Thats pretty accurate. It takes a full day or a day and a half to replace head gaskets and studs. You have to disassemble a lot of stuff to get to the head gaskets.

 

If the cab is already off there is no reason for that to take 12 hours. If that was total labor that is one thing but that 12 hrs for just the head gaskets seems a bit out of line to me.

 

That seems to make sence.. I bet they just go by book time no matter the condition of the vehicle.. I would guess ford made out good on this repair job.

 

They are going to charge you for atleast 10hrs of labor. Oil cooler and egr cooler is 10hrs of labor so do the math.

 

Those are done with the cab on. If the cab is off it doesn't take 10 hours to replace the oil and egr coolers. Once the cab is off and everything is readily accessible teardown shouldn't take more than 2 hrs. max. It'll take a bit more going back together having to torque stuff and cleaning up the gasket surfaces. When the cab is off if a mechanic that knows what he is doing can't do that in less than 8 hrs. something is wrong.

 

Labor for oil cooler and egr cooler replacement is around 1500 bucks. An average dealer charges you atleast 80 bucks an hour. I use to work at mack haik ford diesel shop. The 12 hr quote is correct. Call a dealer and ask em

 

He already got charged for the time to remove the cab from the frame.

If you're getting charged 12 hours on doing headgaskets and studs then you are getting double charged for removing the cab.

 

I was charged an additional 2hrs labor just for doing ARP's when mine was getting warranty head gaskets

but 12 lol thats painful at $120 or at least thats our rate for Ford in AZ

 

To james.oco200, I will assume that the oil leak repair in question was to replace the bedplate seal, since you mention the cab was lifted and the engine removed for this repair (it is also the only oil leak repair that comes to my mind, requiring disassembly to that extent). For what it's worth, to replace EGR/oil coolers AND head gaskets under WARRANTY time, pays 25 flate rate labour hours. Again, that is WARRANTY time, not retail. Typically, when quoting a RETAIL repair (meaning a the vehicle's warranty has expired), most places will quote labour hours that are between 30 to 40 % more than what the WARRANTY time pays.

Off topic, to replace a bedplate seal requires engine removal, and mounting it on a stand to be turned upside down. This process also involves removing the front and rear covers of the engine, in order to enable removal of the bedplate itself. It DOES NOT require removal of cylinder heads.

Since you REQUESTED the servicing tech to install head studs, this repair now necessitated removal of the cylinder heads (along with the injectors and all associated valvetrain parts), and then the cleaning of gasket surfaces necessary to prepare for re-installation, you've now added to the repair he was doing. 12 hours of labour is about HALF of the 25 labour hours he would've been paid if he were doing just the head gaskets and coolers under the TSB. That's right, HALF of the WARRANTY time, since it was already apart about half way. That said, I think it was pretty fair.

To the guys comments that "any mechanic" should be able to tear it apart in 2 hours and re-assemble for just a little more than that, I can only ask what kind of a "hack" would you rather have wrenching on your ride? Even if it didn't take the actual time charged, this is what flat rate is all about. How long it actually takes is dependent soley on the servicing tech. If a job PAYS 4 hours, but takes actually 1 hour or 7 hours, that is what the tech gets paid (and what the customer is charged) 4 hours. For those who feel it unfair that they paid labour hour charges greater than the actual time the job took, look at it this way. You're not paying for the actual time the job took to carry out. You're paying for the time it took for the tech to acquire the experience/knowledge to be able to carry out the job in less time than the labour time you paid.

 

OK you have already given that the motor is out and the engine is mounted on an engine stand with the front and rear covers off to facilitate the bedplate gasket replacement. Are you going to honestly tell me that you can't roll that engine over and have the heads sitting on a bench in 2 hours from there. Give me a frigggin break. I could do it in an hour with hand tools and no air ratchets. The injectors don't have to come out if you are doing a head gasket job like most dealers do and not sending the heads out to a machine shop to be gone over. Check deck for warping with a straight edge, clean and prep surfaces, lay on head gaskets, heads, and bolt them down. reinstall pushrods and rockers, standpipe and put the valve covers back on. Engine still on the engine stand. If you can't do that in a day (8hrs.) with your lunch and coffee breaks, etc. without it being a hack job you shouldn't be turning wrenches for a living.

25 warranty hrs. is a truck come through the door and needs head gaskets. Ready, set, go. :doh:

 

m-chan68 is dead on accurate. My Oasis report showed 26.0 hours billed under warranty to do head gaskets. My rules of thumb has always been that customer pay is usually 1.5 times what warranty pays. As far as adding head gaskets while your engine was already out, think of how scattered out your engine was. For your sake I hope the tech brought his "A" game the week your truck was there.

 

forget about him, he doesn't get it. i worked in the industry for twenty years before i got out because i didn't want to deal with the bs of customers anymore. why is it when you take a shirt to get dry cleaned they give you a ticket for it and tell you to come back the next day for it, and that's ok, but if we can't fix your car right away you go ape sh*t??

