[CharlieC]

I posted this a little while back over at the infopop forum, but it doesn't seem like many folks read that. Thought this might be useful. I'd also love to hear any thoughts on the questions in here. Thanks!

Hi folks,

Well, I have hit one year and nearly 30k SVO miles on my '96 7.3 Powerstroke conversion and I thought it was time for an update. I've learned SO MUCH in the past year!

Last October, I purchased a '96 F-250 7.3 with two stock fuel tanks. The truck had 160,000 miles on it. The truck was a steal...and then wasn't. Within a few weeks the transmission and mechanical fuel pump went out. Doh! That E-40D is EXPENSIVE to have rebuilt and I kick myself for not sticking to my own rule of insisting on a manual transmission vehicle. Live and learn.

For my kit, I purchased a Goldenfuel kit with their 60 gallon Trekker tank. That kit included the 60 gallon tank (poly with an aluminum heat exchanger in it), racor 1000 heated filter, hot fox pickup for the stock tank conversion, 3b hose (their name for hose on hose wrapped in sheath--great stuff), accessory fuel pump for the veg side, 6 way pollack valve, wiring, vacuum gauge, fuel gauge for the 60 gallon tank, and instructions.

To that kit, I added a second Racor filter, veg-therm mega, and a temp gauge for the oil.

I installed the kit with a friend who had done several conversions and is a mechanical whiz. There is no way I could have done this myself and would not recommend undertaking a project like this without significant mechanical know-how. However, over the 3 days that we spent installing the kit, I got a crash course in diesel mechanics. With a lot of flailing, and tons of help, I have been able to successfully troubleshoot and maintain the system.

Notes on installation:
Everything was actually pretty straightforward (as long as you know what you are doing and what is what under the hood) except for retrofitting the stock tank. It is a HUGE PAIN to drop that tank, install the hotfox, and get the tank reinstalled. This was by far the most time consuming part of the process.

Charlie at Goldenfuels was helpful both during the installation process and in helping me through the various problems that came up during the months afterward.

What did not work:
The little accessory pump that I got crapped out in less than six months and only came with a 90 day wararnty from Goldenfuel. They suggested a raptor pump. It was quite expensive, but I have had zero problems since then.

For the second Racor 1000 (I'll explain below), I bought it separately. Turns out the thermostats that Racor installs are setup for an anti-gel function, and turn the heater off at a low temp (I don't know exactly what). Goldenfuel was great and installed their thermostats on the heater for me. This was a very nice gesture. Racor, however, claims that putting in these thermostats set to 160 will quickly burn up their heaters. After a year, both are still running fine, but I don't have a sense of how much I am overworking the heater.

My alternator is MAXED out. I have two Racor 1000's, a Raptor pump, and a veg therm. My alternator can not quite keep up and I'm not sure what to do about that. I may be able to install the "ambulance version" alternator, which is a bit stronger. I have not fully researched this so I'm not sure if I can just drop it in. I have also considered adding a solar panel to provide a top off charge while the truck is parked. Does anyone have thoughts on this?

Purge time is a bit long (about 5 minutes). This is not a big deal, but I would like to be able to use less diesel to purge.

What does work
The conversion! It works great! While many people panned the Pollack valve and Goldenfuel switched away from it shortly after selling me the kit (damn), I have had no problems there.

I have a three tank setup and I love it. The trekker tank in the bed holds "dirty" oil. Sometimes this is straight from the dumpster. Usually, it comes out of a 300 gallon holding tank in my garage. My trash pump filters to about 130 microns and then I let it settle, often for 4-6 weeks in that holding tank. Fuel is routed from the trekker tank, through a Racor (10 micron filter), through a pump (tuthill 10 gpm) and into the "clean" oil underbelly tank. I control that pump through a switch on the dash. This setup is worth every bit of effort and expense. It is a HUGE advantage to be able to filter oil on board. Also, when the oil goes from the clean tank and through the 2nd racor (2 micron) it is already very clean. That means that that 2 micron Racor filter lasts about 10,000 miles or more. I just change that filter every other oil change and I never run into the problem of a clogged filter while driving.
** I don't fully understand how this works, but apparently I have created a gravity feed from the dirty tank to the clean tank. After I fill the dirty tank, I run the pump for a couple minutes, then oil feeds through the filter and into the clean tank on its own. This means that my clean tank is always topped off for me. Anyone understand why / how this works?

