Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum banner

1 - 20 of 223 Posts

·
The Silent Service
Joined
·
5,390 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This topic has been requested a few times here on the ORG, but never a complete listing. This thread will be organized as its found on the Edge Insight CS or CTS units, but the variables apply regardless of the monitoring package used.

ScangaugeII Users: You'll find a list of usefull information for PIDs on post #51.

Dashboss Users: Here's a couple of threads for those looking to untilize this option:
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/general-6-0l-discussion/239295-dashboss-monitoring-review.html
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/general-6-0l-discussion/243507-dashboss-iphone-external-port-how.html

Autoenginuity Users: Which is the most intrusive monitoring package out there.
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/diesel-diagnostics/162012-autoenginuity-tips-tricks.html

Edge Insight CS - Part #83730 - 2.4" Color Screen - does not support the Edge back-up camera. (2 analog gauge with a bar graph main display - with a max of 8 PIDs display)

Edge Insight CTS - Part #83830 - 4.3" Color Touch Screen - supports the Edge back-up camera. (3 analog gauge with 2 PID main display - with a max of 8 PIDs display)

Don't forget the isolation hose to get the sender attached to the fuel bowl test port: 6.0L Fuel Pressure Adapter
Your other option is to run a billet cap, and a set of hose off a 90* elbow.

Now the various PIDs to be watched:
Battery Voltage: Should read above 12.1v prior to the glow plugs shutting off and the alternator engaging. After that it will normally read between 13.0-14.3v, monitored for the health of the batteries and alternator.
*Engine Coolant Temp: Coolant temp. Normal 190-200*, Heavy Service 200-215*, Alarm Set 230*. If you are seeing temps under 185*, you may be seeing a thermostat that has failed open. While not a condition that will damage the motor, these trucks operate more efficiently at the 190-200* range.
Engine Load: This is the load on the motor itself, as seen by the PCM.
*Engine Oil Temp: Oil temp. Normal 5-15* above ECT when at operating temperature. Engine will defuel at 254* and go into limp mode. This is the critical value to watch, as it relays the health of your oil cooler. A spread of 15* or more between the ECT and EOT is the threshold for an oil cooler replacement/rebuild.
*FICM Voltage: Critical for the prevention of injector failure, and troubleshooting hard start/no start conditions. Normal 47.5-48.5v (Those running high voltage FICMs will only see 50.0v displayed as that is all the PCM recognizes) At no time when operating or during cranking should this valve drop below 45v, that's the threshold for a rebuild or upgrade to the FICM.
Gear with TCL: Here's the key thing, the Insight only counts the shifts. So it will show 1-5th gear and weather the TC is locked, it does not tell you which 4th gear the truck shifts to.
ICP Pressure (read as voltage on '03-'04MY trucks): This is effectively your HPO value. Truck will not start without 500psi, normally idles around 650psi, and at WOT with a full load it peaks at 4050psi.
Injector Pulse Width: This is the time of which your injectors are actually open. This value will vary quite a bit depending on throttle position, tuning, and will read 0 when descending grades when the motor has shifted to engine braking via the turbo.
Transmission Temp: Good to keep an eye on, as the stock gauge in the dash is an idiot light at best. Normal 150-190*, Towing 195-210*, Alarm 220*.
Turbo Boost: Normal 0-26psi under stock programing with peaks around 28-30psi.

Note:Here's the conversions for ICP Pressure reading voltage on the early trucks:
To start, volts need to be .82 (500.0 psi)
Operating values:
KOEO=0.2 (0.0 psi)
Below values are with engine at operating temp.
LOW IDLE=1.0 (625.5 psi)
HIGH IDLE=1.8 (high idle is 2500 rpms for this) (1400.0-1500.0psi)
OPERATING RANGE=.15 - 4.7 Volts (0.0 - 4050.0 psi)


