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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've been doing pretty well scoring oil from unconventional grease sources. Probably have about 400 gallons stored up for winter right now. The idea is to avoid having to process in -19F weather.

In what would be considered a populated area - Denver Metro - there are two things that come to bear:

1. it has a higher population density, more industry and more affluence than more rural areas which in turn equals more restaurants = more used oil

2. #1 means that there is also more competition from rendering companies that are locking up customers.

This makes it important for the enterprising home grease user to be creative in securing oil (note I said oil, not sources).

Here are some places I secure oil from on a semi-regular basis and have done well so far:

1. Catholic church fish fries.
2. County Fairs - funnel cake oil!
3. School cafeterias (can be semi-permanent arrangements)
4. Camp grounds - lots of people deep fry when RV camping - just put up a sign in the ranger cabin or bulletin board.
5. Mobile lunch buses at job sites - can also be semi-permanent.

Be prepared to offer containers, funnels - anything to make it easier on the source to give you their oil!

Any other ideas?
 

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great ideas. my only remainign sources are schools. the renderers so far dont want their pho, so i have a lot available to me.

i have heard if you can get in good with a mass food production company that uses grease (potato chips, etc.) that they may be willing to give you a drum or so a week even though they are paid for it. a while back a guy in my area foudn that they dump like 400 gallons a week and he knew a manager there and got 1-2 drums a week.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have a Butterball slaughterhouse/processor nearby - but so far haven't been able to find anyone to talk to. Need to walk into their office on site one of these days and ask to talk to a manager. It's a toss up whether or not they use veg oil.

Boulder Canyon potato chips (I'm in Boulder) are made in Arizona :hehe:

great ideas. my only remainign sources are schools. the renderers so far dont want their pho, so i have a lot available to me.

i have heard if you can get in good with a mass food production company that uses grease (potato chips, etc.) that they may be willing to give you a drum or so a week even though they are paid for it. a while back a guy in my area foudn that they dump like 400 gallons a week and he knew a manager there and got 1-2 drums a week.
 

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I have a Butterball slaughterhouse/processor nearby - but so far haven't been able to find anyone to talk to. Need to walk into their office on site one of these days and ask to talk to a manager. It's a toss up whether or not they use veg oil.

Boulder Canyon potato chips (I'm in Boulder) are made in Arizona :hehe:

"get a rope..."
 

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Be carefull getting oil from unknown sorces like carnival vendors...i got some from the state fair that had "boil out" in it. :doh:
If you centrifuge that will suposedly remove boil out and if you water wash that will get it out as well. I don't use either of those methods though and it cost me a set of injectors.
 

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whats boil out? oil that just got too hot?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Boil Out is a caustic cleaning agent used to clean grills and fryers. It can erode injectors and cause all kinds of havoc on a fuel system. In theory it should fall out along with water and other contaminants if the oil is well settled and poured off the top. Otherwise a mist wash should be able to get it out. Mostly if you encounter a batch with it you should toss it. Titrating can give you an idea if it's in there too.
 

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Boil out is Sodium Hydroxid....Lye. It will destroy injectors.
Some cooks use it to clean out the fryers after they drain the used oil and then they pour the chemical in with the oil for disposal.
 

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How will titration tell you if lye is in there?
 

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of all the grease research i have done i have not come across this one! thanks guys. i knew about the magnesol but thats a bit different.

thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
of all the grease research i have done i have not come across this one! thanks guys. i knew about the magnesol but thats a bit different.

thanks
I wouldn't worry too much about NaOH aka Boil Out.

NaOH is one of the preferred chemicals used to precipitate free fatty acids out of WVO in order to make biodiesel. Waste oil contains FFA's which will combine with NaOH or KOH to make soap. Well settled and processed WVO that has been appropriately dewatered will have negligible amounts of NaOH in it if any at all. The NaOH is hydrophilic and will fall out with water.

Mechanics often diagnose etching of injectors that has been done by water as a WVO issue. We all know how badly stealerships want to blame everything on biodiesel or WVO (at least IMHE) and if even one injector fails (~300.00 in parts on a PSD) they want to do the whole shootin' match for $6,000.00 FRNs - installed - 9 times out of 10 they won't tell you that it would be a good time to do your glow plugs either. But I digress. If the water contains caustics (base chemicals) it is really unimportant as steel does not react with alkalines. In fact commerical soap making operations use huge steel vats to react NaOH with their stock oils.

WVO + Lye + H2o = soap

Period. Full Stop.
 

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I wouldn't worry too much about NaOH aka Boil Out.

NaOH is one of the preferred chemicals used to precipitate free fatty acids out of WVO in order to make biodiesel. Waste oil contains FFA's which will combine with NaOH or KOH to make soap. Well settled and processed WVO that has been appropriately dewatered will have negligible amounts of NaOH in it if any at all. The NaOH is hydrophilic and will fall out with water.

Mechanics often diagnose etching of injectors that has been done by water as a WVO issue. We all know how badly stealerships want to blame everything on biodiesel or WVO (at least IMHE) and if even one injector fails (~300.00 in parts on a PSD) they want to do the whole shootin' match for $6,000.00 FRNs. If the water contains caustics (base chemicals) it is really unimportant as steel does not react with alkalines. In fact commerical soap making operations use huge steel vats to react NaOH with their stock oils.

