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I am thinking about buying an '08 F350 with 189,600 miles on it for $18,000. I am wondering whether this is a good idea... Had my '06 F350 engine fail 8 months after buying it so I want to be cautious about this purchase and get some advice.

Features on '08 F350:
-6" engineered lift (done at 125,000 mi)
-King shocks and fox racing shocks in rear with air bags
-Head gasket and studs done at 155,000 mi (ARP Studded heads)
-Egr/dpf delete (emissions system removed)
-h+s mini maxx tuner
-Upgraded coolant system
-New fuel lines
-New front end ball joints
-New 37" tires
-Fuel Rims
-Entire under carriage coated
-Entire truck painted in rock guard with coat of paint to seal.
-Custom straight pipe exhaust

This thing looks mint. No rust whatsoever. Runs smooth and sounds great.

I am pretty concerned about the mileage and the reliability issues with 6.4L engines... Anyone out there getting over 300,000 mi on these trucks with all the reliability improvements listed? Do you think its a good idea?
 

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Fuel it up again Dummy
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It takes deep pockets for being a 6.4 owner.

That truck can blow chunks at the drop of a hat. Me I would not under any circumstance buy a 6.4 truck.

They have a awful engine and they are very rarely EVER rebuildable. My gut feeling would be the guy selling knows more then he's leading on. There is a time to stick around and a time to run.

RUN don't even look over your shoulder to make sure its not trying to catch you. NOPE

Now of coarse that all is coming from a 6.0 owner. That has well over $10,000 into my engine, that said I have no doubts that it will be going around 500,000 miles.
That 6.4 your looking at will be in the BONE YARD looooooong before that.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah, that's what I'm worried about. We will be taking it to a mechanic before making any commitments...

Had an '06 F350 6.0L and ended up having to drop a new engine in it within 8 months of purchasing it at a cost of over $7000... The flex plate broke and there was way too much end play on the crank shaft. That is what I'm trying to avoid. I guess I just figure with all of those upgrades and meticulous maintenance this guy has babied the truck and done everything he can to make the engine as reliable as possible.
 

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Fuel it up again Dummy
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Its tuned so in my book all bets are off. The thing about those 6.4 engines is that they can shlt their pants at absolutely any time. Just tooling along with the worlds biggest smile on your face and it grumbles a little and spits a piston top through the turbo.

I understand being smitten by a 4x4 truck and the draw it can have. But man oh man these things are home wreckers and I'm not kidding. There are thousands of these 6.4 trucks in junk yards across the country from owners giving them to the banks because of a loan balance of say $15,000 and truck needs a new engine to the tune of $12-$18,000.
Its much much more common then you can imagine.

I would be pretty cautious.

The 6.0 of yours loosing a crankshaft is very rare. Bottom ends are very strong in them. But anything can happen.
 

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I've read horror stories about the 6.0L's on here though, I keep reading about all of the problems those engines have so I'm pretty scared off of buying one of those, especially after what happened to mine... It seems like half of the people on here think the 6.4's are better (IF tuned and deleted) and the other half think they have the same amount of problems as the 6.0L's.. You might be the first person I've come across who advocates for a 6.0 over a 6.4! Maybe it's all just hit or miss and I should shell out more money for a 6.7?

I also wonder whether a truck with that high of mileage and many of the big ticket items taken care of (head gasket/studs, radiator upgrade, deletes) - maybe it has already encountered most of the problems it will? Maybe that's wishful thinking though. I don't want to repeat the same mistakes I made with my 6.0. I don't think I've ever seen a better looking truck - definitely smitten...
 

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Fuel it up again Dummy
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I've read horror stories about the 6.0L's on here though, I keep reading about all of the problems those engines have so I'm pretty scared off of buying one of those, especially after what happened to mine... It seems like half of the people on here think the 6.4's are better (IF tuned and deleted) and the other half think they have the same amount of problems as the 6.0L's.. You might be the first person I've come across who advocates for a 6.0 over a 6.4! Maybe it's all just hit or miss and I should shell out more money for a 6.7?

