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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When I bought my 06 f250 it had a bunch of work done to it from the dealer. They changed the HPOP, oil cooler. They also added motorcraft VC3B coolant - which is motorcraft orange, supposed to be for the 6.7L trucks.

I know the owners manual calls for motorcraft gold VC7B. I don't have an EGR anymore so coolant won't see those exhaust temps.

Has anyone used the VC3b coolant in the 6.0 powerstroke? I can't find anything online to say if it is compatible to the motorcraft gold VC7b. I don't want to flush it unless i have to
 

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EGR temps are only one thing to cause issues w/ the Ford Gold. Additive depletion and exposure to even small amounts of combustion gas can cause issues.

I wouldn't run it. No reason to.
 

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I have the MC orange in the garage and it specifically says not to use with the other MC coolants.

If they flushed and it's all orange, you will be fine. If it was topped off, they need to flush it.
 

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I recommend avoiding the "Gold" at all costs. If you got the orange, be sure you follow their recommendations for changing it.

k
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
they flushed it with all orange, i think, because they charged for 3 gallons of concentrate. I think I will just keep the orange.
 

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Personally, I'd flush it. How much will it cost you to flush it out, $100?
3 gallons of ELC and a whole bunch of distilled water.....totally worth peace of mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I've been searching for a reference but I think ford vc3b (orange) is an OAT coolant - which would be the same as an ELC, so I'm not sure what I would gain? Still reading up on the subject but it's so convoluted
 

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The orange coolant formulation is close to a Dexcool. IMI it is not the correct antifreeze (Ford went to it for the 6.7L), but maybe it will work.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3526230/Is_Motorcraft_orange_coolant_r

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrica...lant&category=A/C and Engine Cooling Products

In the link below, Ford does not list it for the 6.0L, but again - maybe it will work fine.

IIRC Ford still recommends it to be changed every 45k miles.
https://www.xtremediesel.com/motorc...MI5taQj6il4AIVgiNpCh0R6AJREAAYASAAEgLfwfD_BwE

Also remember, not all ELC coolants are the same.
 

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Iirc, @SparkyF250, has a chart that cover all this.
 

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Does the 6.7 have aluminum heads? I was under the impression Dex-Cool was specific to Chevy using aluminum heads/intakes on gassers? Not sure which is why I ask




The orange coolant formulation is close to a Dexcool. IMI it is not the correct antifreeze (Ford went to it for the 6.7L), but maybe it will work.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3526230/Is_Motorcraft_orange_coolant_r

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrica...lant&category=A/C and Engine Cooling Products

In the link below, Ford does not list it for the 6.0L, but again - maybe it will work fine.

IIRC Ford still recommends it to be changed every 45k miles.
https://www.xtremediesel.com/motorc...MI5taQj6il4AIVgiNpCh0R6AJREAAYASAAEgLfwfD_BwE

Also remember, not all ELC coolants are the same.
 

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"The 6.7 engine itself features a compacted graphite iron block and aluminum heads".
 

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Iirc, @SparkyF250, has a chart that cover all this.
It's an old chart that prolly doesn't show Ford orange. FWIW the engine builder's of the 6.0 (Navistar) factory filled with Cat EC-1 spec ELC. Dealers have been putting the wrong coolant in the 6.0 since 2003 Ford chose Gold/G-05, and most believe that was one of the primary reasons for cascading failures of oil cooler, EGR coolers and head gaskets. The silicates in the G-05 drop out of suspension presumably from the heat of the EGR, the oil cooler clogs without warning (unless the owner installed an aftermarket monitor to watch oil temps). In the 6.0 a clogged oil cooler can lead to a ruined EGR cooler, and if it ruptures it lets coolant into the intake with disastrous results for the head gaskets. Another problem is mixing different coolants that cause sludge to clog the oil cooler too. Green, gold, red, & orange coolants don't play well together, they don't make a rainbow. They make slime.

The OP is EGR deleted but if the new Orange has silicates in it (I don't know if it does) it can still ruin the OEM oil cooler. A clean, well maintained cooling system with the correct coolant, is cheaper than a BPD air/oil cooler system that to many is the ultimate fix.

