[customfab4x4]

Hey folks,

So I have owned the 7.3, 6.0 and now a 2017 6.7L with 37,000 miles. We all know all the benefits to a full delete on the 6.0s, 6.4s and early 6.7s.

So the poll question is, should you delete 2017+ 6.7l Powerstrokes or not? If you vote, please share your perspective and hopefully real-life experience with this motor.

Like most, after purchasing the 2017, I immediately just ASSUMED a full delete would be needed to ensure long-term reliability. However, after researching the topic and looking at all of Ford's improvements in this newest 6.7l generation I have come to the conclusion that a delete is simply unnecessary. I am not seeing reliability issues related directly to the emissions on these trucks. So deletes, especially for low mile trucks (under 100k), seem to be more "fad" than a choice supported with evidence. Appears to me, that many guys/gals are simply making assumptions on the benefits due to prior year emission related issues (certainly for pre-2015 powerstrokes).

While I am no tree hugger, I also think retaining the emissions is the responsible thing to do for our environment, especially if the performance benefits are small or unproven and not quantified. Not sure if there is enough data available from 2017+ deleted truck owners at this point. I also use my truck strictly for heavy towing (15-25k loads), not for show boating, so my perspective may be different. I do plan on having over 300,000 miles on this truck with 10+ years of ownership. So if a performance mod will significantly improve engine life and reliability I want to do it. As such, my 1st mod was a Amsoil dual bypass oil filter system.

But I wanted to get people's perspective on this? I assume this is a highly debatable topic. It would be superb to hear opinions from professional diesel mechanics with years of experience on the newer 6.7s?

 

[JustinOOO9]

You may want to seek out transport drivers. i.e. those who have 400k plus miles on a bunch of 2014 dodge 3500s, and 2015+ 6.7Ls. Personally the DPFs do more harm than good. The material takes such a drastic extraction process it cannot be mined in the U.S. for crying out loud. But were ok to tear up other countries and transport it on coal/diesel burnign ships across the ocean, then diesel trucks to the manufactures to make our "cleaner trucks" make us feel better. It puts immense wear to over fuel and burn the built up material in the dpf. I.E. using more fuel, wearing out the engine faster vs just letting the truck burn its needed amount.

case in point. The state of Washington removed their emissions test program Jan 2020 because a study they conducted from 1982 til now show it didn't do squat for their air quality. The modern vehicles are already burning at near peak efficiency to help curb whatever pollution they put out. Im not extremist tree hugger but I recycle in the right bins, don't pour my oil in the dirt, I fix my oil leaks, and maintain my vehicles. This gets rather political the further it goes but only you can decide whether its worth deleting or not. There are some strong arguments for both sides but I feel keeping a vehicle on the road longer vs buying a new vehicle every few yrs saves more resources than an expensive DPF system on a mostly plastic truck.

You could disassemble my 1999 7.3l and a 2017 6.7l It took way more resources and had 10x the environmental impact to build and use a 6.7l then the earlier trucks. Im not hear to say don't buy a new truck its your money but delete vs don't delete its based on whether your state requires it for dmv registration/inspection and personal preference.

 

[CLAYFX4]

Since DEF emission systems are an “after treatment” meaning the treatment of emissions occurs in the exhaust system after combustion, they are much better on an engine than the older systems were. However newer motors including 17+ 6.7s have functioning EGR systems, which cause exhaust gases to be recirculated back into the intake side of the engine. The largest benefit to deleting is the eliminate the EGR so the motor is breathing fresh air. Deleting the DEF system is just a bonus and obviously removes added problems down the road as the system ages. Honestly, the tuning out these days is so good that smoke in the form of unburned fuel is a thing of the past, unless you have higher HP tunes that fuel harder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[00t444e]

The reason for deleting a 2017+ Powerstroke are the same as they are for any 08+ diesel truck, better reliability, more fuel efficient, less maintinace and potential issues down the road, and more power.

 

[customfab4x4]

Not arguing against the "traditional" justifications for a delete. However, in reality there is no imperial evidence that shows a WELL MAINTAINED (not hot rodded) truck in stock form = less engine life than a deleted motor. And BTW, I was always a fan of deletes, especially with older versions where the emissions systems where rather new (6.0 and 6.4 especially along with Duramaxs and Cummins, etc).

However, I would like to bring up some articles that argue or warn against it so others can look at both sides and make an informed decision. Also, the EPA is heavily cracking down on aftermarket tuners in just the last 2 years. Scares me a bit. Plus you do take a hit on aftermarket value if your truck is deleted (I dont plan on selling mine...driving it into the ground).

