Injector driver relay clicking - engine dies.... - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 08-06-2009, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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Injector driver relay clicking - engine dies....

'02 F350 4X4 Auto 7.3 18Kmi

Went to start the truck this morning, started fine then shut off.

Restarted - the red "BATT" idiot light flashes along with relay #303 labeled "Injector driver module relay" and died again

Cranks now, along with the light & clicking relay, but no start (I didn't crank it for that long though, maybe 10secs.)

Anybody got a clue as to where I should start to look?

Could low/bad batteries alone do this (it's on charge now) I don't drive it every day, but ran & started just fine a week ago.....

After a few mins on the big charger the amps went down from 25A to 20A so doesn't seem like they were too low.

When I roll the key on the clicking & Batt light come on even with the charger On and the amps don't go up on the charger much (even with the GlowPlug light illuminated.... shouldn't That add to the load a enough to knock the chargers output up a bunch???)

Another 10mins, chargers down to 10A (the batteries are in parallel - right? I only need to hook-up to one of them) So, they didn't need any juice...

Last week, I ordered an AE scanner, maybe it will come today!!!

Last edited by NoRalPh; 08-06-2009 at 10:47 AM. Reason: Even more Info....
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post #2 of 12 Old 08-06-2009, 02:42 PM
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Could be an internal short in the IDM.
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post #3 of 12 Old 08-06-2009, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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Well what ever it is, now it's intermittent If I let it click for awhile (the UPS man brought me my AE scanner) as I'm trying to get the scanner to communicate, the clicking stops after a min or so. Then, the truck starts and dies again when the relay and idiot light click again.

Then the next time I try it it starts and idols for 5 mins just fine, I know I'm going to get stranded by this

The CEL light is Not on when it starts so I'm not sure what the scanners going to tell me.
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post #4 of 12 Old 08-06-2009, 04:55 PM
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On your AE software, click on vehicle in the upper left corner, when dialog box opens, go to the vehicle interface section (lower) two drop down menu's interface type= auto detect,initialization type: non OBD2 only, then click Ok. sounds like an issue with the idm relay but run self test, injector buzz, and see if any IDM codes show up. if any injector circuit codes show, check wire harness from IDM to injector, should be no more that .5 to .7 ohms from end to end. check relay connections by wiggling relay while truck is running, terminals can become loose and cause connection intermit. look in owners manual for location of fuses/relays

Have fun with the AE software, it's a great tool and a great value

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post #5 of 12 Old 08-07-2009, 06:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robsr View Post
On your AE software, click on vehicle in the upper left corner, when dialog box opens, go to the vehicle interface section (lower) two drop down menu's interface type= auto detect,initialization type: non OBD2 only, then click Ok. sounds like an issue with the idm relay but run self test, injector buzz, and see if any IDM codes show up. if any injector circuit codes show, check wire harness from IDM to injector, should be no more that .5 to .7 ohms from end to end. check relay connections by wiggling relay while truck is running, terminals can become loose and cause connection intermit. look in owners manual for location of fuses/relays

Have fun with the AE software, it's a great tool and a great value
Wow that's some great info! - Thx

Problem is.... Things just went from Bad to Worse

Couldn't get the AE to connect with the truck (tried on my other cars and it connected fine) it got part way there, open the box to create a new "File" I selected FORD _ 2002_ 7.3 then,,, it hangs and says something like "can't create, shut-down and restart" I tried it several times...


So, I'm thinking "Intermittent, weird electrical problems, can't communicate with the computer, maybe water or crud is in the computer connector itself" and I pulled it.

Looks clean, plug it back in, trucks DEAD, no lights w/key, just dead.

I pull the connector (wondering if I'll see mashed pins or something ) looks good, I put it back on, maybe not as tight as the last time, and we're back to clicking & flashing like it was.

I think "maybe it IS a connection problem here" and tighten the connector bolt back down and try it again. DEAD again but now, it STAYS DEAD!

Did I just blow the computer somehow?