For those in the choir, forgive the preaching. But it maybe good info for guys who have neglected their cooling system or bought a truck with unknown maintenance records :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks, the links above give you the "what" but not the "why" - I appreciate the discussion. I dont have anything for or against cat elc or ford orange, just trying to understand.

As far as I can tell, ford orange is very similar to dex cool. According to this: https://www.altorfer.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Dex-Cool.pdf

It is 2eha based (just like cat elc1) and doesnt have silicates, nitrates, borates (just like cat elc1)

Actually, according to this: https://www.petersoncat.com/sites/cat/files/downloads/Cat Extended Life.pdf

Cat elc one does have some nitrites in it, albeit a very small amount.

Given that the base composition is the same, i'm not sure what I would be 1. Gaining or 2. Risking by keeping what's already in the truck (ford orange)

I would love to hear why I am wrong though, and am more than happy to flush it out if needed.
 

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There is more to coolants than just the "major" organic acid. There is also the question of seal and gasket compatibility. In addition, the Dex-Cool variety of coolants have a reputation for not protecting cast iron if the level gets low and air gets in the system. I have no experience with this, so that is just "internet regurgitation". There is definitely more cast iron in the 6.0L than the 6.7L.

I do know that nitrites (not nitrates as sometimes you will find posted) can help protect exposed surfaces by a protective barrier. IMO that is a good thing in our engines. The silicates act that way as well, but as we know silicates can become a problem if exposed to excessive heat.

From Ford (regarding their Orange coolant):

Use only when specified. Do not use this product in systems originally equipped with any green-colored, conventional engine coolant such as Motorcraft® Premium Engine Coolant, meeting Ford Specification ESE-M97B44-A, or with the yellow-colored, longer-life Motorcraft® Premium Gold Engine Coolant, meeting Ford Specification WSS-M97B51-A1, or with the dark green-colored Motorcraft® Specialty Green Engine Coolant, meeting Ford Specification WSS-M97B55-A

These companies keep the information close to their chest. I doubt that you will find much that tells you specifically why not to use the Orange coolant in the 6.0L.

What I do know is that the EC-1 rated ELC coolants have performed well over many years in MANY, MANY engines. Lots of data on it doing well. The International versions of the 6.0L (MaxxForce/VT365) came with the EC-1 rated ELC coolants, so it isn't like we even really experimented, lol.

Just a couple of elements to the EC-1 rating unrelated to the main organic acid(s):
Minimum levels of tolytriazole of 900 ppm for new coolant (yellow-metal corrosion inhibitor)
Minimum levels of nitrite of 500 ppm for new coolant (cavitation protection)

The Orange, well not so much data in the 6.0L. Try it and keep us informed when the water pump is removed next or cooling system components are inspected internally (but 1-2 years isn't really a true test of it). I don't see that we need to convince you of anything ..... just don't believe for a second that a quick internet search on the major components (like what are listed in an SDS) will give you enough information for a technically based decision. Its not like many of us expect to get more than 10 more years out of these 6.0's anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks, I have kept reading and wanted to share some of the things I have found- may add some value to anyone reading this in the future. Lots of this bismic has already stated.

Inhibitors in coolant:
Nitrite - lines metal and prevents corrosion, depletes as it coats the metal, but coats quickly
Silicates - bind metal parts such as aluminum also, quickly. However can drop of out solution and form deposits.
Nitrates - protects iron and steel
Tolyltriazole - protects copper/brass
Phosphate - inhibitor - buffers acid. But in hard water, calcium will bind and inactivate it.
Organic acids - not depleted like inorganic inhibitors, however takes a long time to form the protection on metals LINK

Ford Gold: HOAT type coolant - low silicate, low nitrite, no phosphate. I can't quite tell what the "organic acid" portion is exactly. On the bottle, there is: Sodium benzoate, boron sodium oxide pentahydrate, sodium nitrate. I think the sodium benzoate is an inorganic inhibitor, not sure about the other. Like everyone here is saying it is the silicate that is the worry of dropping out of solution.


