Map and Baro at 12? ... you way up in the mountains?
EBP should also read with the Map and Baro, not zero
so maybe a problem there

I suggest using ForScan to look at the sensor data, the "tuners" do not do a good job with some of the PiDs

There is a good chance the EBP sensor is giving problems here or a boost leak in the charge air system
need to pick one direction and test that, then move to the other

Cut-N-Paste from my help files:
Gonna own a diesel, you need to be able to get codes and monitor the system when there is a problem

These should be mandatory for any 6.0
Fuel pressure gauge -- M12x1.5 thread adapter
Base oil pressure gauge -- test port on front of oil cooler housing 9/16x18 imperial o-ring fitting

I suggest downloading ForScan and using the OBDLink MX+ or the BAFX adapter for troubleshooting
Torque Pro would be good for everyday use with an old phone or tablet
Scan Gauge is small and simple -- can be mounted in front of the instrument cluster
there are other monitors, but the price goes higher

Download FORScan

you do not need the license for troubleshooting

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The MAP / Baro reading was at around 5000 feet, which has a typical absolute air pressure around 12.2. It sounds like the EBP 0 may be normal for the Edge products (CTS EBP values?). I'll get another code reader and see if my CTS2 is missing something.

 

Any DTC's? - edited...I see you already said none present.

It sure sounds like you might have a boost leak, but fuel pressure of anything <50psi under any conditions is too low as well. That can damage injectors if it runs like that for too long.

Unplug your VGT solenoid connector while the truck is running...do you hear an exhaust tone change? Beware, this will set a code, but you can just ignore it And clear later.

-jokester

 

I just checked the code with FORScan. The only possibly relevant code that came up is p0098, related to the intake air temp sensor. On inspection, the connector will not clip together.

I made a boost pressure tester (

), and it held pressure well. I didn't hear or find any leaks.

I tested the VGT solenoid resistance at 4.3 ohms. That's apparently just slightly high, but it's not either shorted or open circuit. I haven't tried unplugging the VGT solenoid while running yet.

I also ran an injector click test with FORScan, and all 8 sounded pretty consistent with each other.

 

IAT1 and IAT2 are used in the fuel calculations -- so need to fasten that connection and check with ForScan to see the thermistors are reading

 

I tried unplugging the VGT solenoid while idling, and there was a clear change in the exhaust tone. It changes quickly when unplugging and plugging it back it.

I pulled out the EBP sensor to check it and the tube. Both seemed clean, but the sensor was only hand tight. Tightening it up didn't seem to make any difference.

I tried to do the VGT relearn procedure (Diablosport Predator Update for 04 Truck - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums), but I'm not sure it worked. I never got a P1000 code. And, no difference in the exhaust smoke.

I captured some ForScan data while holding the brake and pressing the accelerator. Top to bottom, the PIDs are MAP, EBP, EBP desired, ICP, ICP desired, IAT2, VGT%, EGR desired, EGR actual, EOT, ECT. I was getting smoke before I let off.

This is just idling, and the VGT did a cycle.

I have some just driving around, but I'm not sure it will be useful.

I did notice that the VGT% tends to go to 85% at zero load (coasting or sitting at a stop). Another thing I noticed was that sometimes the smoke is more gray than black. I noticed this a handful of times before, but thought it was just the sun angle making it look different. Usually it just appears black, and I have a nice layer of soot on my camper tie down that is behind the exhaust.

 

A lot of jitters in Map and ICP -- thinking those should be more steady

 

Yeah, I noticed that too. They only do that when idling, though. Maybe it just looks like they're jittering because of the small range on the graph.

 

I tested turning off each of the injectors like in this video. It ran way worse after turning each one off.

I pulled off the oil filler cap while running and there's virtually no blow by.

I found the problem with the IAT2 sensor connection - the rubber seal in the connector was damaged and prevent in from fully seating.

So, VGT and EGR valve both seem to be working correctly. Maybe the injectors where already damaged from the low fuel pressure before I replaced the spring? Are there any other tests I can do, or is it time to take it to a professional? I'm not a mechanic, but I think part of making these old trucks make sense to own is to keep costs down by doing your own work.