 

forget about him, he doesn't get it. i worked in the industry for twenty years before i got out because i didn't want to deal with the bs of customers anymore. why is it when you take a shirt to get dry cleaned they give you a ticket for it and tell you to come back the next day for it, and that's ok, but if we can't fix your car right away you go ape sh*t??

I absolutely do get it. I am not some wet behind the ears kid and have run my own businesses and worked in the industry too. I have been turning wrenches for over 40 years. I might not be an "expert" but I am far from inexperienced.

 

if you watch the dry cleaner spray some Fa breeze on your shirt and calls it dry cleaned you'd freak also ,,lol

But I think M -Chan explained the hours for this pretty well In my book

 

Well, there is always the option, if you can find someone who would be willing to work this way, of having them do it on a time and materials basis. That is, if you feel lucky that they won't run into any issues with it, and it doesn't need anything out of the ordinary. And it is a person who actually knows what they are doing and not just learning on your truck/engine. It's an option, but not common to find someone good who's willing to work on it that way, as the real good ones usually make their money beating the book rate on almost every repair; why would they want to make less on yours? It's just the way the game is played. I suppose if you don't want to play it, learn how to do the repairs yourself, if you have the time, ability and patience to do so. Most ppl don't, some do, sometimes it works out fine, other times, well, not so much. Welcome to the world of modern vehicles, they certainly aren't anywhere near like working on a 65 Mustang, or an F100 with a 352. You could almost crawl into the engine comparment! Ahh the good 'ol days, eh?

 

i would say 12 hours is fair heck the easy part is pulling the cab getting to the engine. The more time consuming part is doing the studs, ya being a tech the object is to try to make flat rate, and if the person has done 100 head gasket jobs it will only take him 8 hours well thats how he feeds his family.

 

Two points to ponder. If the job pays 2 hours and you are waiting in the customer waiting area, do you want it to take two hours (or more) because of inexperience or do you want the shop foreman to blow through it correctly in 45 min.? AND Can you really penalize a technician for being good, fast, experienced-just which ever term you want to use? I once heard a shop owner say, "you can't blame my man for being fast" as he collected the money. These questions are not aimed at anyone specific, just stirring the pot a bit to make people think.

 

every time someone post that scenario of waiting makes me remember Why I changed my own alternator in the parking lot

 

Look, I don't have anything against guys making an honest living and I don't have a beef with you. In general I don't think you guys get a fair cut of the pie and dealership charges are too high. If the warranty time to repair a job is fair compensation then charging a paying customer 1.5 times that to do the same job is not fair IMHO. If we have to disagree on that I'm ok with it.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]


My dealership tour of duty was very short. I agree that "we" don't get a fair cut of the pie but the dealer has to charge what it does to cover the expense of that big fancy building. It is unfortunate that the customer has to pay for the real estate but that is just how it is. As a general rule you have to be self motivating to beat the warranty time, lazy guys starve, as they should. That is why I rent a "less than modern" building and charge $20.00/hour LESS than the local dealer.

 

Look, I don't have anything against guys making an honest living and I don't have a beef with you. In general I don't think you guys get a fair cut of the pie and dealership charges are too high. If the warranty time to repair a job is fair compensation then charging a paying customer 1.5 times that to do the same job is not fair IMHO. If we have to disagree on that I'm ok with it.[/COLOR]

My dealership tour of duty was very short. I agree that "we" don't get a fair cut of the pie but the dealer has to charge what it does to cover the expense of that big fancy building. It is unfortunate that the customer has to pay for the real estate but that is just how it is. As a general rule you have to be self motivating to beat the warranty time, lazy guys starve, as they should. That is why I rent a "less than modern" building and charge $20.00/hour LESS than the local dealer.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree. You can't be a slouch and work flat rate and survive. Been there, got the mug, the t-shirt, the hat....

the only thing i see wrong with that statement is warranty time a lot of the time isnt really fair compensation, most warranty work you can break even on,some you make time on, but others ford bends you over and runs it home...........dry.....very dry

I also understand that and that is the nature of flat rate and warranty work. BUT in this instance we are speaking of a specific example with the engine out, already partially stripped and mounted on an engine stand. I am citing this specific case and not a general comment on what a head gasket job should charge in general.

And SOMEONE understands:nod:.

For example, Ford has just recently cut cab removal labour time pay on 2008 and newer trucks from 5.9 hours down to 4.3 hours. Anyone of you who are familiar with the 2008 and newer trucks know that the cab bolts do not remove easily. Where most of you out in the real world are getting pay INCREASES, us dealer techs are getting our labour times cut by the big guys in the head offices who are making six digits. And these same guys are the ones who are likely getting pats on their backs for saving money on the backs of us techs.

And people wonder why that are fewer and fewer techs getting into the trade ......

I understand. But again I am speaking of a specific case and not generalizing. The rest of your comment here doesn't pertain to the specific case I was talking about.