Oil temp does not seem to be an issue. I was very worried about that going in, and during the winter, my oil is barely above 100 degrees as it hits the stock filter (where my temp gauge is). Charlie at Goldenfuel teased me for installing a veg therm and insists that it is impossible to inject cold oil into a powerstroke. I believe him, and I imagine the vegtherm is unnecessary.

Cross contamination is not an issue. The truck spits some veg back to the diesel tank every time I purge (because of the 6 way valve, the systems are not isolated from each other). I have never noticed problem with starting up on diesel that could be attributed to veg contamination / gelling.


Oil Gathering
I went through a couple $100 Tuthill pumps before I realized I needed to drop some coin and get a real pump. I bought a Redline MP2000RSG Heavy Duty 12 volt DC Waste Oil Transfer/Filtration System. It set me back nearly a grand (ouch) and is so worth it. The pump will suck nasty, cold oil (only have to filter to 1000 micron on the vacuum side) for hours on end (continuous duty motor). Also, the various parts of this pump are all replaceable. I can replace the motor, the pump, or the gearing if one of them blows out. The pump also came with two washable basket strainers. These things are great and I bought a series of strainers ranging from 600 micron to 130 micron. That way, I can adjust how fine I filter the oil based on temperature, my mood, and the alignment of the stars.

I also got two 300 gallon totes from the local petroleum distributor. They give away the ones that have damaged cages, lids, etc. These things are also priceless. I keep one in my garage to store oil for filling up the truck. When I go collecting, I put the other in my truck. Once every 6-8 weeks, I make my rounds and collect 300 gallons of oil. Back at home, I run it through the strainers (130 micron), and then it settles in the garage tank. Any water settles to the bottom, most solids settle to the bottom. I generally run about 300 gallons through my dirty tank and filter between filter changes. At some point, this will be a huge pain to clean.

**For anyone considering getting into this, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND getting a high quality / high capacity pump and storage setup. This has vastly increased my SVO quality of life and greatly decreased the amount of time that I have to invest in oil gathering and filtering.

Upgrade plans
The stock filter is a point of restriction. My truck has an Edge Evolution power programmer (I keep it on "tow" setting, which is the most mild of the power settings. I like the extra power because it keeps the truck from prematurely down shifting on a steep grade. However, sometimes I don't think I get quite enough fuel through the filter. I can hear the mechanical lift pump start whirring away (makes a clicking noise), I lose a bit of power, and if I don't back off I can wind up starving the engine. I'm not sure how to go about this. My mechanic tells me I need to run fuel through that stock filter bowl because it contains monitoring equipment such as fuel pressure and temp gauges. Also, the filter bowl outlet and subsequent inlet for the stock lift pump are ridiculously close together. I don't think it's possible to splice in to bypass the filter bowl for veg.

My idea (actually my mechanic's): Take the filter out of the stock filter bowl and just run fuel through there. Install another filter housing / filter in the diesel line. That way, it only filters diesel and it eliminates the veg restriction. That leaves a quart of fuel still in the filter bowl that has to be washed through during purge, but oh well.

Anyone have other ideas about how to tackle this problem?

Final thoughts
I am more than pleased with this project! I invested a bunch of money into the conversion (about $4500), but have already recouped that cost in fuel savings. Also, money is not the big issue for me. It is hugely important to me to reduce my environmental impact, avoid giving money to oil companies, and to recycle a waste product. With my work, I have to drive a 4x4 pickup and I have to drive a lot of miles. This allows me to do so with much less impact.

If you are considering taking on an SVO project, please consider that in order to make it sustainable in the long run, you will likely need to make a significant investment in terms of time, money, and personal commitment.

I would absolutely do this again, and would not hesitate to buy the same kit again.

I'm eager to hear any thoughts those more experienced than me have on my questions / problems and I'm happy to be a help to anyone thinking about getting into SVO.

Thanks!
-Charlie

 

[hheynow]

My idea (actually my mechanic's): Take the filter out of the stock filter bowl and just run fuel through there. Install another filter housing / filter in the diesel line. That way, it only filters diesel and it eliminates the veg restriction. That leaves a quart of fuel still in the filter bowl that has to be washed through during purge, but oh well.

Anyone have other ideas about how to tackle this problem?