Cat ELC (and probably other EC-1 rated coolant) is classified as a "NOAT" - meaning some nitrite added to the OAT chemistry. Like bismic says I think it is for cavitation protection. Nitrite is supposed to be hard on aluminum if it hasn't been prepped correctly and I read an article recently about the industry's movement away from nitrites. LINK. I don't think that is an issue for our engines.

There is no silicates, phosphate, nitrates.

According to this, the organic acid is potassium 2-ethylhexanoate, same as 2-EHA used in ford orange and dexcool, but with potassium instead of sodium bound providing the neutralizing positive charge. I'm not sure if the sodium or potassium is of any significance.


Full OATs, such as ford orange: No nitrite, no silicate, no nitrates, no phosphate. Similarly, the acid used is the same 2EHA but with sodium bound instead of potassium as above.

There are some other molecules listed but I haven't seen them anywhere else so I'm not sure what they do.

As far as I can tell, Ford orange uses the same organic acid as Cat ELC but sodium instead of potassium is used to balance the charge. I think what you lose with the ford orange is nitrite which would give you more cavitation protection because it binds faster than organic acids.

The 2EHA being a "plasticizer" is what I have been reading is the cause of gasket issues especially when 2EHA is exposed to air. I don't think that is an issue for the 6.0 especially if the navistar oem coolant (EC-1 rated) uses 2EHA itself.
 

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Not sure if this thread is still active, but I have been using Ford orange for over 5 years on my 6.0 and no issues whatsoever. Lots of road trips and some trailer hauling. Deltas are within specs, nothing close to a clogged cooler issue. My mechanic, a powerstroke specialist used it after bullet proofing my truck. All he works on is powerstroke engines. He is constantly fixing other "supposedly" powerstroke specialist jobs. He never steers anyone wrong in order to make a buck. If you need any specific work done on the truck, he will tell you. I also have the coolant filter, which after changing it the first time found very miniscule amount of cast in the bottom. Could have come from the new oil cooler, who knows, however every filter change afterwards has been squeeky clean. Just my 2 cents for those worried about the orange coolant.
 

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A lot of coolants do well under "normal" conditions. Even Ford Gold will do well at 45k change intervals and no "excursions" into excessive temperatures. When the Ford Gold gets hot (which can happen unexpectedly with a leak or a thermostat issue, etc), it starts the process of depositing solids. The EC-1 rated ELC soolants have proven to be EXTREMELY robust - even when something "extreme" happens.

I see you are "bulletproofed", so no EGR system ...........................

Proper coolant selection involves good performance under extreme conditions. The "Orange" coolant may or may not be good with an EGR system and/or extreme conditions. All about the details. IMO, it is not worth trying since so many good/available choices have been proven.
 

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Not sure if this thread is still active, but I have been using Ford orange for over 5 years on my 6.0 and no issues whatsoever. Lots of road trips and some trailer hauling. Deltas are within specs, nothing close to a clogged cooler issue. My mechanic, a powerstroke specialist used it after bullet proofing my truck. All he works on is powerstroke engines. He is constantly fixing other "supposedly" powerstroke specialist jobs. He never steers anyone wrong in order to make a buck. If you need any specific work done on the truck, he will tell you. I also have the coolant filter, which after changing it the first time found very miniscule amount of cast in the bottom. Could have come from the new oil cooler, who knows, however every filter change afterwards has been squeeky clean. Just my 2 cents for those worried about the orange coolant.
SOP after an egr delete is to use the normal "green" coolant. the additives and extras in the ford orange are no longer needed. and the green is cheaper which is a plus for flushes.
if orange works for you, (y)
 

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SOP after an egr delete is to use the normal "green" coolant. the additives and extras in the ford orange are no longer needed. and the green is cheaper which is a plus for flushes.
if orange works for you, (y)
Could you post this SOP?

The green is cheaper, but you are supposed to check the additives periodically with the green ... AND add the SCA's periodically.
 
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