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Discussion Starter #1
So, it appears dispute the reputation the stock 5R110 converter has for being pretty reliable even under extreme tuning and all, I've smoked mine...probably from not changing the fluid, don't take advice from green service techs.

So, I hear a lot about bts-brians truck shop. They apparently use precision industries converters and seem to be well respected on the diesel forums. I've heard good things about suncoast too, but I haven't heard much about ATS. They are big on the GM forums, but rarely awe them mentioned here. They seem to make a good product, 5 year 500k mile warranty even for race applications. I'm basically looking for anyone's actual experience with any of these, have you seen them, side by side even? Better yet have you run one or two of them? They're all about the same cost, I don't mind spending the money if I only have to do it once. Thanks for you're input.

Oh, and truck should be around 500 at the rear wheels, but I don't intend on going any further with it. Used for daily driving, the occasional run against a mustang or camaro, and I tow occasionally. Thanks.
 

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A buddy of mine had MANY problems with his ATS replacement and had a ton of issues in getting them to honor their warranty. Granted, this was several years ago, so draw your own conclusion.
 

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I had good luck with the suncoast converter that was in my truck from 2008 up until last spring. Some people don't like suncoast but I have no problem with them. Precision Industries converters are very good as well. If your tranny is fine, I would just do the converter at your power level.
 

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Yea I haven't heard anything really but bad stuff about ATS (emphasis on heard/read). Either way though, I have heard good things about both PI and SunCoast TCs. I think those are solid bets. Another one that seems decent too is DPC. I like PI because they don't have a stupid core charge to mess with.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Cool. I just got off the phone with ATS, seemed knowledgeable, sounds like a good product, but who know. I'll call PI next. They say they use forged not billet stuff, forged being stronger yet. I'm sure they're all better than stock...as long as yo change your fluid.
 

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Take it for what it's worth, but my bro-in-law is on his 8th fully built ATS in a year. Yea you read that right. He had them put the first one in Valentines day last year and its at a transmission shop as we speak getting the 8th one put in! This is in a 6.7 Cummins with a 66mm turbo and stock injectors. So the power level isn't above what ATS claims it should handle. On the bright side, they have stood behind it and sent him a brand new tranny every time.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
A buddy of mine had MANY problems with his ATS replacement and had a ton of issues in getting them to honor their warranty. Granted, this was several years ago, so draw your own conclusion.
Do you know what kind of issues? I really like the way theirs sounds on paper, good write up about em online, but it all really boils down to marketing.

I haven't read anything bad about precision industry's yet. Waiting on bts to give me a call back about them.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Take it for what it's worth, but my bro-in-law is on his 8th fully built ATS in a year. Yea you read that right. He had them put the first one in Valentines day last year and its at a transmission shop as we speak getting the 8th one put in! This is in a 6.7 Cummins with a 66mm turbo and stock injectors. So the power level isn't above what ATS claims it should handle. On the bright side, they have stood behind it and sent him a brand new tranny every time.
Wow, seems like there's another problem there. I'm surprised they haven't just given him his money back at this point. Eons ago when I worked at advance auto, we'd get people that would continually bring us starter after starer or alternator after alternator and eventually we'd tell em to hit the road with a refund. Some of that might be due to crappy remain components, some was definitely because of other issues they had with their cars. At least ATS honors it. To their credit I called and immediately spoke with a guy who seemed very knowledgable. No recordings no transfers, no push 1 for English. That's a plus.

IIRC, BTS does not use Billet internals either.
Bts uses pi, who as mentioned earlier doesn't use billet, they use forged...still waiting on a call back to talk more about it with em.


There's also twisted diesel, very local to me, I literally drive by em everyday, supposedly they build a bad *** torqshift...but to be honest, I have a hard time trusting them...too many horror stories.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Precision industries finally emailed me back. They said their front cover (the part facing the flywheel) is billet steel, and uses 3 friction discs. There's is 1200 bucks, and to my knowledge doesn't involve a core charge. The ATS torque converter is 1350 plus shipping and a 400 dollar core charge. I've got another tc off a core engine, so I'm not too worried about the core charge, or the 150 dollar price difference. I'd say its down to these two converters...either the ATS five star, or the precision industries stallion.

They both come with 5 year warranty, both have billet front covers, the ATS has 5 clutch discs and he said was supposedly rated at 2400 ftlbs...the pi stallion has 3 discs. The ATS to me sounds like the best one on the market...but again that's reading the marketing, and talking with a salesman who obviously wants my money, lol...but it sounds like they've totally re-engineered the tc at ATS. Redesigned CNC stator...supposed to redirect fluid much more efficiently...key word - supposed to. Only thing reused is the impeller and rear cover. I'm leaning towards ATS, but that's because I've heard more about that one, hadn't got to speak to anyone at pi yet and really dive into what makes it great. Just thought I'd share my findings thus far.
 