Plantdrive solved this problem by having an aluminum billet milled to the stock fuel filter size. It fits on the standpipe in the fuel bowl and its function is to cut down the purge time considerably because it displaces 95% of the fuel bowl's volume. With it installed you need to install two separate fuel filters, one for diesel and one for VO which is heated. Having separate filters is optimal because if while driving your VO filter gets clogged just flip to diesel until you can change the VO filter. Sure beats trying to change a VO filter at night in a rain storm by the side of a dark road.

FYI, I use the stock fuel pump for both fuels but obviously they have separate filters so the fuel bowl does see both fuels but with the aluminum billet my purge times are down to a mile or two down from about 5-7 miles.

 

[CharlieC]

Wow, very cool. What do you then run for a filter on the diesel side? I'll check with plant drive to see if they still have that aluminum insert. Thanks!

 

[hheynow]

What do you then run for a filter on the diesel side?

Top photo is an internet photo of what's on my diesel side. It's a Racor 445 housing with a R90T 10 micron filter installed under the bed and above the rear axle near the rear tank. VO filter is a Vormax, but contrary to bottom photo I use the R90T there too.

 

[ridiculously_necessary]

that aluminum insert can break the FBH (Fuel Bowl Heater) and cause it to short out and blow the #22 fuse. but yes it does do what it says.

good to see you back Charlie! glad to hear you have 30k under the hood.

my current system mixes fuels in the bowl as well. ive found recently this is not good. you can get by quite a while doign it though. i am upgrading my kit with the DIY i drew up in the sticky. it will eliminate the bowl and run parallel systems. it also eliminiates the weak stock mechanical pump. 100 degree wvo is not easy on the pump, while it may be impossbile to put cold VO into a psd, you can put cold vo into the bowl, pump and lines.

you say your running a gravity settling system? is it by chance elevated? if so you might look at running a centrifuge. that will help keep the dirty tank cleaner. and you may never need to change to racors again! are you pumping from dumpsters or yuor own barrells? does water get into your barrells if you use them?

i love running wvo too, i highly recommend it to people who will see the benifit.

an update on us, some of us have our flush times down to 10 to 20 seconds, and purge times to 30 seconds.

just a friendly heads up, your probably going to get some criticism on your setup.

i would like hear more about your collection methods, where you splice into the fuel line. also, where you from? im about 3 hours from Charlie at GFS, since you have worked with him i wonder if your nearby.

 

[hheynow]

that aluminum insert can break the FBH (Fuel Bowl Heater) and cause it to short out and blow the #22 fuse. but yes it does do what it says.

Yup, it broke the fuel bowl heater welds off :icon_ford: so I just unplugged and removed it. Works just fine w/o it. Never had that famous #22 blown fuse though. That fuel bowl heater is not needed as all it really does is prevent the fuel in the bowl from staying gelled for start-up during cold spells but with good glow plugs starting it is not an issue. Heck, my diesel fuel filter is mounted under the bed and has no 12v heat source so it's a mute point for me but if I lived in a colder climate I'd put a 12v pad heater around the fuel filter in a New York minute.

 

[ridiculously_necessary]

i dont think vegginpsd (in Wisconsin) has one either.

 

[CharlieC]

Huh, interesting. Thanks a lot for the photos and thoughts. Right now, I give myself about 5 miles to purge, 3 on a grade at highway speeds, and then two through the neighborhood. I'd love to get that down.

So, while the aluminum insert may bust the heater, it has left the fuel bowl intact for you guys? It seems like a more straightforward way for me to lower purge times than to pull the fuel bowl.

My impression was the fuel bowl also had several sensors in it, including fuel pressure, that the truck computer relied on. Is that not the case? Does pulling the fuel bowl present any of those issues? Seems like without the bowl, I could get a lot closer to those 30 second purge times you all are talking about.

Ridiculous, let me answer your questions.
I'm in St. George, UT. It's the SW corner of the state, right next to Zion Natl Park and about two hours north of Vegas. Great oil collection climate because it rarely freezes. In the summer, with temps around 100, my oil settles out to close to 5 microns.