WVO + Lye + H2o = soap

Period. Full Stop.
You arent worried about lye in your WVO? Are you nuts or :tard:
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
You arent worried about lye in your WVO? Are you nuts or :tard:
No I'm not worried about NaOH in my oil. Why you ask? Because as I wrote in my last post it precipitates out with water - properly dewatered WVO is not a problem. NaOH if is existent in the batch of WVO chances are it reacted with the FFA's in it and precipitated out - that which didn't react falls out with water as it's a hydrophilic chemical. It's a fact.

If your oil from a source normally titrates to say 4-5 (common) and suddenly titrates to 0-1 then you know that it's exceptionally clean or has had some NaOH in it that has made it less alkaline and more base.

It's simple chemistry. Just like base solutions do not react with steel - simple. Proven chemistry. What destroys injectors is good ole h20 via cavitation.
 

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Okay, with all due respect, your information is compete BS.

It's completely false - DO WORRY about tainted oil.

And an injector replacement (all 8) runs 2,900.00 ... I know because I've been through it twice. Both times test showed caustic in my fuel... That was from an independant lab. Also both times, swamps diesel injector experts showed that a caustic was the culprit. Also both times there was no soap present in my oil, just clean looking oil with no way to test it without a lab and chem degree.

Also titration will not show caustic.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
NaOH could certainly be in sloppily processed fuel as said fuel sample will contain H20. But alkaline solutions cannot destroy steel, it's a simple fact. Injectors are destroyed by cavitation caused by water in fuel not alkaline etching, now if you had, for example sulfuric acid in your fuel THEN we're cookin' with gas - kiss your injectors buh-bye.

Unless the damaged injectors are looked at under a microscope by a qualified professional - of who there are few - the diagnosis cannot be made.

NaOH is hydrophilic (attracted to h2o) simple fact. Alkaline solutions cannot etch steel - simple fact. This is not theory. I trust millions of chemists and metallurgists and hundreds of years of testing. It's fact. It's incontrovertible, not open to question or dispute.

The information is out there - it's not snake oil it's proven fact.

Those who choose to ignore the established tenets of Chemistry and Metallurgy can scream into the wind all they want.

p.s. titration of WVO that normally titrates higher than it's current value can be one of very few things a) the oil is less used and therefore cleaner than the last time or b) has had a base added to it (e.g. NaOH) that has lowered it's acidity.
 

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either way for those who are interested most food vendors at the fair throw out their oil weekly for a number of reasons but mostly 1) taste... your business is dependant on your product and 2) how do you travel to the next fair with a fryer full of hot oil? ive literely seen hundreds of gallons of oil left on the faifgrounds to waste and contenplated using it myself...
 

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NaOH could certainly be in sloppily processed fuel as said fuel sample will contain H20. But alkaline solutions cannot destroy steel, it's a simple fact. Injectors are destroyed by cavitation not alkaline etching.

Unless the damaged injectors are looked at under a microscope by a qualified professional - of who there are few - the diagnosis cannot be made.

NaOH is hydrophilic (attracted to h2o) simple fact. Alkaline solutions cannot etch steel - simple fact. This is not theory. I trust millions of chemists and metallurgists and hundreds of years of testing. It's fact. It's incontrovertible, not open to question or dispute.

The information is out there - it's not snake oil it's proven fact.

Those who choose to ignore the established tenets of Chemistry and Metallurgy can scream into the wind all they want.

p.s. titration of WVO that normally titrates higher than it's current value can be one of very few things a) the oil is less used and therefore cleaner than the last time or b) has had a base added to it (e.g. NaOH) that has lowered it's acidity.
First off these injectors are not steel. They are however a mixture of I belive platinum and zinc. If you do some research or google "sodium hydroxide reaction to platinum", the first thing you may find will say something like "the reaction to these metals is very fast and destructive".

Your entire argument is without merit.... Just your words with nothing to back it. Sorry, I brought first hand experience. Call up Johnathan at Swamps and have a chat with him, all he needs is a micrometer to see the injector has been "etched" I think were his exact words. He's been custom building injectors longer than you been shaving I'm willing to bet. :nod:
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
The good folks over at Mid Western Fuel Injection and Alliant Power have both verified that the injector bodies on both the 7.3l PSD and 6.0l PSD are made out of steel, most likely 60/40. But since they are made by Caterpillar it is impossible to get exact specs about the type of steel because of proprietary information safeguards.

"Everyone who builds injectors performance or otherwise purchases the bodies from folks like Cat and Bosch and have absolutely no idea what they are made of. I even have a hard time getting hard facts on some things from them and I'm one of their biggest US customers." - unnamed source at Alliant Power

The claim that zinc is used in injector bodies is questionable at best because zinc is known to react with good ole' diesel fuel.

Platinum is selling for $1239.00 per ounce at the time of this writing Platinum Price per Ounce making it a higly unlikely candidate to be used in sub-$300.00 injectors.

Unless someone is casting their own injector bodies there is no way for them to know the composition thereof.

The issue is moot though, because unless you've been sloppy with your dewatering and oil processing no NaOH is ever going to touch your injectors.

And once again:

Alkalines cannot and do not etch steel. Acids do.
 
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