Extra PIDs available:
Accel Pedal Position:
Barometric Pressure:
Corrected Speed ('03-'04 MY): Corrected speed for oversized tires.
Engine RPM:
Engine Run Time:
Injector Pulse Width: The time your injectors are open during the cycle. Valves are subject to change based on tuning and driving conditions.
Intake Air Temp: This is the temp at the IA1 sensor, so it will be close to the air temps under the hood.
Mass Air Flow: Value of the amount of air moving, will vary depending on tune and boost levels.
Mileage Coach:
MPG Instant: Real Time indication of computed fuel mileage.
MPG Average: Average indication of computed fuel mileage.
TCC Duty Cycle: Torque Convertor Duty Cycle
Turbo Boost: Normal 0-26psi under stock programing with peaks around 28-30psi.
Vehicle Speed ('03-'04 MY):
VGT Duty Cycle: The duty cycle of the turbo vanes themselves. Normal range 15-85%, Driving 40-60%, Idling will be higher, and WOT will appear lower.
Time 0-60mph: In performance monitoring
Time 1/4 Mile: In performance monitoring

Expandable System Parameters:
*Exhaust Gas Temp Probe: (Edge Part #98603 /w EAS starter, #98611 w/o) Very important if you tow heavy or run aftermarket tuning. Normal 650-850*, Heavy Service 800-1050*, Alarm Set 1250*. Now There are folks that have pushed this number to 1800* for short time periods (drag strip, show, or truck pulls), but for prolonged periods 1250* is the understood limit. For turbo longevity, during shut down wait for this figure to cool to 400* or less, to prevent oil from baking in the turbo itself.
*Fuel Pressure via 0-100psi Pressure Sender: (Edge Part #98607 requires the EAS kit) Important to prevent Fuel Injector Failure. Normal 50-65psi, Max 75psi - O-Ring starts leaking, Min 45psi - Injectors aren't being properly lubricated.
Oil Pressure via 0-100psi Pressure Sender: (Edge Part #98607 requires the EAS kit) Normal 12psi @ 700rpm, 24psi @ 1200rpm, 45psi @ 1800
Optional Temperatures (-40 to 300*F): (Edge Part 98608) For those who want independent senders for fluid temps.

Shortfalls: As I find issues I'll post them here.
-Boost levels with aftermarket turbos: The factory sender is a 2 bar (29.4psi) unit, and the factory programming defuels on overboost conditions. If you swap out turbos/injectors, it may benefit you to add a mechanical boost gauge.
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0l-performance-parts-discussion/192210-attention-edge-insight-users.html

*Denotes a Vital Parameter you should be watching.

Note: This is still a work in progress, and as always I'm looking for information to complete this listing.

In the long-term it is my goal to have this thread include a sort of indication observed, root causes, and then solutions. I've started with the indications themselves for the moment until I can get more information organized and prepared.

Conditions to watch for, and corrective measures:
Note: I will be referencing the following thread throughout this post: http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/general-6-0l-discussion/204386-write-up-bullet-proofing-6-0l-psd.html

The dreaded Oil Cooler clogging:
This is a result of the coolant run by Ford, and the oil cooler's design. This is also the reason so many folks have discredited the 6.0L as a junk motor, and Ford has updated its strategy to throw a CEL for the deltas (latest flash only). What you are looking for on this condition is a 15* delta between the ECT and EOT while at operating temp while running around 65mph on a level grade (gives a solid baseline for your numbers). What to do about it, when your cooler gets to this point you have to make a few decisions: 1) Are you going to continue running Ford Gold? 2) How am I going to solve the EGR cooler? (delete, block, or upgrade) 3) How am I going to handle the oil cooler? (rebuild, replace, or upgrade to an external). I've covered most of the pros and cons of these in the bullet-proofing thread.

Fuel Pressure:
Running fuel pressure lower that 45psi will lead to injector failure from a lack of lubrication during the injection cycle. However, running pressure about 75psi, will result in fuel seeping by the o-rings and into your oil. This is the one attribute that doesn't get the attention from most of the aftermarket monitors, due to there is no factory sensor for it. Solving a low pressure condition: 1) the Blue Spring update from Ford. 2) Verification of the filters. 3) Upgrading to a Regulated Return setup, or aftermarket fuel system, depending on your injectors and tuning demands on the stock system.