Some opposing articles that warns against it:

The Cold Hard Truth on Truck Emission Deletes and Tunes

Every single day we receive emails, phone calls, and live chats with clients who want to perform emission deletes on their trucks. All these clients have the same problem – repetitive, costly repairs on their vehicles, and they are tired of it. I genuinely sympathize with them; a lot of these...

www.diesellaptops.com

Redirect Notice

Diesel Tech Questions: Emissions Deleting and Checking Codes

Diesel pickup tech questions regarding legality of DPF/EGR deletes, cause of P0401 fault code, and best winter tire choices.

www.trucktrend.com

Overall, I completely agree with reasons why to delete. I am just not 100% anymore they outweigh the con's. And the EPA risk is becoming much higher as they crack down on aftermarket companies.

My plan is to sit and watch at least for another 30k miles or so. Let my warranty period end and see how these newer trucks are doing in stock form with 200k+ miles.

 

[CLAYFX4]

Not arguing against the "traditional" justifications for a delete. However, in reality there is no imperial evidence that shows a WELL MAINTAINED (not hot rodded) truck in stock form = less engine life than a deleted motor. And BTW, I was always a fan of deletes, especially with older versions where the emissions systems where rather new (6.0 and 6.4 especially along with Duramaxs and Cummins, etc).

However, I would like to bring up some articles that argue or warn against it so others can look at both sides and make an informed decision. Also, the EPA is heavily cracking down on aftermarket tuners in just the last 2 years. Scares me a bit. Plus you do take a hit on aftermarket value if your truck is deleted (I dont plan on selling mine...driving it into the ground).

Some opposing articles that warns against it:

The Cold Hard Truth on Truck Emission Deletes and Tunes

Every single day we receive emails, phone calls, and live chats with clients who want to perform emission deletes on their trucks. All these clients have the same problem – repetitive, costly repairs on their vehicles, and they are tired of it. I genuinely sympathize with them; a lot of these...

www.diesellaptops.com

Redirect Notice

Diesel Tech Questions: Emissions Deleting and Checking Codes

Diesel pickup tech questions regarding legality of DPF/EGR deletes, cause of P0401 fault code, and best winter tire choices.

www.trucktrend.com

Overall, I completely agree with reasons why to delete. I am just not 100% anymore they outweigh the con's. And the EPA risk is becoming much higher as they crack down on aftermarket companies.

My plan is to sit and watch at least for another 30k miles or so. Let my warranty period end and see how these newer trucks are doing in stock form with 200k+ miles.

I agree, I’ll go a step further and say I don’t think one should delete unless they want more power, want to add aftermarket turbos/fuel systems, etc, period. And if you want more power you don’t care about the warranty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[G8orFord]

A large percentage of the problems with the 6.7 are from the DPF/SCR/DEF system itself. While you will probably never recoup the cost of a delete on a 6.7, one of the biggest benefits in doing it is the better fuel mileage. The extra cost of regens and DEF add up time. As far as most performance gains go, there's no real reason to delete just for that, especially just for a tow pig. The tuners are getting pretty good numbers with emissions in-place tunes these days. Now if you're really planning on jacking up the power numbers with big turbos, injectors, intake systems, etc. then you would be silly not to delete to start with.

As mentioned above, with good tuning, today's diesels burn so clean that there's really no need for these systems at all, but that's what you get from an untethered EPA and a few snowflakes. It is my opinion, when it's all said and done, that the DPF/SCR/DEF systems and the baggage associated, are as big of a polluter as anything.

 

[HeavyAssault]

I'm sure these thoughts last long until your DEF heater goes out, Ford claims "contaminated" DEF, and you are staring at the repair bill. Maybe you get a crappy DPF system that keeps throwing codes.

If it causes the truck to stop working, then you should be able to fix it. Hence I love the "right to repair" mindset with diesel trucks.

With all that....Tesla (and any other EV maker) has shown what the future holds. I'm betting by 2030 light duty "consumer" diesel trucks (F250/F350/F450) are LONG gone from Ford's lineup. They will all be EV, doing things we can only dream of.

 

[00t444e]

Not arguing against the "traditional" justifications for a delete. However, in reality there is no imperial evidence that shows a WELL MAINTAINED (not hot rodded) truck in stock form = less engine life than a deleted motor. And BTW, I was always a fan of deletes, especially with older versions where the emissions systems where rather new (6.0 and 6.4 especially along with Duramaxs and Cummins, etc).