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I'd go with any 3 but everyone swears by Brian. So when I do my transmission over again ill go to ats or bts
 

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If BTS uses PI that's all I need to know when choosing a new TC. Aside from that BTS will get my money for a built trans. Plenty of good names out there for a built trans.
 

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Do you know what kind of issues? I really like the way theirs sounds on paper, good write up about em online, but it all really boils down to marketing.

I haven't read anything bad about precision industry's yet. Waiting on bts to give me a call back about them.
He had problems almost from the beginning and they didn't want to do anything to fix the problem. Here's a post from 2007 (his name is Brett and he went by AMMO22). Last I heard, he ended up getting a 12V Cummins and (I think) sold his SD. :(

LINK
 

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dude PI all the way. them and DPC are the only ones known to hold up. way to many bad stories about ats! if everyone on here is saying PI and you want ats then get a ats but we all know whats better and whats proven! all the big builders in the industry that know what they are doing will tell you either PI or DPC
 

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I had may transmission built by Paul's transmission in Altanta, he used a DPC converter, so far I love the tranny and the converter. All DPC converter are custom built by Phill, and are known to handle the biggest powe on the 6.0 powerstroke. Pricing is right in line if not less that the PI, ATS or Suncoast.:icon_ford:
 

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PATC billet converter would be another consideration in my search. Phil reuses cases where PI is all new parts. I would lean towards PI. No way I'd put an ATS or Suncoast in my truck.
 

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PATC billet converter would be another consideration in my search. Phil reuses cases where PI is all new parts. I would lean towards PI. No way I'd put an ATS or Suncoast in my truck.

oof! You didnt just recommend PATC did you!? Ouch Mitch!

Precision industries finally emailed me back. They said their front cover (the part facing the flywheel) is billet steel, and uses 3 friction discs. There's is 1200 bucks, and to my knowledge doesn't involve a core charge. The ATS torque converter is 1350 plus shipping and a 400 dollar core charge. I've got another tc off a core engine, so I'm not too worried about the core charge, or the 150 dollar price difference. I'd say its down to these two converters...either the ATS five star, or the precision industries stallion.

They both come with 5 year warranty, both have billet front covers, the ATS has 5 clutch discs and he said was supposedly rated at 2400 ftlbs...the pi stallion has 3 discs. The ATS to me sounds like the best one on the market...but again that's reading the marketing, and talking with a salesman who obviously wants my money, lol...but it sounds like they've totally re-engineered the tc at ATS. Redesigned CNC stator...supposed to redirect fluid much more efficiently...key word - supposed to. Only thing reused is the impeller and rear cover. I'm leaning towards ATS, but that's because I've heard more about that one, hadn't got to speak to anyone at pi yet and really dive into what makes it great. Just thought I'd share my findings thus far.
Okay, i see info in here that says ATS is feeding you BS, and totally throws the saying they have a wealth of knowledge, out the window. Along with it completely is just trying to tell someone who doesn't know what is in their stuff just to sell a product. Them saying they have a 5 friction disc converter is a joke, that is not true. There are not 5 frictions in any of their converters, i've seen a few apart that were "tripple disc. After seeing what their converters looked like in the past (machined stock parts) I would never even think about using their parts. Tripple disc means they have 3 frictions, not just adding up the number of frictions and steels which seems like what ats is doing.

Stick with a bts/rcd (precision built) or an off the shelf precision that uses the stock stator. Depending what charger you are using i'd stick with a lower stall or a stock stall for vgt chargers.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Huge multi quote here so bear with me.

dude PI all the way. them and DPC are the only ones known to hold up. way to many bad stories about ats! if everyone on here is saying PI and you want ats then get a ats but we all know whats better and whats proven! all the big builders in the industry that know what they are doing will tell you either PI or DPC
Yeah after reading the ATS shiny website and talking with what seemed like a knowledgeable salesman I felt OK with them, but I kept thinking about something he said. I told em about the, tc clutch not engaging properly, that obviously pointed to the tc itself. The other issue I mentioned was the delayed p-r and p-d engagement. He told me this could also be the tc, but the more I think about it the less I think that's true...especially after talking to PI finally, who said that's BS. To top that off...I called back and spoke with someone else at ATS who was a waste of time...told me how the tc was a huge weak point of the 5r100...which isn't correct its 5r110, but anyway everyone I've spoken with says the stock unit is OK when maintained well. That was 20 minutes I'll never get back speaking with ATS. Now my PI conversation went great. I'll go with them for sure.