I also wonder whether a truck with that high of mileage and many of the big ticket items taken care of (head gasket/studs, radiator upgrade, deletes) - maybe it has already encountered most of the problems it will? Maybe that's wishful thinking though. I don't want to repeat the same mistakes I made with my 6.0. I don't think I've ever seen a better looking truck - definitely smitten...
Kingle, I must say that you don't get out much do you.

Ok for starters the 6.4 forum here does not have the traffic anywhere close to the 6.0 forum. So this is going to get very little traffic because there are not a lot of guys that love their 6.4 trucks like your going to find the 6.0 owners do. The 6.0 engine is three times the engine that the 6.4 could ever be.
First off the 6.4 uses the same block and cylinder heads with a few modifications for making the old engine work. The crankshaft stroke was increased to give it the larger displacement. Problem they have with that is the block cannot handle the larger stroke and even tho its a bedplate design they are twisted to a point where the 6.4 crankshafts break rod journal break main caps and is a large factor why the 6.4 is never rebuild-able even with often less then 150,000 miles on them

They increased the head bolt diameter with the attempt to keep the head gaskets from failing. But the 6.4 head gaskets fail close to the rate that the 6.0 endured.
Then you have the high lift camshaft cut that has abrupt duration and lift that exceeds the roller lifters abilities and camshaft failures are three times higher with a 6.4.

The 6.4 came out with the first generation high pressure fuel pumps to replace the HEIU injection system used with the 6.0. The 6.0 suffered high pressure oil leaks with its HEIU systems when Ford went from the smooth swash plate style pumps to the 4 cylinder piston operated high pressure pumps which are very violent with pulse waves of pressure in the HEIU high pressure oil plumbing. Wavy rail designs were used but until the Teflon disk was used with the O-rings the 6.0 had hot no start issues.

With the 6.4 Navistar wanted to have its own high pressure fuel pump that could make 24,000 psi on its own along with simple on off injectors. Problem with these pumps were the problems with learning what will leak and not leak. Yea the Bosch pumps leak like a siv as well as the plumbing that goes to each bank to the injectors.
The 6.4 is famous for magically making its own oil. Yea look it up.
Then we move to the new DPF that Navistar figured using diesel fuel for burning the screens clean was the best option. The process make extreme heat which is addressed by using the cooling system from the engine. This is what destroys the radiators in the 6.4 as well as raising 7-8 cylinder temps and also pushes excess fuel into the crankcase during the regeneration process.

There's more then what I have going on here. Just let me assure you that the statement of yours that I am the only one you have ever seen that choses the 6.0 over the 6.4 tells me how lost you really are with the issues between these engines. The proof is in the pudding and its very well known today that the 6.0 with ARP studs and O-ringed heads that has all of the Ford updated high pressure oil systems parts in them is a 500,000 mile engine.
Where the 6.4 engine has really only one chance and that is deleting the DPF system completely along with the emission equipment. From that point you hope your lucky because the camshafts still are a problem along with making its own oil from diesel from the fuel pump.
Then if you have water in the fuel on the 6.4 it will destroy the high pressure fuel pump in a blink of the eye. Considering its a $5,000 pump its going to hurt.

Then you still have compound turbo issues and then all of the pistons that crack in the 6.4 regardless whether its tuned or not.
Tuning will break the pistons much faster because of the HP the engine can make. Well known for broken cylinders too.
I am serious do your diligent research and get this smitten problem under control to where it wont sway your judgement. Read up on all of the comparisons between the 6.4 and 6.0 from current information.
Then if your confident on your final opinion then pull the trigger.



There are Powerstroke shops out there today that will do a bullet proofing on the 6.0 engines that use ARP studs with O-Ringed cylinder heads and all the Ford updated parts and they come with lifetime head gasket warranties. The engines are deemed 500,000 mile engines that bring the 6.0 into the reliability class of the 7.3.

The 6.4 does not get any warranty issues of the sort and the repair process used with the 6.4 is pulling the engine and dumping it into the trash and replacing with a new engine because its is almost always the only option.

This is a little all over the place but the truth of the matter is accurate. I suggest you make another thread and post it in the 6.0 and 6.7 forums. Then see what your responses are.

