I'm not a Ford tech, but I work on large ag equipment and am certified on 4.5l and 15l Cummins if it matters. If it wasn't for emissions related crap, I wouldn't have much engine work
Valid Reasons for Deleting 2017+ Powerstrokes???
Hey folks,
So I have owned the 7.3, 6.0 and now a 2017 6.7L with 37,000 miles. We all know all the benefits to a full delete on the 6.0s, 6.4s and early 6.7s.
So the poll question is, should you delete 2017+ 6.7l Powerstrokes or not? If you vote, please share your perspective and hopefully real-life experience with this motor.
Like most, after purchasing the 2017, I immediately just ASSUMED a full delete would be needed to ensure long-term reliability. However, after researching the topic and looking at all of Ford's improvements in this newest 6.7l generation I have come to the conclusion that a delete is simply unnecessary. I am not seeing reliability issues related directly to the emissions on these trucks. So deletes, especially for low mile trucks (under 100k), seem to be more "fad" than a choice supported with evidence. Appears to me, that many guys/gals are simply making assumptions on the benefits due to prior year emission related issues (certainly for pre-2015 powerstrokes).
While I am no tree hugger, I also think retaining the emissions is the responsible thing to do for our environment, especially if the performance benefits are small or unproven and not quantified. Not sure if there is enough data available from 2017+ deleted truck owners at this point. I also use my truck strictly for heavy towing (15-25k loads), not for show boating, so my perspective may be different. I do plan on having over 300,000 miles on this truck with 10+ years of ownership. So if a performance mod will significantly improve engine life and reliability I want to do it. As such, my 1st mod was a Amsoil dual bypass oil filter system.
But I wanted to get people's perspective on this? I assume this is a highly debatable topic. It would be superb to hear opinions from professional diesel mechanics with years of experience on the newer 6.7s?
So I have owned the 7.3, 6.0 and now a 2017 6.7L with 37,000 miles. We all know all the benefits to a full delete on the 6.0s, 6.4s and early 6.7s.
So the poll question is, should you delete 2017+ 6.7l Powerstrokes or not? If you vote, please share your perspective and hopefully real-life experience with this motor.
Like most, after purchasing the 2017, I immediately just ASSUMED a full delete would be needed to ensure long-term reliability. However, after researching the topic and looking at all of Ford's improvements in this newest 6.7l generation I have come to the conclusion that a delete is simply unnecessary. I am not seeing reliability issues related directly to the emissions on these trucks. So deletes, especially for low mile trucks (under 100k), seem to be more "fad" than a choice supported with evidence. Appears to me, that many guys/gals are simply making assumptions on the benefits due to prior year emission related issues (certainly for pre-2015 powerstrokes).
While I am no tree hugger, I also think retaining the emissions is the responsible thing to do for our environment, especially if the performance benefits are small or unproven and not quantified. Not sure if there is enough data available from 2017+ deleted truck owners at this point. I also use my truck strictly for heavy towing (15-25k loads), not for show boating, so my perspective may be different. I do plan on having over 300,000 miles on this truck with 10+ years of ownership. So if a performance mod will significantly improve engine life and reliability I want to do it. As such, my 1st mod was a Amsoil dual bypass oil filter system.
But I wanted to get people's perspective on this? I assume this is a highly debatable topic. It would be superb to hear opinions from professional diesel mechanics with years of experience on the newer 6.7s?
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I’ve often wondered the same about emissions on tuning; does that mean it’ll clog up faster??I agree with the last two comments. I’ve got some family and friends who work in the service department of my local dealer and they all say most of the time, when a Powerstroke comes in for repairs it’s emissions related. The truck is a lot happier being deleted. Even on the stock power level, it feels free compared to before. The added fuel economy and not having to use def is also a bonus. I know some of the bigger tuning companies have to play by the new rules, but wouldn’t the added power from emissions compliant tuning create more problems with heat and clogging?
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Do you happen to know if there’s any deletes for the John Deere tier 4 engines? This is something I’d like to do after the warranty expires.I'm not a Ford tech, but I work on large ag equipment and am certified on 4.5l and 15l Cummins if it matters. If it wasn't for emissions related crap, I wouldn't have much engine work
DEF at Walmart is about $13 for 2.5 gallons. So after I drive 125,000 miles, I will have (cattle) pissed away about $3250. Something to through into the equation.Deleted so I don’t have to deal with def Fluid. Don’t need to worry about yet another fluid level for no reason. And the tuning made the truck run so much better it’s crazy. But emissions present tunning probably does too. But if im going to toss the warranty than why would I keep it. I tow heavy all the time and def was adding up. I’d need 2.5 gal
Every 500 miles. My time is to
Valuable to keep up with that bs.
Thats what I’m thinking. Some advertise gains of 150 hp with em on tuning.I’ve often wondered the same about emissions on tuning; does that mean it’ll clog up faster??
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TrueDEF at Walmart is about $13 for 2.5 gallons. So after I drive 125,000 miles, I will have (cattle) pissed away about $3250. Something to through into the equation.