However, I would like to bring up some articles that argue or warn against it so others can look at both sides and make an informed decision. Also, the EPA is heavily cracking down on aftermarket tuners in just the last 2 years. Scares me a bit. Plus you do take a hit on aftermarket value if your truck is deleted (I dont plan on selling mine...driving it into the ground).

Some opposing articles that warns against it:

The Cold Hard Truth on Truck Emission Deletes and Tunes

Every single day we receive emails, phone calls, and live chats with clients who want to perform emission deletes on their trucks. All these clients have the same problem – repetitive, costly repairs on their vehicles, and they are tired of it. I genuinely sympathize with them; a lot of these...

www.diesellaptops.com

Redirect Notice

Diesel Tech Questions: Emissions Deleting and Checking Codes

Diesel pickup tech questions regarding legality of DPF/EGR deletes, cause of P0401 fault code, and best winter tire choices.

www.trucktrend.com

Overall, I completely agree with reasons why to delete. I am just not 100% anymore they outweigh the con's. And the EPA risk is becoming much higher as they crack down on aftermarket companies.

My plan is to sit and watch at least for another 30k miles or so. Let my warranty period end and see how these newer trucks are doing in stock form with 200k+ miles.

Keep in mind most big companies like that are under close watch by the EPA, it would benefit them more to feed you propaganda than to tell the truth, or they are just trying to sell their product.

 

['16 KRLB City Slicker]

Not arguing against the "traditional" justifications for a delete. However, in reality there is no imperial evidence that shows a WELL MAINTAINED (not hot rodded) truck in stock form = less engine life than a deleted motor. And BTW, I was always a fan of deletes, especially with older versions where the emissions systems where rather new (6.0 and 6.4 especially along with Duramaxs and Cummins, etc).

However, I would like to bring up some articles that argue or warn against it so others can look at both sides and make an informed decision. Also, the EPA is heavily cracking down on aftermarket tuners in just the last 2 years. Scares me a bit. Plus you do take a hit on aftermarket value if your truck is deleted (I dont plan on selling mine...driving it into the ground).

Some opposing articles that warns against it:

The Cold Hard Truth on Truck Emission Deletes and Tunes

Every single day we receive emails, phone calls, and live chats with clients who want to perform emission deletes on their trucks. All these clients have the same problem – repetitive, costly repairs on their vehicles, and they are tired of it. I genuinely sympathize with them; a lot of these...

www.diesellaptops.com

Redirect Notice

Diesel Tech Questions: Emissions Deleting and Checking Codes

Diesel pickup tech questions regarding legality of DPF/EGR deletes, cause of P0401 fault code, and best winter tire choices.

www.trucktrend.com

Overall, I completely agree with reasons why to delete. I am just not 100% anymore they outweigh the con's. And the EPA risk is becoming much higher as they crack down on aftermarket companies.

My plan is to sit and watch at least for another 30k miles or so. Let my warranty period end and see how these newer trucks are doing in stock form with 200k+ miles.

I'm much less of a proponent then you are.

Personally, if I do ANY performance mods I will stick with the emissions legal Banks Derringer
60 HP
130 LB/Ft
All dyno proven numbers to the wheels.

Best part is...warranty stays intact and I don't have to spend another $2000 to risk damaging my vehicle for it not to be in warranty.

To each their own.

 

[customfab4x4]

Not sure about what the future holds but I am not looking forward to owning a silent tow truck! Down with Tesla!! 😁😁😁

I dont think the arguement for improved fuel mileage compared to the cost of a delete by a diesel shop makes any sense. The gains I see most people claim are about +2 mpg. Runs those numbers....be a very long time to recoup that investment. You are talking about driving at least 200,000 to 300,000 miles before breaking even!! Especially considering that I bought diesel at $1.78 near Houston last week!! Really not a valid arguement IMO for a delete whatsoever considering JUST this factor. And remember, this turbos will almost certainly fail sooner with a delete due to fairly significant increases in heat.

Good discussion. Like I said, gonna wait for more 2017+ owners to be test subjects. It does seem to me that a great majority of people who support a delete, are not looking into the Engineering improvements made on the latest generations of 6.7s. My biggest concern is actually getting WATER in the injection system NOT my emissions. So I am adding a secondary Racor fuel filter / water separator. This is a $100 mod that makes total sense to me!!

