Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum banner
1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
342 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All-after amassing parts for a year, i finally got to install my rize 8 inch lift today. After a smooth installation (following directions exactly) i took the truck for a test ride. After a quarter mile, i hit a small bump and instantly the steering wheel shook violently and the entire truck started shuddering in the famed "death wobble." I had to slow to a near stop to get the truck back on track.

This continued to happen. A quick phone call to a trusted source recommended placing the Castor at -4.0. Stock recommendations from the alignment machine are +1.4-+3.4. Has anyone else done this on their ride?

Does anyone else have recommendations? Whats interesting is that after removing the 39.5s and putting the stock tires back on, the death wobble decreased significantly. It was still there, but more managable.

Any ideas or input are greatly appreciated. Ill be back at it tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks
 

·
Viking Heavy Diesel
Joined
·
20,721 Posts
Dang that sucks dude. I dont know much about this sorta thing so I will bump ya!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
577 Posts
Are you running a steering stabilizer?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
342 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i dont have a stabilizer yet, but was always told to get all that alignment stuff right first and if it doesnt wobble and drives straight...set it then add the stabilizer.

im getting one shipped tomorrow ASAP though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
577 Posts
It should help some but it seems like your either toed to far out or in and there tracking against each other. Get the alignment and and see if it dosnt go away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
All-after amassing parts for a year, i finally got to install my rize 8 inch lift today. After a smooth installation (following directions exactly) i took the truck for a test ride. After a quarter mile, i hit a small bump and instantly the steering wheel shook violently and the entire truck started shuddering in the famed "death wobble." I had to slow to a near stop to get the truck back on track.

This continued to happen. A quick phone call to a trusted source recommended placing the Castor at -4.0. Stock recommendations from the alignment machine are +1.4-+3.4. Has anyone else done this on their ride?

Does anyone else have recommendations? Whats interesting is that after removing the 39.5s and putting the stock tires back on, the death wobble decreased significantly. It was still there, but more managable.

Any ideas or input are greatly appreciated. Ill be back at it tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks
Have you had it aligned with with the new tires on? My installers had a small issue of not being able to find the right style tool (for a couple of days) to fit on a rockstar wheel to get the alignment done. They specifically said it had to be done with the new tires on, and not with the old style rim & tire. It makes a difference in the alignment.

I would suspect that your wobble reduces with the stock tires because of the lack of alignment (or it being more-aligned toe-wise to your stock tires). After you get it lined up properly (toe for the tires, caster for the lift, basically), it should decrease quite a bit or ideally, disappear. Solid front axle trucks are VERY sensitive to proper geometry, so lifting it (no matter how good the lift) and not having it checked immediately, will have quirky handling. After you line it up, I would put on a dual stabilizer kit as well, but agree that you should have this straightened out as much as possible before hand.

Good luck... you'll get it straightened out!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
237 Posts
I can only speak for myself I just installed an 8 rize kit on my 09 with 38x15.5 tires and rides great. 1st thing you need to get a STEERING STABILZER that is going to change everything. The reason I say that a few years ago I had dodge with a lift removed the lift and took off the steering stabilzer thought I could sell it (after mark) I was wrong took it for a ride and could not hold the steering wheel still. As little as they may appear it is needed. I installed top gunz duel set up and mine rides great and has not even been to shop for an alignment yet. Good luck:thumb:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
342 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I can only speak for myself I just installed an 8 rize kit on my 09 with 38x15.5 tires and rides great. 1st thing you need to get a STEERING STABILZER that is going to change everything. The reason I say that a few years ago I had dodge with a lift removed the lift and took off the steering stabilzer thought I could sell it (after mark) I was wrong took it for a ride and could not hold the steering wheel still. As little as they may appear it is needed. I installed top gunz duel set up and mine rides great and has not even been to shop for an alignment yet. Good luck:thumb:
did you do the lift yourself? did you set the adjustment eccentrics at the 5 oclock position as recommended by rize?

just trying to figure out why my truck is so different.

thanks for all the advice. ill be looking into everything, currently i cant get it aligned with the big tires as we dont have the right tool either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
237 Posts
did you do the lift yourself? did you set the adjustment eccentrics at the 5 oclock position as recommended by rize?

just trying to figure out why my truck is so different.

thanks for all the advice. ill be looking into everything, currently i cant get it aligned with the big tires as we dont have the right tool either.
Yes and set at 6 oclock
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
Just went under my truck for a second to check things out. The upper and lower arms should have the same amount of threads showing at the heim end, per-side. ie: Passenger upper and lower arm should match visible threads, and driver upper and lower should match. Both sides should be very close (within one thread) from one another. The adjustment eccentrics are between 5 & 6 o'clock passenger and between 6 & 7 o'clock driver. Both, slightly rearward of the down / 6 o'clock position, mirroring each other.

Pics, just in case it helps you out.