 

the local ford quoted me $1700 for hg and studs at $104 an hour. $500 in parts. so that would be 11.5 hours so :dunno:

 

This example is the flip side of the coin we have been discussing. There is no reasonable way to expect a tech to do this job from scratch in the time quoted. I wouldn't do this job for the quoted price.

2003kingranch, expect "unexpected problems" that are going to drive this cost up unless this $1700 is a partial from a quote to do add'l work like egr/oil coolers etc.

 

Exactly I don't see them getting done for $1700.


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I know that if a friend asked me to do the job, it wouldn't get done for that little!!!!! Maybe for family tho! Haha

 

I've never done a bedplate under warranty but I can't imagine it's even close to being worth it.

So the scenario is, the body is off and that's the only overlap. what's it take to remove a cab customer pay? 8 hours? so there's 8 hours that the customer doesn't have to pay for, where's the rest of the 25 hours come from? 12 hours sounds really damn good to me right about now

 

Maybe thats Why the Techs mis diagnosed my Bedplate leak 3 times until warranty was up then they magically found the source and denied any responsibility for missing it so many times

 

Now everybody knows the reason why Ford Powerstroke techs are hard to get, you get a choice on what aspects you want to learn alot of techs dont want to even mess with powerstrokes
A decent amount of big Truck mechanics cant get the job done in the time they want if its warranty on flat rate with tightening labor rates. SO THE MECHANIC WORKS ON YOUR TRUCK FOR FREE till the job is done. No matter how rusted everything is or those rusty bolts decide to snap off when removing.
And if it comes back THEY WORK ON IT FOR FREE AGAIN! So lets say a head gasket leaks, hes gotta do the whole thing over for FREE!.....Then people get mad because its taking too long...Umm IDK id rather make sure everything is good so I get it out the door without a comeback, so I dont gotta spend 12 hours or more doing the job for free if it comes back.

Im sorry your still paying on your truck and it woofed the engine cause of your multiple tuners and not changing oil on it...but dont take it out on me.

I should of went to UTI instead then I could of just went to work at NASCAR lol.

 

Well, I'm new here but not new to wrenching. As I get older I tend to let others do the work. What I see as being very unfair is when a local garage charges $90 an hour and the poor mechanics are making $15 an hour. That just ain't right. Same with any big dealership. Sure they have overhead but to make 5 times an hour what the guy doing the work gets is just unfair. It's not only unfair to the mechanics but unfair to the customers.

There is only 1 guy at my local garage that works on my diesel. He worked at Ford and quit. I know the owner of the garage (he's my friend) I told him if he wanted my work he had to pay the mechanic half of the price per hour he bills me. If not, I would take my truck somewhere else. He got mad and I got even madder. After a few brews he said "Ok, but don't tell anyone" and I told him the only other person who would know was his mechanic. Now I get great service when I take it there and I feel it's a fair deal all around.

 

After 8 years of working on 6.0's the labor rate should be cut in half IMO.

I was quoted a min of 2500 to 5k to replace my STC fitting or whatever it is called. I decided to tackle that repair myself. I have never worked as a paid mechanic i have spent many a hour working on my track equiptment and vehicles. The replacement was not very difficult and did not require more than 8 hours.

 

This is an interesting thread lol.

I worked at Holmes Tuttle FORD as a main line tech for 4 years out of Highschool then Tech School. The big dog Diesel techs, diagnostic tune up techs, and Front End techs were the guys making 15hr when the Dealer charged 50 an hour <91 threw 1995> and now i still talk to some of those guys as they are long time friends and the dealer is getting 90+ an hour and they got 3 dollars an hour more 18 total.

Ive never liked the labor rates of shops, and i have always felt the tech was short handed in the rates.

Now a days at least in Oregon most of the dealers have gone to Techs paid hourly not Flat rate. Not sure if this makes it better or worse for them but i know the dealer is still making a ton.

 

I'm no master Ford mechanic ,but can spin a wrench , to do my EGR Delete, OilCooler, & Turbo Swap with cab on was close to 10-12hrs
If the job is done correctly ..Pull off heads & check surfaces , pull Injectors & related items and install all new seals etc.. and re assemble I could see that many hours ..if the did not tear into heads and only lifted them off and dropped in new gaskets ?? then it would seem quite much

 

If the job is done correctly ..Pull off heads & check surfaces , pull Injectors & related items and install all new seals etc.. and re assemble I could see that many hours ..if the did not tear into heads and only lifted them off and dropped in new gaskets ?? then it would seem quite much

I agree with everything stated in the above quote except the portion highlighted in bold red. That to me, is NOT a shortcut I would ever be willing to take on any engine. And anyone who would, and charge the full pop for the labour to do it right, is what gives all of us who DO care about the quality of our work, a really bad name.

 

Not trying to give any mechanics a bad rep !
original poster did not clarify ..How Much work had been done in detailed information...some shops around here will do the gaskets as long as they can drop the heads right back on without tearing them down ... crapy way to go about it , but they will do it