 

[PeanutFarmerF250]

If my dealer wasn’t cool with deletes, I definitely would have left mine stock. In my opinion, there’s too much going on mechanically with these newer vehicles to void a warranty. Honestly though, I’ve seen a great improvement in fuel economy since deleted. With good tuning and taking it easy I’ve seen it hold 18mgp in town and 20-24mpg on the highway. On the 100hp setting, I’m getting far better mpg than my wife’s ecoboost expedition. We’ve run older diesels all my life and they’re still running everyday, I think due to good maintenance and no emissions suffocating the motor. I personally can’t stand what the emissions components are doing to these newer trucks.

 

[harrelljr99]

Not sure about what the future holds but I am not looking forward to owning a silent tow truck! Down with Tesla!!

I dont think the arguement for improved fuel mileage compared to the cost of a delete by a diesel shop makes any sense. The gains I see most people claim are about +2 mpg. Runs those numbers....be a very long time to recoup that investment. You are talking about driving at least 200,000 to 300,000 miles before breaking even!! Especially considering that I bought diesel at $1.78 near Houston last week!! Really not a valid arguement IMO for a delete whatsoever considering JUST this factor. And remember, this turbos will almost certainly fail sooner with a delete due to fairly significant increases in heat.

Good discussion. Like I said, gonna wait for more 2017+ owners to be test subjects. It does seem to me that a great majority of people who support a delete, are not looking into the Engineering improvements made on the latest generations of 6.7s. My biggest concern is actually getting WATER in the injection system NOT my emissions. So I am adding a secondary Racor fuel filter / water separator. This is a $100 mod that makes total sense to me!!

“The gains I see most people claim are about +2 mpg. Runs those numbers....be a very long time to recoup that investment. You are talking about driving at least 200,000 to 300,000 miles before breaking even!!”

At typical fuel prices (let’s just say $2.89) it’d take bout 125,000 miles
to recoup $2,236


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Work Truck Fanatic]

With all that....Tesla (and any other EV maker) has shown what the future holds. I'm betting by 2030 light duty "consumer" diesel trucks (F250/F350/F450) are LONG gone from Ford's lineup. They will all be EV, doing things we can only dream of.

@HeavyAssault man that is not that far away. At first it seems too optimistic. But Ford's alignment with Rivian could make a decade possible in the consumer market.

Honestly though, I’ve seen a great improvement in fuel economy since deleted. With good tuning and taking it easy I’ve seen it hold 18mgp in town and 20-24mpg on the highway. On the 100hp setting, I’m getting far better mpg than my wife’s ecoboost expedition.

I consistently get at least 18 MPGs (hand calculated over several tanks) going back and forth to work and its all stock. On the hwy the best I have seen is 21 MPGs going 70-73 MPH at 1680-1760 RPMs. I don't turtle around and when I come from a stop I try to get up to speed and higher gears. But I am conscious of how I drive and try to adjust my driving to efficiency. If I was deleted I would probably get better mileage with the same driving habits though but not enough for me to pull the trigger

 

[customfab4x4]

“The gains I see most people claim are about +2 mpg. Runs those numbers....be a very long time to recoup that investment. You are talking about driving at least 200,000 to 300,000 miles before breaking even!!”

At typical fuel prices (let’s just say $2.89) it’d take bout 125,000 miles
to recoup $2,236


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly, using those assumptions, that is still a lot of mileage IMO to break even. Now there could be other gains associated with fewer repairs. And those gains could be huge & is a huge justification for folks doing a delete. We all simply assume that a delete results in fewer repairs but this is totally unproven on 6.7s, especially the more modern generations. While on the flip side, you would need to consider the de-valuation of the vehicle in the used marketplace.

This is really a circular argument. I can easily see both sides.

The real debate which I don't think anyone can answer is if a DELETE truly results in fewer repairs & longer engine life. I always believed the theory in this for the 6.0 and 6.4. However, when looking for used 2014+ Powerstrokes......I was commonly seeing vehicles with 150K - 200K miles stock with very, very few repairs on CarFax reports. The data is there....someone just needs to mine it all!!

Anyway, I'm beating a dead horse at this point. Love to have a certified diesel mechanic or Ford mechanic chime in with their real-world experiences???? When I spoke with two well-known diesel shops near me (Malone Diesel and Dripping Springs Diesel), they both said that I would be wasting my money on a delete with a modern 6.7L. The failure rates are extremely low, especially compared to their predecessors. Just saying....as most shops would love to sell you a performance service such as a delete. Says a lot to me.