I do wish you all the best and my angle is to just make sure you are aware of what is going on with the 6.4 very often. Yes there are some 6.4 that have beat the odds and have done very well. But its not common, not one bit.
So I wish you luck and hope you get a good truck regardless of the engine you choose.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well thanks for all the information. I think you just convinced me to fork out some more cash for a 6.7 that is still under warranty.
 

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The aftermarket support for a 03-07 6.0L is incredible. I?ve owned three and the first one was a tough learning experience. I?d never hesitate to buy another one.

The 6.4L is a powerhouse but a throwaway engine. Most have issues that simply can?t be repaired. Most 6.0l only need a few grand and they?re ready for another 200k no problem.

I have no problem saying the 6.0l was rough in the beginning but MANY shops quickly learned to repair once and be done.

The 6.4l was only made from 08-10 and yes with just a tuner and exhaust/intake is a powerhouse it?s still a THROWAWAY engine in the end... stick with a 6.0 and a mechanic who actually understands the engine and you will be fine. Or.... look into a 2014+ 6.7l and enjoy the vast improvemnts
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The 6.4l was only made from 08-10 and yes with just a tuner and exhaust/intake is a powerhouse it?s still a THROWAWAY engine in the end... stick with a 6.0 and a mechanic who actually understands the engine and you will be fine. Or.... look into a 2014+ 6.7l and enjoy the vast improvemnts
Hard to stick with a 6.0 when mine bit the dust after putting less than 8,000km on it (hard to say what the engine actually had at that point, we think we were a victim of odometer fraud there - long story). All in I spent over $10,000 on that engine. It actually got stolen, recovered and written off about a month back so we're getting most of that money back and are hoping to invest it in something that will last. Got very lucky on the insurance valuation despite our mountain of bad luck when it comes to trucks. But I don't want to relive the stress of dropping a new engine into something I still owe money on.

Why do you say 2014+? Are there problems with the 2011-2013 6.7L's too?
 

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Fuel it up again Dummy
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The 2011 have a few issues with injectors and it was the very first year for the engine. I would do 2012 up without any worries.

Ford has the 6.7 nailed down and considering that they are much more complex than a 6.0 they are solid. Even the emissions equipment just keeps on going.

The 2017 is a first year for model change and most wont buy the first model year of any new design. Ford sold gads of those trucks and the 6.7 reliability carried a lot of weight there.

Yea they are good machines.
 

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Every time I read these 6.4 bashing’s I hold my head in shame and quit spending money on improvements. I feel I should get restitution of around 10,000 from Ford. Ha ha.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Every time I read these 6.4 bashing’s I hold my head in shame and quit spending money on improvements. I feel I should get restitution of around 10,000 from Ford. Ha ha.
What particular things failed on your 6.4? And what's the mileage?

I'm just kind of holding onto hope that with all the deletes, the tuner, upgraded radiator and regular maintenance that maybe we will be okay with the truck we are looking at. But I don't want to end up putting a new engine in like I had to with my 6.0L. There's just no winning there and it wouldn't be worth the risk. Hoping the mechanic will give us an honest opinion on the 6.4 we're looking at, and in the meantime while I wait for my cheque (my 6.0L was stolen, recovered and written off) I'll keep an eye open for a newer 6.7.
 

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I?m not bashing the 6.4l. It?s just plain and and simple facts. They were not the best Diesel engine made and a FEW had some really good runs with them, but it was only made from 08-10 to begin with, and has a worse reputation then the early 6.0l. If I?m going to spend hard earned cash or take a loan for 4+ years it would be for a 2014+ 6.7L. They had a vast amount of quirks worked out.

If you don?t need something with every bell n whistle in the auto books a previously and well done bulletproofed 6.0L is MUCH simpler starting platform for a daily driver and tow vehicle.

The only reason I got rid of my 6.0l was a career change put me in a lower pay bracket for a bit and the maintenance cost and fuel economy of my 7.3l was more practical until a few promotions and then it just kind of grew on me so I kept it lol
 

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I bought a 08 6.4 with 320,000 miles in January or 2013. I got rid of it in October of 2015 with almost 360,000 miles. I had no issues with it. The 320,000 miles were all highway. The hours / miles averaged out to 56 mph or something like that.
 