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There's a guy up here in Helena that does them. I work for JD and only know of a couple that are deleted in this area.Do you happen to know if there’s any deletes for the John Deere tier 4 engines? This is something I’d like to do after the warranty expires.
Cool! Glad to know there’s kits available. Now all I gotta do is convince the boss man.There's a guy up here in Helena that does them. I work for JD and only know of a couple that are deleted in this area.
I have no data to back it up, but it seems reasonable to assume if you use the extra HP in a tune, you are going to create more soot and clog the DPF up sooner. However, You are not going to be in the throttle all of the time, so it's probably not that much quicker, depending on how crazy you are. Also, most tunes do not really make a lot of changes from light to mid throttle positions (ie. normal driving), they ramp up the tuning after mid throttle. So technically, a 200hp tune isn't running a lot different from stock on normal driving, but if you mash it, you'll feel it.Thats what I’m thinking. Some advertise gains of 150 hp with em on tuning.
That makes sense. I didn’t think about it that way. I can tell my throttle is a lot snappier tuned and the truck does seem to get rolling quicker with light acceleration. The emissions compliant tuning may not be as hot though.I have no data to back it up, but it seems reasonable to assume if you use the extra HP in a tune, you are going to create more soot and clog the DPF up sooner. However, You are not going to be in the throttle all of the time, so it's probably not that much quicker, depending on how crazy you are. Also, most tunes do not really make a lot of changes from light to mid throttle positions (ie. normal driving), they ramp up the tuning after mid throttle. So technically, a 200hp tune isn't running a lot different from stock on normal driving, but if you mash it, you'll feel it.
I didn't say they did nothing at light to medium throttle. It's just not all that much. Most any tune will help with throttle response, but the bug gains come on after half throttle.That makes sense. I didn’t think about it that way. I can tell my throttle is a lot snappier tuned and the truck does seem to get rolling quicker with light acceleration. The emissions compliant tuning may not be as hot though.
Guess I meant, would the added fuel delivery for quicker response create more Dpf and egr clogging?I didn't say they did nothing at light to medium throttle. It's just not all that much. Most any tune will help with throttle response, but the bug gains come on after half throttle.
Harrell, you bring up a GREAT point. So my plan is to keep stock UNTIL I see issues with the existing emissions equipment on our trucks. BTW, I absolutely love the Banks Derringer system as a legal CARB complient tuning solution (Thanks '16 KRLB City SlickerLet’s just say there are no Benefits as to longevity; deleted truck will last as long as one not deleted (which is hard for me to believe). I pretty sure an egr and dpf will eventually fail maybe later than sooner but it will. So at that point it will be cheaper to deleted than to replace emissions components. So why not go ahead and delete sooner the payback should cover the cost long before the egr and dpf would fail if left on. Or leave it on get 2 mpg less and less hp and if you keep the truck long enough pay more to replace emissions equipment than you would to delete. Do whatever you want. To each his own.
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So it DOES make a lot of sense (ignoring the potential environmental harm & legal ramifications) to delete a truck that has failing emissions equipment. The parts will be cheaper (you removing most of them!) and no worries about future failures. Hopefully none of us see this for hundred of thousands of miles but I will SERIOUSLY consider yanking out my emissions when I run into reliability issues. Having said that, as a whole, my research shows very few failures in truck even with 150,000 - 200,000+ miles.
My guess is by the time this occurs with my 2017, the EPA will have eliminated illegal deleting across the US. It has already begun.....like it or not.
Just curious, why would you buy DEF at WM? I've never bought it other than at the pump. WAY cheaper and most definitely fresh. Are there no places around you that sell it at the pump? No truck stops?DEF at Walmart is about $13 for 2.5 gallons. So after I drive 125,000 miles, I will have (cattle) pissed away about $3250. Something to through into the equation.
The stations that I’ve been to usually don’t have it at the pump. How much is it at pump per gallon?Just curious, why would you buy DEF at WM? I've never bought it other than at the pump. WAY cheaper and most definitely fresh. Are there no places around you that sell it at the pump? No truck stops?
Last time I paid 2.799 for DEF at the pumpThe stations that I’ve been to usually don’t have it at the pump. How much is it at pump per gallon?
Over $1700 for the 125,000 miles. Still something to put into the equation.Last time I paid 2.799 for DEF at the pump
$2.79 per gallonThe stations that I’ve been to usually don’t have it at the pump. How much is it at pump per gallon?
I don’t really have an opinion on buying at the pump or not, but I’m in Vegas and get to Ca, Ut, and Az often, I’ve never seen def at the pump. Maybe I’m not looking for in the right spot.Just curious, why would you buy DEF at WM? I've never bought it other than at the pump. WAY cheaper and most definitely fresh. Are there no places around you that sell it at the pump? No truck stops?
I was getting 6 mpg towing 25k loads and burning 5 gal of def every 800 miles. If I was just driving to work I’d drive a civic. 5 gal DEF per 800 miles, def would be like $8,000 dollars in 100k miles. Deleting was great investmentOver $1700 for the 125,000 miles. Still something to put into the equation.
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