 

There were some tiny cracks around the end of the MAP hose by the manifold, but didn't seem like it was bad enough to leak. Since the MAP values wander a little bit when idling, I decide to replace the MAP sensor and hose. I don't see any change. The sensor wandering is only about +-1kpa, which is only around +-0.15 psi. It does seem like a small boost leak, but I don't know where else to look. I looked around by the exhaust y and up pipes and bellows, but didn't see any soot.

 

I just did another boost leak test by pressurizing the intake, for my own sanity. Still couldn't find any leaks anywhere.

 

I just did another boost leak test by pressurizing the intake, for my own sanity. Still couldn't find any leaks anywhere.

Have you thought about a stuck unison ring? Those get caked or the hole where the actuator goes gets worn out and the ring can't fully return to closed (or open, whichever). If my picture shows up.... This ring isn't terrible, but you can see the "d" starting to form. If these get bad, the ring doesn't move through the full cycle.

 

Pic for reference

 

Hey Jokester, yeah I understand that the VGT solenoid is open loop controlled. It would really be nice if it was closed loop like the EGR valve, so you would at least know if it's not reaching the commanded position. I saw some old thread somewhere with a guy asking if anyone would be interested in a bolt on sensor so you could at least monitor the position yourself and compare it to the commanded position. It sounded like people were interested, but apparently it didn't take off.

I guess a boost leak would make the MAF readings unreliable since it's right at the intake instead of at the manifold, but it still seems to me that the computer should be smart enough to only deliver enough fuel for the air that is actually reaching the intake manifold. It shouldn't just dump more fuel than can be burned just because you step on the gas. There is a lot of data available from all of the sensors and it just doesn't seem like it's being used effectively. Maybe I'm just expecting too much.

I have a turbo o-ring / gasket kit ordered, and will pull the turbo and check out the unison ring when it gets here next week.

 

Well, I think I may be to the bottom of this. I finally got around to pulling the turbo off. It was very dirty, but it was mainly just soot that wiped off easily.

The vanes and unison ring all moved easily. The unison ring looks like it's in good shape:

The smoking gun is the CAC boot connecting to the turbo. I found a pretty good tear under the clamp, and there was also a fairly large crack. I don't know how I missed this when pressure testing:

I also found a couple of potential exhaust leaks. When I took it off, the band clamp holding the two halves of the turbo together was in a position where it was impossible to get a socket onto the nut (I guess without removing the heat shield). I had to use and open end box wrench to get it off. So, I suspect it was not properly torqued. It looks like there is an exhaust leak coming from the center-bottom of the turbo, getting soot on the pedestal (and whatever that is directly behind it):

The band clamp that connects the exhaust to the turbo also has soot in it. I don't know if that's normal or not, but maybe another small exhaust leak:

I don't think this had any affect on my issues, but I also found that the turbo was only bolted on with a single bolt! I'm ordering a new CAC boot, and will update again with final results after I get everything back together. This has at least been a good learning experience. I was pretty intimidated by removing the turbo, but it's really not that bad. Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone!

J

 

Well, I got everything back together and took it out for a spin, but the behavior is exactly the same :-(.

I recorded a few starts showing the PIDs I've been monitoring. These are from a stop in a parking lot, with a decent incline, and ~3k pounds in the bed.

New video by John Schreiner

photos.app.goo.gl

New video by John Schreiner

photos.app.goo.gl

New video by John Schreiner

photos.app.goo.gl

Each of these had a huge amount of black smoke billowing out at the start, which tapered off near the end when the boost gets going. I was pretty much flooring it the entire way. EBP is around 12 before any boost gets going at all. Does that seem right? I didn't really see any smoke on the way over to the parking lot when it was still warming up.

 

Questions:

1. You said it was new to you. Do you know if the turbo that was put on recently is stock of aftermarket?

2. Same question as #1 but for the injectors.

3. When you cleaned your MAP hose/sensor, did you make sure the nipple on the intake manifold was as well? If not, pull that hose and ram some bailing wire down through there to make sure it's not plugged.

