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The Silent Service
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Discussion Starter #1
So, there was discussion in another thread about the benefits of the Zoodad mod, vs. Stock airflow, vs. a Ram Air style hood.

So I'd like to open the floor here and discuss the benifits of each of these airflow options. As I get the chance to compute some numbers, I'll continue to update this thread.

Note: This is not a debate of specific air filters, we've gone over that enough. This is a debate of airflow, and its impact in overall performance.

Orginial Discussion Point:
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0l-performance-parts-discussion/265109-hybrid-reviews.html

Referenced Threads:
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0l-performance-parts-discussion/265403-zoodad-mod.html
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0l-performance-parts-discussion/238871-zoodad-mod.html

Here's some of the key points (This is not a call out, but a point of where this discussion started):
LOL I can barely break 1100 with stock injectors and stock turbo.
Are you tuned? Cause if you are and you can't break 1100* something isn't right.
Well I have a 5" exhaust, Cold air intake that is fed directly from the RAM AIR INDUCTION HOOD and some other things I can't remember right off hand but yes I am tuned and I also haven't done any runs from 0-100 so I wouldn't know for sure if I can get them hotter but I know that if I go from say 30 wot to 80 I will only hit around 1050. Cruising on the highway at 70 it sits around 600-750 and cruising at 55 on country roads its about 600.
. . .
Your truck will get hotter than 1100* on a big tune. The hood isn't helping that much I assure you and damn near everyone of us has big straight piped exhaust and a CAI. BTW, as long as the zoodad mod is done, we all have ram air too. Just sayin'.
Disagree.... any curvature from the hood cowl to the air box would inhibit flow. A straight shot straight down the CAI throat would produce better results.
As I said I'm not going to argue but the flow from my hood will out flow the zoodad mod all day long in every scenario.
I'm not doubting the hood lowers EGT's, as a matter of fact I've been looking at the Cervini. Haven't decided yet. My point is that the hood isn't going to do more than 100* at the most (and thats being very generous) . Guys have reported 100* drops with zoodad and CAI. A ported intake manifold will lower temps much more than the ram air hood, 200*+ @ WOT. If the ram air hoods made a huge difference then everybody who towed big or raced would slap one on.
Are you serious, you really think drilling out a couple holes is really going to flow more air than 2 vents that are around 2" tall and 8" wide each?? You need to rethink your math on this the hood WILL FLOW MORE AIR THAN THE ZOODAD MOD. . . .

You can think what you want but if the zoodad mod made such a huge difference in egt's and flowed so much more air into the intake FORD would probably be using that little trick..
. . .
. . .None of you have this hood or a hood like it so none of you would know how much air it flows. The zoodad my help a tiny bit but not anything close to a ram air hood.
This is a topic worth discussion, for me anyway. So I'd like to hear the ORG's thoughts on the matter. I have a couple of references off Cervinis's website here as well:
Cervinis: 99-07 Super Duty Type 4 Ram Air Hood
Cervinis: 03-07 Super Duty 6.0L Ram Air Kit
**Note: I doubt a single ORG member, that's been here a bit would run the K&N, but lets discuss the air flow aspect of this**

Naturally with the image below, its apparent that those running a stock Donaldson filter are out of luck in the Ram Air department.
 

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I have done the zoozad mod and it dropped my EGT's by about 25-50* overall... The hoods will "take in" more air due to the bigger openings/holes compared to the three inch hole in the zoozad mod, But the zoozad is a straight shot right into the throat of the intake... It Works!!!

That's all I have to say:thumb:
 

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I agree with Eli on this one. I don't see how it can get any better flow than the zoo dad mod. Unless you ran that hood and the zoo dad at the same time maybe.
 

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The Silent Service
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Discussion Starter #4
I'd like to know how some of you guys are cutting your Zoodad modifications. Simple 3" hole saws, or bigger?

Just for the data, I think it will help this thread out.
 

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Size does matter....... The hole i cut is the size of the inlet for filter...also used a hole saw to bore 3 more holes to let air flow from the far driver side of grill to air filter side. That erea just dead heads. Now it is utilized to gather more air. Only works with 05 and newer...
 

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Personally I don't like either one, it snows here. And I'm pretty sure my stock filter will flow way better when the airbox is packed full of snow from the ram air hood or the zoodad. I will probably just install a s&b cac with no mods to it.
 

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I drilled two 3" holes and then took an air powered cut off wheel and cut the middle section out connecting the two holes...

Now I have a vertical oval hole measuring about 3"x7".