****!
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post #6 of 12 Old 08-07-2009, 07:04 AM
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I would do a voltage drop test on all the battery positive connections first, then check all grounds using the ohm meter, be sure to wiggle em' during testing. Key on, wiggle the PCM power relay, see if stuff lights up. Be sure to check the PCM ground ,center left fire wall and engine to body ground, left side cylinder head rear. PCM is fuse protected, doubt you caused any problem. Also need to check cigar lighter fuse, this provides power to sixteen pin DLC connector, no power? no communication with scan tool.

Call or email Bill at AE, He'll walk you through your communication issue.

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post #7 of 12 Old 08-07-2009, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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Oh, this frackin thing is possessed

OK, got off a little early to work on the truck today....

I have Cleaned - Scraped - Tightened - Greased

All 4 battery terminals and ends

Both (-) cables where they attach to the block

Ground on the firewall, below the windshield, above the booster (PCM I hope?)

Ground on firewall, below the windshield, on passenger side

Other end on that at rear of right head

Below that at bottom of engine on bellhousing bolt

Other end of that on frame & body under passenger rocker

Two more, in cab, to the right of the steering column

Did I miss anything important?

NONE of these looked bad, no green, rust, or white powder. I understand these trucks have bad-ground issues so I'm glad to have done it for the future

Less that 1/2 Ohm resistance from either Negative terminal to anywhere on the block or body. No voltage drop on the (+) side.

I also put my jumper cables on both the body & engine to the (-) terminal for a solid ground.

Only "green" I've found is on the ODBII connector itself (couple of pins) and probably why the AE wouldn't communicate.

NOW here's what the stupid thing is doing ....

Roll the key on, Nothing, well almost nothing. There's a quite clacking, buzzing from behind the gauges. And sometimes the key buzzer tries to buzz. If I wait a bit, the needles go up on the Tach & speedo. The "Check Gauges" flickers some The ABS light might flicker...

More buzzing and clicking from other places (I pull ALL relays and none of them are the clicking) Other lights come & go on the dash (GP - Water - Batt - seatbelt) BUT

I can stop all of it by applying a real load like turning on the headlights (they don't work, nothing works, no radio, interior lights, nothing) but it keeps trying to get going with all these noises under the dash I think...

If I put the charger (50A) on the batteries it doesn't change anything and both batteries only draw less that 10A from the charger.

Even then I can't turn-on the headlights. I really don't think I have a battery problem though. When it did crank, it cranked hard & long without slowing down at all and they both, individually, read 12.8V ea.

What disturbs me is.... None of this drastic stuff started until unplugged the computer and then, went away (temporarily) when I loosened the connector bolt. Once retightened, it came back and Stayed Back.

Would a computer issue keep me from turning-on the headlights? (I can see the interior lights because of the timer, but No horn & headlights??)

I'm really baffled, and would appreciate some opinions.....

TIA

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

update - I now find all this "clacking/buzzing" goes on with the key on the seat and the doors closed for over 5mins (I left the window open). I just Have to disconnect the batteries.... just couldn't think of it doing this all night

Last edited by NoRalPh; 08-07-2009 at 02:52 PM. Reason: New info
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post #8 of 12 Old 08-08-2009, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
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Oh, THIS can't be Right!

I keep thinking that there's something going on with the computer connection because it's that only thing I messed with that caused a change...

So, I take out the PCM and open it, look carefully at the edge connector, don't see anything out of place. Next I really examine the plug looking for cracks or corrosion - nothing there either

Then I realize that in the act of plugging & un-plugging the computer connector I kind of jostle alot of things around there so I open ALL the connectors there, open the relay block and pull those but everything looks clean everywhere I look.

THIS is underneath to all those wires/connectors where the computer plug comes through the firewall. It comes from a box on top of the wheel well, close to the air box and is labeled "CAUTION HIGH CURRENT" (there used to be a ring at the end of this wire, now it's just green fuzz)

What is this for?
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Last edited by NoRalPh; 08-08-2009 at 07:21 AM. Reason: found the connection point
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post #9 of 12 Old 08-10-2009, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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Smile The end of this story.....

Fixed it - all's good now

POTENTIAL ELECTRICAL CORROSION if your truck is like mine......
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post #10 of 12 Old 08-13-2009, 04:50 PM
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Weird man, my buddy was over on Saturday with his '02, with similar symptoms. Found the same thing you did.

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