Passenger side: (the first pic, tilt your head to the right a few degrees to get a better idea. must have tilted the camera.)





Drivers side:



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
342 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
zeroone...thanks thats pretty close to where we set everything up. we hit the 5 oclock position exactly and had the link bars set up same as yours.

i currently can not align the truck with the big tires on as the equipment we are using doesnt have the capability of reaching around them.

did you have your stabilizer on from day one as well?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
did you have your stabilizer on from day one as well?
Yes, I have had them on from day one. Though my installers were very picky about having it aligned perfectly as well, so I can't say if they will completely eliminate your problem. They may be enough to get you by until you do find a shop that has the proper equipment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
327 Posts
I would bet my life on your problem being your castor. You cannot set your castor the same with big tires as you can with small tires. Trust me, I spent over 1 year fighting this problem with my 91 4runner after doing a solid axle conversion. I was fine running my 33's and smaller but when i put the 38's on I could not hold the wheel until after I got through the "death wobble" speed zone. It only happened between 40 and 80kph for my truck. It was fine before or after I got through that zone.

You have to get the alignment done with the bigger tires. I had an alignment done and it was 100% within spec yet I could not hold the truck on the road. I reset the toe myself using a measuring tape which made a little bit of difference, but it was not until I changed the castor that I could actually drive it safely.

Yes, a steering stabilizer will help but if you have to use a steering stablizer to control the wobble than you have castor problems. After getting my castor set right I could drive my truck with 1 finger at any speed with the 38's and not have any wobble at all without running a steering stabilizer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
342 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
wonton...how did you know what the right castor was? i have gotten recommendations of -4.0 degrees, but how did you figure out where the right spot was, trial and error?

thanks for the input
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
342 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
UPDATE-just heard back from the RIZE engineers and their recommendation is the steering stabilizer as well. Im a little frustrated by that, you would think that they might have a better response than add a steering stabilizer, but well see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
327 Posts
UPDATE-just heard back from the RIZE engineers and their recommendation is the steering stabilizer as well. Im a little frustrated by that, you would think that they might have a better response than add a steering stabilizer, but well see.
I call BS.

A truck with the proper steering geometry doesn't need a steering stablizer. Something else is the problem. Steering stabilizers only hide the problem.

The problem your having is the same as that crappy shopping cart at the store that has the 1 wheel thats going crazy. Castor is wrong. Noticed the good wheel doesnt need a stabilizer to make it track right. Its the same principle as the castor on your front truck. Get the castor right and the wobble will dissapear without the need for a steering stabilzer.

Yes, trial and error got mine working right. I had to rebuild my front hanger assembly to get the angles right and even then we fluked. I don't actually know what the final number was that we went with.

My buddy works at ford. He said 4 out of 12 trucks came in this last month with problems. Turns out the tre's are a weak point on these. They look fine and all 4 got missed during the wheel alignments but when the problems were still there after the alignments they sent them to him. Make sure your tre's are good. These are heavy trucks and lifts and big tires put more stress on the tre's.

My tre's are getting looked at tonight. My truck wanders like a mofo, i thought it was the wide tires and the ruts in the road, but I am starting to wonder if its not my tre's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
The problem your having is the same as that crappy shopping cart at the store that has the 1 wheel thats going crazy. Castor is wrong. Noticed the good wheel doesnt need a stabilizer to make it track right. Its the same principle as the castor on your front truck. Get the castor right and the wobble will dissapear without the need for a steering stabilzer.
That is a perfect analogy. :thumb:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
342 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
OK gents. I talked to rize today (someone who had a clue what was going on). Apparently their eccentric settings on the quadlinks are designed to take the castor to the minimum factory ford allowance, about + 1.4 degrees. The tech agreed that some trucks do require the castor to be set below this, but can not recommend it (per house rules). He said that he had taken a few trucks to -2.0 or more to get the death wobble to subside.

He also agreed that you DO NOT need a stabilizer to get the trucks right. They should primarily be for a backup on the system. He recommended finding 0 on the eccentrics then using the quadlinks to set caster at exactly 0. The eccentrics provide up to 6 degrees of change in the castor, so in theory if the eccentrics are in the middle and castor is set to 0 on the quadilinks, you wouldbe able to move from -3 to +3. He said. Move by one or two positons on the dial and find where the truck is happy. Then lock it in and get final alignment for the other parameters.

I guess this is where i head from here. My only fear is that setting at such a low castor will create some crazy bad situation down the road (i dont know what though).

I would love to know what kind of readings those of you that have a working system are at.

Thanks again for the advice, ill keep you all posted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
725 Posts
Lets get something straight right off the bat you need stablizers. Its like surfing on stilks with out them! you just lifted your truck 8" and its not going to ride like stock no matter how good the alignment shop told you they (they are lying thier @ss off)

**Also you do need to get your castor in line, you might need to go to a different shop more suited to your needs I.E. a heavy duty truck place.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top