somewhat. If you do the correct maintenance and just make sure you got good fuel I feel like you shouldn't have to many problems. It's not like this failure is as common as head gaskets on a 6.0 or about any problem with the 6.4s.

Still have to agree with the sentiment of screw the EPA and making the fuel not a lubricanty lol.

 

I wish I could find a reliable source for production numbers for the 2011-2016, and the 2017-2019 6.7L motors. Last I recall what I found was like maybe 500k diesel motors from 2011-2016. Something like that.

 

500k produced or 500k had issues? It would be very interesting information to know and would go a long way in easing some of my worries on my truck or making them much worse lol. I agree with most that this is a ridiculous issue to have happening and we shouldn't have to worry about it but I also wonder with as much time as a lot of us spend on here if we aren't just working ourselves up to an extent.

 

I was referencing overall motor production numbers, not motors with CP4 issues. I did find one post saying that in 2011 alone it was 300k vehicles/trucks produced. You have to shrink that down to vehicles with the 6.7L motor only. Either way it's a VERY small overall percentage of production vehicles/motors that have CP4 issues.

For example: Ford makes 500k trucks a year, 250k with 6.7L motors. Not bad. Then figure say 10% have the CP4 issue regardless of owner induced or just a HPFP failure. That would be 25k trucks having the problem. Using 2011-2019 model years that would be only 200k trucks with CP4 issues. Yes it sounds like a huge number BUT that would be like EVERY PSD.ORG member having a Ford 6.7L diesel with the same CP4 issue. Which we all know isn't the case. Cause if the numbers were really that high the boards would be flooded with people complaining about it.

 

500K milestone was in 2013. So it’s probably getting closer to 2MM by now.

Ford Has Built a Half Million F-Series Trucks with the 6.7L Powerstroke V8

Ford Motor Company has announced that the 500,000th 6.7L Powerstroke V8 turbo diesel has been installed into a Ford F Series Super Duty pickup – a remarkable milestone for Ford as they continue to be the only company selling a heavy duty diesel truck in the US that relies on a drivetrain that is...

www.torquenews.com

 

Okay, I made a pretty good guess then over the 2011-2019 years. Let's say for the sake it's 2 million motors out there for those years. Give 10% of that total will have a fatal HPFP experience. That's still 200k trucks with a HPFP issue, not that huge in the big scheme of things. By no means is it any excuse but the numbers are pretty small year to year with the HPFP issue. I'm pretty confident to say that there's less than 10% on average. If you shrank that down to the total number sold by a dealership it could seem bigger but it's still only 10%.

Once again, not making excuses, just looking at the numbers and data as best I can find.

 

The other thing to factor in is owner induced failure vs part defect percentage. You cant count pump failures due to things like def or gas contamination as they have nothing to do with Ford or the pump itself.

 

I agree but almost impossible to determine. Which is why I stated:

regardless of owner induced or just a HPFP failure

So if we just accept "HPFP failure" in group as a parts issue or owner induced we can capture the larger %. We would need to nit pick down the actual failure to get to a "True Parts Failure Rate" to get to that "real" % with a +/- of course.

 

And if I'm wrong please correct me, we are just looking at the failures in the Fords correct? Isn't this same pump used in the Rams and GMs? If you can take into account their failures also I feel like we may be making a mountain out of a mole hill. The only reason I think extreme maintenance and caution should be used concerning the fuel system on these trucks is the astronomical cost of repair should it, in a very small percentage, actually grenade and ruin the rest of the system.

 

Yep...add on the other brands the overall number of HPFPs used goes up, hence the overall numbers may look bad but IF the math still shows only 10% failure rate it's pretty small overall.

 

There are a number of class action lawsuits against Ford for the issue. If that ever gets litigation, we may find out the actual failure rate. I have a quality management background and 10% would be astronomical. My guess is that it is less than 1%.

 

Same background here. I doubt we would ever see real numbers, but 1% failure to me would be "normal" even with owner induced causes of failure.

That class action noise is so wack. Yes some are going to get their money back plus some, while the lawyers make it rain. LOL

I just wish my Owner's Manual had a misprint that said Low Sulfur Diesel Only. That's a win/win. LOL