 

[customfab4x4]

@HeavyAssault man that is not that far away. At first it seems too optimistic. But Ford's alignment with Rivian could make a decade possible in the consumer market.


I consistently get at least 18 MPGs (hand calculated over several tanks) going back and forth to work and its all stock. On the hwy the best I have seen is 21 MPGs going 70-73 MPH at 1680-1760 RPMs. I don't turtle around and when I come from a stop I try to get up to speed and higher gears. But I am conscious of how I drive and try to adjust my driving to efficiency. If I was deleted I would probably get better mileage with the same driving habits though but not enough for me to pull the trigger

21 MPG is pretty impressive! I'm getting 18 MPG stock on mine but that's with a feather foot. If I was guaranteed to get 22 MPG on the highway, I'd probably go for a Delete. But problem is, in reality my truck is a work tow truck. And I don't think you'd see any different in tow modes. I certainly didn't in my 6.0 when towing. Now I gained about 2 MPG on a +75HP tune but towing risked my head gaskets so never did it. I would run a +30 HP tow tune which saw no MPG gains from stock.

I actually think that running water ethanol is the best solution for those of us that want to maximize towing performance. If I had kept the 6.0, this would have been my solution. I was constantly fighting EGTs with heavy loads.

 

[jepalmer]

Hey folks,

So I have owned the 7.3, 6.0 and now a 2017 6.7L with 37,000 miles. We all know all the benefits to a full delete on the 6.0s, 6.4s and early 6.7s.

So the poll question is, should you delete 2017+ 6.7l Powerstrokes or not? If you vote, please share your perspective and hopefully real-life experience with this motor.

Like most, after purchasing the 2017, I immediately just ASSUMED a full delete would be needed to ensure long-term reliability. However, after researching the topic and looking at all of Ford's improvements in this newest 6.7l generation I have come to the conclusion that a delete is simply unnecessary. I am not seeing reliability issues related directly to the emissions on these trucks. So deletes, especially for low mile trucks (under 100k), seem to be more "fad" than a choice supported with evidence. Appears to me, that many guys/gals are simply making assumptions on the benefits due to prior year emission related issues (certainly for pre-2015 powerstrokes).

While I am no tree hugger, I also think retaining the emissions is the responsible thing to do for our environment, especially if the performance benefits are small or unproven and not quantified. Not sure if there is enough data available from 2017+ deleted truck owners at this point. I also use my truck strictly for heavy towing (15-25k loads), not for show boating, so my perspective may be different. I do plan on having over 300,000 miles on this truck with 10+ years of ownership. So if a performance mod will significantly improve engine life and reliability I want to do it. As such, my 1st mod was a Amsoil dual bypass oil filter system.

But I wanted to get people's perspective on this? I assume this is a highly debatable topic. It would be superb to hear opinions from professional diesel mechanics with years of experience on the newer 6.7s?

I've read a lot of opinions on the advantages of aftermarket additions/deletions. Has anyone read an article that had good documented evidence as to their advantages or disadvantages over 250,000 miles? I need proof before I do anything to my (currently stock 2011 6.7) truck.

 

[harrelljr99]

Let’s just say there are no Benefits as to longevity; deleted truck will last as long as one not deleted (which is hard for me to believe). I pretty sure an egr and dpf will eventually fail maybe later than sooner but it will. So at that point it will be cheaper to deleted than to replace emissions components. So why not go ahead and delete sooner the payback should cover the cost long before the egr and dpf would fail if left on. Or leave it on get 2 mpg less and less hp and if you keep the truck long enough pay more to replace emissions equipment than you would to delete. Do whatever you want. To each his own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jetjock15]

Deleted so I don’t have to deal with def Fluid. Don’t need to worry about yet another fluid level for no reason. And the tuning made the truck run so much better it’s crazy. But emissions present tunning probably does too. But if im going to toss the warranty than why would I keep it. I tow heavy all the time and def was adding up. I’d need 2.5 gal
Every 500 miles. My time is to
Valuable to keep up with that bs.

 

[PeanutFarmerF250]

I agree with the last two comments. I’ve got some family and friends who work in the service department of my local dealer and they all say most of the time, when a Powerstroke comes in for repairs it’s emissions related. The truck is a lot happier being deleted. Even on the stock power level, it feels free compared to before. The added fuel economy and not having to use def is also a bonus. I know some of the bigger tuning companies have to play by the new rules, but wouldn’t the added power from emissions compliant tuning create more problems with heat and clogging?