He had problems almost from the beginning and they didn't want to do anything to fix the problem. Here's a post from 2007 (his name is Brett and he went by AMMO22). Last I heard, he ended up getting a 12V Cummins and (I think) sold his SD. :(

LINK
Wow, that sucks.

I had may transmission built by Paul's transmission in Altanta, he used a DPC converter, so far I love the tranny and the converter. All DPC converter are custom built by Phill, and are known to handle the biggest powe on the 6.0 powerstroke. Pricing is right in line if not less that the PI, ATS or Suncoast.:icon_ford:
I might look into them tomorrow, I feel pretty good with PI now. Ever get those heads installed? I'm eager to see how that works out for you. I think they'll work well for you.

PATC billet converter would be another consideration in my search. Phil reuses cases where PI is all new parts. I would lean towards PI. No way I'd put an ATS or Suncoast in my truck.
Yeah, no core charge, I asked em about that and that's what they said as well. Said they've got signs hanging in their shop all over that say better to do it right the first time than have to do it twice. He said they don't push their employees for quotas or anything, he stressed to me how important it is to make customers happy, even said you can get a free 'freshen up' in the first 2 years, like if something else happened to go wrong in the trans and you wanted the tc looked over.

oof! You didnt just recommend PATC did you!? Ouch Mitch!



Okay, i see info in here that says ATS is feeding you BS, and totally throws the saying they have a wealth of knowledge, out the window. Along with it completely is just trying to tell someone who doesn't know what is in their stuff just to sell a product. Them saying they have a 5 friction disc converter is a joke, that is not true. There are not 5 frictions in any of their converters, i've seen a few apart that were "tripple disc. After seeing what their converters looked like in the past (machined stock parts) I would never even think about using their parts. Tripple disc means they have 3 frictions, not just adding up the number of frictions and steels which seems like what ats is doing.

Stick with a bts/rcd (precision built) or an off the shelf precision that uses the stock stator. Depending what charger you are using i'd stick with a lower stall or a stock stall for vgt chargers.
Yeah, I get that impression from them now, the first salesman I spoke with almost had me, except for what I mentioned earlier about the delayed reverse engagement being caused by the tc. He just wanted to sell me a converter.

I'm actually glad you chimmed in Greg, you got any insight on the delayed reverse engagement situation? I just changed direct drive solenoid and tcc solenoid.

Also, you said a bts (who uses precision) or off the shelf precision...I kinda take that to mean that bts specs the precision industries Tc to their own specs? I still need to talk with brian, but I had a very good conv with the dude at PI. Im kinda pissed at ATS now, even more so at the fact they almost had me won over. I'm glad I called back to talk with a different guy...cuz he told me way different stuff than the first guy. Kinda gave me the impression of telling me what he thought I wanted to hear.

And yeah I'm looking for stock or slightly lower stall. I'm not making a drag truck...honestly it'll see the beach and mountain trails more than the track, way more. Not to mention towing and just general street use.

Thanks so much for everyone's input. That's why these forums are great, gathering a good consensus on what has and hasn't worked out...almost like I've read that somewhere...
 

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oof! You didnt just recommend PATC did you!? Ouch Mitch!
Ok Greg, this is the second time I've heard a snide comment from you with respect to PATC converters and you have yet again failed to provide any useful input as to why you hold the opinion you do?? :poke:

I know Jesse Warren has been running a PATC converter in his pulling truck for a year of sled pulling at nearly 800rwhp and it is still going strong. Now he is switching it out to try a PI but says that he has no issue with them at all and there is nothing harder on a transmission and TC than sled pulling.

In my opinion, very few guys run more than one converter. If whatever they chose the first time works, then it's the greatest thing out there and if it doesn't then they wouldn't run it if it was given to them. Very Very few people try different brands of TCs to see which one actually works best for them or if there is something else they might like better.
 

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glad you made the right choice! some people get on here and we tell them the best and then they end up saying well i went the route i was thinking anyways. smart choice!

the reverse situtation can be caused either by a faulty plug in the soleniod body or it could be the tranny on its way out. apparently there is a plug that is close to the dd soleniod somewhere and its plastic. what happens is the heat cycles warp the plug over time and it will go to leaking and it takes it a min for the pressure to build up. ford has a updated plug for this but not many people know about it. now this is just what i was told from a tranny builder around here but i havent confirmed that with andy because im just so stinkin happy with his tranny that he built that i dont care to ask questions anymore haha
 
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