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People are entitled to their opinions. Common rail power is easier to create and makes towing so much nicer. My wife's 6.4 tows so much better than my 6.0. I have experienced SO MANY issues with my 6.0 before I could finally trust it. You can see all the stuff in my signature... In addition, it's had 2 sets of head gaskets, FICMs, 4 EGR coolers, 3 oil coolers, STC fittings, dummy plugs, injectors, etc, etc. LOTS of money and time/labor.

I have had 0 issues with my wife's 6.4 in the 2 years that I have owned it and it has 260k miles on it... (It's on it's second engine since the first engine sucked a valve around 120k miles, but that was before I bought the truck.)

All trucks will have problems and you'll have people with opinions on both sides typically aligned to their choice of truck and engines. It's best to get information to make an informed decision, but be aware that most people only post up on forums when they are having problems.
 
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My only problems were an ebp and a rad hose leak over 8.5 yrs and 197 k miles. Then a hpfp failure and so then I replaced the whole fuel system and the top of motor, water pump exhaust, all of that. Still on # one rad 201244 I haven’t put 5,000 on it since haven’t it done. Runs like a clock. I’m hoping to get it to 300k
 

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Discussion Starter #17
So I found this cheaper 6.0L, 2005 with 141k mi on it for $14k. I like the price and mileage better, that's for sure.

Pretty much has all of the upgrades you can dream up:

ARP Head studs
EGR / DPF Delete
Full exhaust system upgrade
Head gaskets replaced
Upgraded Turbo
All 8 injectors upgraded hi-output
FICM replaced
Upgraded transmission
Brakes all new
Ball joints tie-rods done recently
Nitto 37" A/T Tires 20" dished & offset black rims
Aftermarket Intake, exhaust
Edge Juice attitude tuner
Tuned ECU

Does this seem like something that should last well into 300k miles? Am I seriously considering a 6.0L again after what happened to mine?! :|

With all the money I'd save getting this instead, I could afford to paint it and seal the undercarriage and it would almost look the same as the 6.4 I was looking at.. Thoughts?
 

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It is What IT is
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Kingle, I must say that you don't get out much do you.

Ok for starters the 6.4 forum here does not have the traffic anywhere close to the 6.0 forum. So this is going to get very little traffic because there are not a lot of guys that love their 6.4 trucks like your going to find the 6.0 owners do. The 6.0 engine is three times the engine that the 6.4 could ever be.
First off the 6.4 uses the same block and cylinder heads with a few modifications for making the old engine work. The crankshaft stroke was increased to give it the larger displacement. Problem they have with that is the block cannot handle the larger stroke and even tho its a bedplate design they are twisted to a point where the 6.4 crankshafts break rod journal break main caps and is a large factor why the 6.4 is never rebuild-able even with often less then 150,000 miles on them

They increased the head bolt diameter with the attempt to keep the head gaskets from failing. But the 6.4 head gaskets fail close to the rate that the 6.0 endured.
Then you have the high lift camshaft cut that has abrupt duration and lift that exceeds the roller lifters abilities and camshaft failures are three times higher with a 6.4.

The 6.4 came out with the first generation high pressure fuel pumps to replace the HEIU injection system used with the 6.0. The 6.0 suffered high pressure oil leaks with its HEIU systems when Ford went from the smooth swash plate style pumps to the 4 cylinder piston operated high pressure pumps which are very violent with pulse waves of pressure in the HEIU high pressure oil plumbing. Wavy rail designs were used but until the Teflon disk was used with the O-rings the 6.0 had hot no start issues.

With the 6.4 Navistar wanted to have its own high pressure fuel pump that could make 24,000 psi on its own along with simple on off injectors. Problem with these pumps were the problems with learning what will leak and not leak. Yea the Bosch pumps leak like a siv as well as the plumbing that goes to each bank to the injectors.
The 6.4 is famous for magically making its own oil. Yea look it up.
Then we move to the new DPF that Navistar figured using diesel fuel for burning the screens clean was the best option. The process make extreme heat which is addressed by using the cooling system from the engine. This is what destroys the radiators in the 6.4 as well as raising 7-8 cylinder temps and also pushes excess fuel into the crankcase during the regeneration process.