FICM Voltage:
Another neglected aspect of the 6.0L that will lead to hard/no-start conditions and injector failure. Voltage on your FICM shouldn't ever be below 45v during start up of the truck, and should rest between 47.5-48.5v while at idle or driving. Those members with units with a 53v or 58v powerboard, be advised that only 50v will be noticed by the PCM, and relayed to your Monitor. For those who have low voltage: 1) Check the batteries, ensure you are seeing proper voltage and good cranking amps. Once you verify the batteries, you have a few options to solve the problem: 1) Get the kit to rebuild the FICM from Bullet Proof Diesel, maintaining your logic board, and current FICM tuning. 2) Send your FICM to a repair location (FICMrepair.com has some good reviews) 3) Get a new updated/upgraded unit from IDP or Swamps. 4)Get a new FICM from Ford (not the best answer out there).

Batteries and the Alternator:
Bad alternator is a pretty easy one to notice with an Insight, you will also have the battery light on the dash come on when the alternator isn't charging properly. As for batteries, I do suggest watching battery voltage at start up. This will allow you to see the drain on the cranking amps here. I can also tell you that if during cranking your battery voltage drops below 8v, your insight will shut off (wasn't intentional, but I was T/S a hard start condition, and watching voltage and it happened to me). For the FICM's powerboard health, you will want to ensure your float voltage (EOKO) is greater than 12.1v before starting the truck. If the batteries don't have enough power the FICM can't maintain it's 48v.

Engine Load, and Sticking Brakes:
When you start noticing more throttle being required to get the truck moving, or your MPGs suddenly dropping off, it may be time to take a look at Engine Load. This requires that you know what your normal percentage is running, be that 65mph on level grade like your ECT/EOT delta observation, or under normal driving conditions that you see. When you notice the Engine Load higher than normal, you can pump the brakes (seeing if its brakes sticking/dragging). You can back these observations up with Accel Postition. Mind you the absolute valves for this will be truck specific (Truck Weight, Gearing, Tires, Tune, etc.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,914 Posts
For the 03-04 year models the icp voltage is shown, not pressure. And I'm not even sure how the voltage reading correlates to pressure. Thanks for all the info.

Sent from my SCH-I500
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
370 Posts
Good info, and a great start. I have my CTS sitting at home, with the EGT temp probe in the mail.

Can't wait to get it going and play around with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Thanks again CD, this is a great start
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
It would be awesome if someone knows the voltage to pressure change
 

·
The Silent Service
Joined
·
5,390 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
For the 03-04 year models the icp voltage is shown, not pressure. And I'm not even sure how the voltage reading correlates to pressure. Thanks for all the info.

Sent from my SCH-I500
Thanks for the heads up, I thought had come across that before. The post had been updated.

I'll see if I can dig something up on the matter of converting it.

long read but well worth it. going to be a sticky?

bailey
I intend for it to be a sticky the same way as the bullet-proofing thread. Kept here in the 6.0L General Section where we can continue to update and improve it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
Very informative! Thanx colo!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AutoGuide.Com Free App
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
:thumb::thumb:
 

·
The Silent Service
Joined
·
5,390 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Glad this one is getting watched, I've just added some more information to the original post:


Conditions to watch for, and corrective measures:
Note: I will be referencing the following thread throughout this post: http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/general-6-0l-discussion/204386-write-up-bullet-proofing-6-0l-psd.html

The dreaded Oil Cooler clogging:
This is a result of the coolant run by Ford, and the oil cooler's design. This is also the reason so many folks have discredited the 6.0L as a junk motor, and Ford has updated its strategy to throw a CEL for the deltas (latest flash only). What you are looking for on this condition is a 15* delta between the ECT and EOT while at operating temp while running around 65mph on a level grade (gives a solid baseline for your numbers). What to do about it, when your cooler gets to this point you have to make a few decisions: 1) Are you going to continue running Ford Gold? 2) How am I going to solve the EGR cooler? (delete, block, or upgrade) 3) How am I going to handle the oil cooler? (rebuild, replace, or upgrade to an external). I've covered most of the pros and cons of these in the bullet-proofing thread.