For collection, I get cubies from some folks, and mostly pump out of dumpsters (yes, with permission). Water in the dumpsters is not a huge issue, since I live in a desert, but I'm careful about it. It does happen occassionally. I just use a 600 micron screen on my pickup stick on the way into my collection tank, then I run it through a couple of strainers to get it down to 130 microns on the way into my garage storage tank. From there, I just let it settle and then tank oil off the top when I need it. It then goes into the dirty tank on the truck, through a racor 1000 with a 30 micron filter, and into the underbelly tank. In the summer, I'll run a couple hundred gallons through that first racor on a single filter. In the winter, it's more like 80 - 100. Then, the 2nd racor, with a 2 micron filter generally lasts 3 - 5 k miles.

As far as where I splice into the fuel line, I left the d2 line intact all the way up to where the stock switching valve was on the frame rail, under the driver's seat. Now, I mounted the 6 way valve in the engine compartment, so the common line is pretty short.

I appreciate the discussion!

 

[hheynow]

The sensors on the fuel bowl are: water in fuel, fuel restriction and fuel bowl heater. If you removed all three and plugged the holes you would still run fine. You would just not see the dash lights come on for water in fuel or fuel restriction when they should be lit. Eliminating the fuel bowl heater means nothing because you re-install that flat plate minus the heater wire so the spacing when you re-thread the standpipe is still snug. REMEMBER THE STANDPIPE HAS REVERSE THREADS AND IS PLASTIC! A 7/8" crow foot wrench works best. The fuel pressure is regulated by the FPR (the housing screwed to and connected to the fuel bowl). Mine is intact. Don't screw with the FPR it's pre-set. There is a mod called "shimming the FPR" where you unscrew the brass plug and insert a bb to raise the fuel pressure if you so desire but mine is stock.

 

[ridiculously_necessary]

...As far as where I splice into the fuel line, I left the d2 line intact all the way up to where the stock switching valve was on the frame rail, under the driver's seat. Now, I mounted the 6 way valve in the engine compartment, so the common line is pretty short.

I appreciate the discussion!

thats the same as my truck. my floater in the tank, and possibly the entire pickup is screwed up. presumably with poly. but i could be wrong. my pollack valve i believe is also messed up. i mention that incase your pollak goes as well, dont replace it with a stock unit, get a better one from GC or someplace. when i replace mine i wont be using it for veg anymore.

the aluminum block should help cut down quite a bit. you have plenty of veg sources where you are?

 

[vegginpsd]

i dont think vegginpsd (in Wisconsin) has one either.

I do have a fuel bowl heater.......its sitting on a parts shelf in a ziplock bag still in the fuel bowl!

No bowl, no heater, no leaks, no blown #22 fuse and no problems. Done deal.:thumb:

 

[hheynow]

However the three of us have the OBS fuel system and yours is a '99.

 

[vegginpsd]

However the three of us have the OBS fuel system and yours is a '99.

Sorry didnt take that into consideration.
I was just replying to matts post.

On the Obs I would ditch the pump and convert to electric if I was given the chance. Bowl delete also. Simple neat and proven. Jmho

 

[CharlieC]

thats the same as my truck. my floater in the tank, and possibly the entire pickup is screwed up. presumably with poly. but i could be wrong. my pollack valve i believe is also messed up. i mention that incase your pollak goes as well, dont replace it with a stock unit, get a better one from GC or someplace. when i replace mine i wont be using it for veg anymore.

Interesting, the floater is working fine in my veg tank, but doesn't in the D2 tank. It just reads totally full until it has about 1/4 tank left, then the gauge starts dancing around. Annoying, but not a big enough problem to pull that tank down. Yikes.

The Goldenfuel kit came with a new 6 way valve, so that's what I mounted in the engine compartment.

the aluminum block should help cut down quite a bit. you have plenty of veg sources where you are?

No problem with veg sources! Thanks to insatiable fast food appetites and not too many people vying for oil around here, there is more oil than I could possibly use. Now that's a good problem to have. Plus, daytime highs, even in the winter, are often up around 60, so I can pump even PHO all year long.

 

[hheynow]

Interesting, the floater is working fine in my veg tank, but doesn't in the D2 tank. It just reads totally full until it has about 1/4 tank left, then the gauge starts dancing around. Annoying, but not a big enough problem to pull that tank down. Yikes.

Same here on the D2 tank sender. It's a very common problem.

 

[ridiculously_necessary]

Same here on the D2 tank sender. It's a very common problem.

oddly enough my D2 sender is fine... :tard:

i dont know what im going to do with my wvo tank after i upgrade. i may try the 3 tank system Mike suggested. the purpose would be negated but i guess no reason not to do it...