There's more then what I have going on here. Just let me assure you that the statement of yours that I am the only one you have ever seen that choses the 6.0 over the 6.4 tells me how lost you really are with the issues between these engines. The proof is in the pudding and its very well known today that the 6.0 with ARP studs and O-ringed heads that has all of the Ford updated high pressure oil systems parts in them is a 500,000 mile engine.
Where the 6.4 engine has really only one chance and that is deleting the DPF system completely along with the emission equipment. From that point you hope your lucky because the camshafts still are a problem along with making its own oil from diesel from the fuel pump.
Then if you have water in the fuel on the 6.4 it will destroy the high pressure fuel pump in a blink of the eye. Considering its a $5,000 pump its going to hurt.

Then you still have compound turbo issues and then all of the pistons that crack in the 6.4 regardless whether its tuned or not.
Tuning will break the pistons much faster because of the HP the engine can make. Well known for broken cylinders too.
I am serious do your diligent research and get this smitten problem under control to where it wont sway your judgement. Read up on all of the comparisons between the 6.4 and 6.0 from current information.
Then if your confident on your final opinion then pull the trigger.



There are Powerstroke shops out there today that will do a bullet proofing on the 6.0 engines that use ARP studs with O-Ringed cylinder heads and all the Ford updated parts and they come with lifetime head gasket warranties. The engines are deemed 500,000 mile engines that bring the 6.0 into the reliability class of the 7.3.

The 6.4 does not get any warranty issues of the sort and the repair process used with the 6.4 is pulling the engine and dumping it into the trash and replacing with a new engine because its is almost always the only option.

This is a little all over the place but the truth of the matter is accurate. I suggest you make another thread and post it in the 6.0 and 6.7 forums. Then see what your responses are.

I do wish you all the best and my angle is to just make sure you are aware of what is going on with the 6.4 very often. Yes there are some 6.4 that have beat the odds and have done very well. But its not common, not one bit.
So I wish you luck and hope you get a good truck regardless of the engine you choose.
mic drop....


I think @mhatlen is dead on here @kingle. I've owned two 6.0s. My first one had some issues with injectors because it was misdiagnosed by stealership and I didn't know Jack about the 6.0. After it was fixed (long story) it ran better than any vehicle I've ever owned. I rolled it three years ago on my way to Fairbanks towing a trailer.

I bought another 6.0. A local '07 KR with 106k on the clock. it's been flawless. I put bigger injectors on it. tires, brakes but that's normal maintenance. I've got almost 151k on it. it's better that a swiss clock.

With that being said. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another 6.0. I know the engine and I know what to look for. Is that a guarantee? absolutely not. But I'm educated on the 6. I can listen to mine and determine if it's running right.
Plus you can buy those for much less than a 6.7. And you can customize it the way you want.
Will it have all the bells and whistles that a 6.7 has? no. But I'm not going to take my $60k rig hunting. Not happening. My 6.0 has dings and scratches. It's ok.
Anytime you won a diesel truck, you MUST have some $$ on the side for repairs and maintenance. Hell, an oil change is three times what my son's F150 costs.......

Go test drive that 6.0. Put a monitor on it, romp on it. Drive it several times. early in morning (so you get to start it cold) watch the numbers, pay attention and if it all checks out make an offer for much less.
The dealer I bought mine from wanted $30k for it three years ago. I bought it for $18500. Save a bunch of money and I didn't have to call Geico. :hehe:
 

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Go test drive that 6.0. Put a monitor on it, romp on it. Drive it several times. early in morning (so you get to start it cold) watch the numbers, pay attention and if it all checks out make an offer for much less.
The dealer I bought mine from wanted $30k for it three years ago. I bought it for $18500. Save a bunch of money and I didn't have to call Geico. :hehe:
Quite the bargainer! I'm hoping we can get it for a couple grand less but we will see. Do you mean watch the numbers on the tuner? I'm pretty new to the diesel world so I wouldn't really know what to look for. Any tips?
 
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