Fuel Pressure:
Running fuel pressure lower that 45psi will lead to injector failure from a lack of lubrication during the injection cycle. However, running pressure about 75psi, will result in fuel seeping by the o-rings and into your oil. This is the one attribute that doesn't get the attention from most of the aftermarket monitors, due to there is no factory sensor for it. Solving a low pressure condition: 1) the Blue Spring update from Ford. 2) Verification of the filters. 3) Upgrading to a Regulated Return setup, or aftermarket fuel system, depending on your injectors and tuning demands on the stock system.

FICM Voltage:
Another neglected aspect of the 6.0L that will lead to hard/no-start conditions and injector failure. Voltage on your FICM shouldn't ever be below 45v during start up of the truck, and should rest between 47.5-48.5v while at idle or driving. Those members with units with a 53v or 58v powerboard, be advised that only 50v will be noticed by the PCM, and relayed to your Monitor. For those who have low voltage: 1) Check the batteries, ensure you are seeing proper voltage and good cranking amps. Once you verify the batteries, you have a few options to solve the problem: 1) Get the kit to rebuild the FICM from Bullet Proof Diesel, maintaining your logic board, and current FICM tuning. 2) Send your FICM to a repair location (FICMrepair.com has some good reviews) 3) Get a new updated/upgraded unit from IDP or Swamps. 4)Get a new FICM from Ford (not the best answer out there).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,254 Posts
ICP volts:

To start, volts need to be .82

Operating values:

KOEO=0.2
Below values are with engine at operating temp.
LOW IDLE=1.0
HIGH IDLE=1.8 (high idle is 2500 rpms for this)
OPERATING RANGE=.15 - 4.7 Volts

Comparison to PSI:

KOEO=0
LOW IDLE=625.5
HIGH IDLE=1400-1450
OPERATING RANGE=0-4045

These are Ford values.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,914 Posts
Thanks amd, awesome.

Sent from my SCH-I500
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,028 Posts
Great Thread:woot:

Here's another vote for this to be made a Sticky
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Great write up. My CTS is supposed to be here tomorrow so this was perfect timing. Thanks.
 

·
The Silent Service
Joined
·
5,390 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
ICP volts:

To start, volts need to be .82

Operating values:

KOEO=0.2
Below values are with engine at operating temp.
LOW IDLE=1.0
HIGH IDLE=1.8 (high idle is 2500 rpms for this)
OPERATING RANGE=.15 - 4.7 Volts

Comparison to PSI:

KOEO=0
LOW IDLE=625.5
HIGH IDLE=1400-1450
OPERATING RANGE=0-4045

These are Ford values.
Thank you for this information, I'll get it worked into the body of the main thread shortly.

Great Thread:woot:

Here's another vote for this to be made a Sticky
Great write up. My CTS is supposed to be here tomorrow so this was perfect timing. Thanks.
Glad its proving useful, y'all.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
179 Posts
Great info thanks

Sent from my DROID Pro using AutoGuide.Com Free App
 

·
The Silent Service
Joined
·
5,390 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Just added the following, and filled in a couple of more holes:

"Batteries and the Alternator:
Bad alternator is a pretty easy one to notice with an Insight, you will also have the battery light on the dash come on when the alternator isn't charging properly. As for batteries, I do suggest watching battery voltage at start up. This will allow you to see the drain on the cranking amps here. I can also tell you that if during cranking your battery voltage drops below 8v, your insight will shut off (wasn't intentional, but I was T/S a hard start condition, and watching voltage and it happened to me). For the FICM's powerboard health, you will want to ensure your float voltage (EOKO) is greater than 12.1v before starting the truck. If the batteries don't have enough power the FICM can't maintain it's 48v."

One thing I want to get into are the HPO issues and Turbo Sticking / Overboost symptoms. If any of y'all have reading that associate with those conditions (or anything I haven't covered). Feel free to post up, or shoot me a PM.
 

·
Slacker
Joined
·
19,118 Posts
Thread has been stuck. Thank you, Ben, for your efforts! :thumb:
 

·
The Silent Service
Joined
·
5,390 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Thread has been stuck. Thank you, Ben, for your efforts! :thumb:
Thanks for another Sticky. I appreciate being able to get all this information in one location. :thumb: And still be able to have a working document.
 
1 - 20 of 223 Posts
Top