-jokester

 

1. I have some of the paperwork from the previous owner. The invoice for the turbo just says "61mm rebuilt turbo cast 11 blade". It was replaced last September.
2. I don't see anything in the paperwork I got about injectors. I have no idea how old they are. I'm not getting any injector codes (or any other codes).
3. I replaced the MAP sensor and hose. When I pulled it off, I ran a wire into the intake manifold, and didn't feel any sort of restriction. I did the same when I pulled the EBP sensor, which also felt clear.

At some point in the past, I think at least two owners ago, it had cracked heads at which time they bullet proofed it: new heads, ARP studs, BP EGR cooler, replaced oil cooler, replaced HPOP. They didn't put either the odometer or date on the invoice for that.

 

A stock 6.0 turbo has either 10 or 13 blade turbine. If this is truly an 11 blade, it's possible that they made a clerical error. It's also possible that this is some aftermarket suped up wildcat turbo (Jerry Clower reference for those who know). 61mm for a compressor (if I remember correctly) is much smaller...

Do you ever smell any exhaust inside the cab while driving or while sitting at a stoplight?

-jokester

 

I just took a look, and the turbo says "Garrett" where the CAC boot connects. I have some pictures of the turbo from when I took it apart, and the exhaust turbine has 13 blades. I didn't get a photo of the intake side.

I don't smell exhaust when driving, but I do sometimes when stopped at a light. I figured it was exhaust from the tail pipe getting blown forward by the wind.

 

Brain fart - I meant to say...the stock turbos have a much smaller compressor (56-59mm or something like that IIRC).

-jokester

 

I couldn't find a serial number, but I found .58A/R. It looks like there is a spot here for a name plate on the compressor housing, by the VGT solenoid, but it's empty. I can't get a good look at the back side of it.

 

I think you've got a hybrid suped up wildcat turbo going there...

Hopefully others with more knowledge can join in and help you sort it out.

-jokester

 

Thanks for all of the thoughts, Jokester.

I'm a total amateur and barely know what I'm doing, but this sounds so much like a boost leak to me that I went back and tested for leaks again. I still couldn't see any with soapy water, feel with my hands, or hear with a couple feet of hose to my ear. I thought being warm might be related, so I warmed it up and then tested for leaks again, but came up empty again. The system seemed to be holding air well. There was air leaking from my shop air hose fitting, and from the CCV, but otherwise I couldn't find anything. I clamped my boost leak tester to my tailpipe, and pressurized the exhaust side. It was leaking a bunch near the muffler, but I couldn't find anything under the hood. I know that's not a very thorough test, but I'm just using what I've got. This doesn't strike me as an exhaust side problem anyway. I also pulled off the EBP sensor and tube again, and double checked that it was all clear.

It just seems so strange to me that I can build 12-15 PSI of exhaust pressure and have maybe one or two PSI of boost. Is it really possible that the turbo is that bad at turning exhaust pressure into charge air pressure? Do I need to just bite the bullet and get a new turbo?

I did notice some "woofing" tonight when letting off of the gas after power braking. My camera is about to die and vibrating, and adding some noise.

New video by John Schreiner

photos.app.goo.gl

 

Put the transmission in 3rd when you do that -- makes it easier to hold the brakes

Really that sounds a lot like my '06 -- do you hear the turbo at the exhaust outlet? -- I had a straight pipe, but added a muffler, so I dont get the jet engine sound now, but I can clearly hear the turbo
That secondary whine sound has bugged me on two trucks -- it is made by the turbo, but not the sound of the turbine wheels, they are much faster and can be heard in the exhaust
if you listen close, should be able to hear the high pitch whine, as a separate sound -- under operating load the turbo is spinning around 100K rpm

To get 30 psi in the intake there will be about 55 psi in the exhaust -- you dont get 1 for 1

 

It's possible that the vgt solenoid is bad, or the harness going to it. I'd double check the plastic charge pipe on the driver's side and the intercooler.
Also, what area do you live in? You might be able to borrow a turbo, from a member, to test.

 

Load up ForScan (PC) and command the VGT to see if it reacts quickly and will build boost