 

[CharlieC]

Thanks for all your thoughts guys. And many thanks to hheynow and ridiculously_necessary for the PM conversations. Very helpful.

I have decided to get there in and play with my system some, so I have some questions to bounce off of everyone.

I am going to add a heat exchanger. FPHE is the standard, but I've also seen the Arctic Fox linehauler mentioned a few times. Does anyone have experience with these? Also, can I mount a linehauler or FPHE to my firewall in the engine compartment? I would much prefer to mount there rather than on the framewall for better efficiency.

Ideally, I would like to do a bowl delete and upgrade to an electric fuel system. I will keep my 6 way valve and will just need to modify the system forward of that.

Has anyone posted a thread on the 94-97 bowl delete? I'm not clear how I would go about tapping into the stock metal fuel lines. Is there a kit out there for this?

I currently own a Pureflow raptor. It is a 100gph pump adjustable 0 - 60 psi. I currently use it as a boost for the mechanical pump. Is this powerful enough to be the electric fuel pump for my system? I think stock pressure is around 50, and I see many people talking about low 60's. Seems like if I ran this pump wide open, it would be enough. Thoughts?

If not, I was thinking that I would use a single electric pump (yeah, I know I don't get two separate systems then), probably the FASS 23 A version. I noticed with ITP's 99+ bowl delete kit, it mounts on the back of the HP oil resevoir. They offer a mounting bracket for an FPR. Is that solid enough that I could mount the FASS up there if I fabricated a mounting bracket?

Also, on DFA's manual, they take out the mechanical pump and put a plug in. Any reason why I can't just leave the mechanical pump in place and not use it?

Thanks a ton for your help! You guys have been very helpful.

 

[ridiculously_necessary]

Thanks for all your thoughts guys. And many thanks to hheynow and ridiculously_necessary for the PM conversations. Very helpful.

I have decided to get there in and play with my system some, so I have some questions to bounce off of everyone.

I am going to add a heat exchanger. FPHE is the standard, but I've also seen the Arctic Fox linehauler mentioned a few times. Does anyone have experience with these? Also, can I mount a linehauler or FPHE to my firewall in the engine compartment? I would much prefer to mount there rather than on the framewall for better efficiency.

Ideally, I would like to do a bowl delete and upgrade to an electric fuel system. I will keep my 6 way valve and will just need to modify the system forward of that.

Has anyone posted a thread on the 94-97 bowl delete? I'm not clear how I would go about tapping into the stock metal fuel lines. Is there a kit out there for this? Not that i am aware of, but vegginpsd knows the size of the fittings on the back of the head...

I currently own a Pureflow raptor. It is a 100gph pump adjustable 0 - 60 psi. I currently use it as a boost for the mechanical pump. Is this powerful enough to be the electric fuel pump for my system? I think stock pressure is around 50, and I see many people talking about low 60's. Seems like if I ran this pump wide open, it would be enough. Thoughts?

If not, I was thinking that I would use a single electric pump (yeah, I know I don't get two separate systems then), probably the FASS 23 A version. I noticed with ITP's 99+ bowl delete kit, it mounts on the back of the HP oil resevoir. They offer a mounting bracket for an FPR. Is that solid enough that I could mount the FASS up there if I fabricated a mounting bracket?

Also, on DFA's manual, they take out the mechanical pump and put a plug in. Any reason why I can't just leave the mechanical pump in place and not use it? good question, i would imagine so if you take the acuator rod out. but you can get a 7/8" freeze plug cheap. or maybe you can just dosconnect all lines to and from the pump...??

Thanks a ton for your help! You guys have been very helpful.

my thoughts in blue, the rest ill let others chime in on. i will however throw in my two cents on the pump, you might be able to keep the raptor for veg, and just get an MSD2225 for about $100 for the D2 side. sorry if thats a repeat, i cannot recall everything we have discussed.

 

[vegginpsd]

1/8 NPT:nod:

 

[CharlieC]

Do you think it would work to leave the stock lines installed at the heads and to connect my lines to the stock lines?

The part of this that seems beyond my ability is bending new lines. Is there a fitting I could solder onto the cut stock line or even a push on fitting that I could then connect to the 3/8" common fuel line?

Thanks

EDIT: Ask and the universe gives. A friend just shared this link with me: http://97stroker.webs.com/electricfuelinstall.htm