Sent from my SCH-I535 using AutoGuide.Com Free App
 

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i have always performed the ZOODAD style mod to every vehicle i owned. i have a varing climate, amd never had any issues with snow or moisture at all. there is too high underhood temp for this to be a real concern. i also feel the stock box provides enough air for under XXX hp. i just run a good flowing / filtering air element and been happy. My last diesel ( cummins 6.7 ) regullary ran 13.20's with a stock box and good filter.

i also , in some apps, go farther by removing portions of the stock housing ( PRE FILTER SIDE ) not only the zoodad, but also some holes in the box wals it self.

if nothing else , this mods adds a slight ram air effect ( on my 04 ) and should assist in lowering EGT's, are they noticable..... slightly.....20-40 degrees.
 

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By doing that you loose the benifiet of the positive presure creared by the ramming effect. It is not a matter of flow...it is more of a positive preasure over powering any vaccum created in airbox itself.
 

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Zoodad is great and cost is free to minimal. A ram air hood is going to put way more air in the air box at speed. Anything that can be done to provide cool fresh air will help.

I have had my truck with its Zoodad in torrential downpours at 60mph or better and never had an issue. I have also had it in tremendous snow storms without issue. I do have a screen over the hole in the radiator support.



 

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Only one way to test. Someone needs to put a truck in a wind tunnel!
 

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Zoodad is great and cost is free to minimal. A ram air hood is going to put way more air in the air box at speed. Anything that can be done to provide cool fresh air will help.

I have had my truck with its Zoodad in torrential downpours at 60mph or better and never had an issue. I have also had it in tremendous snow storms without issue. I do have a screen over the hole in the radiator support.
I do like the screen that you have put over your air box, that would keep snow from packing inside and other road debris from clogging up the filter. Good idea.
 

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The Silent Service
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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
So, here's how I see the airflow differences between the Zoodad and Ram Air:

Zoodad (Using a 3" holes, 4" apart, and then connected): ~19.1 cu. in. - Straight shot to filter. Any air filter will work.

Ram Air Hood from Cervini's: ~49.5 cu. in. (Huge improvement) - However flow has two major 90* bends in airflow (from hood into box, and top of box to pipe) Must have an aftermarket, that is open to the hood (limited choices).

So far, good discussion on this.
 

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Ok Ben I got some pics of the hood for you as well as took some measurements. The pics aren't the best but they will suffice so bear with me.

First are the measurements of the ram air openings on the outside of the hood.
The openings are actually smaller than the piping so to speak that directs the air flow. It looks like it opens up about a 1/2" in all directions once inside the opening.
The scoops are 13 3/4" wide by 1 3/4" tall, thats the openings of the scoops themselves, like stated once past the openings it looks like it opens up to about 14 3/4" or so wide and about 2 3/4" tall.



I can't really get a positive measurement on that as there are screens inside the openings to keep the debris out. (they do keep the debris out but not all of it you should see the amount of bugs and junk I pulled out of my filter when I cleaned it.

This is what the sink water looked like on the first rinse of the filter.



Filter after it was cleaned.



Once underneath the hood it is apparent to see that there is A LOT of room for air to flow through the hood with minimal restriction other than the point where it meets the intake housing itself. If you notice on my hood it actually drops the opening right on top of the intake housing and seals around the top of it thus directing the flow of air directly to the intake itself.



Now I can say that I have seen drops in EGT's upwards of 150*, I noticed this when I did the all the HPOP repairs I took the hood off of the truck so I could easily sit in the engine compartment and work. (I'm a bigger guy so I need all the room I can get.) Any how with the hood removed and I finished repairs I took the truck for a ride and noticed that I could easily hit over 1250* where as before I was only able to hit around 1100*.

I figured it was because I had just replaced the HPOP, STC fitting, IPR valve, new stand pipes, new dummy plugs, new turbo drain tube, new oil fill tube and CCV o-rings. To me I just figured that since there were no longer any leaks in the HPO system that it was running stronger and noticeably hotter.

However once I got back from my initial test drive I reinstalled the hood and cleaned up then went home. ( I had to do the repairs at my dads house as I don't have a garage or place to keep my tools at home so they are at his house. ) Once I got in the truck and was on the way home I didn't hesitate to get on it and I noticed that my EGT's were significantly lower than before. Averaging around 100-150 degree drop in temps. The only thing that was different from my test drive after the repairs to when I went home was the hood being installed back on the truck.

I'm sure the NAY sayers will chime in and tell me that I'm wrong here but those are the temps that I saw when I had the hood off vs the hood on.
 

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So, here's how I see the airflow differences between the Zoodad and Ram Air:

Zoodad (Using a 3" holes, 4" apart, and then connected): ~19.1 cu. in. - Straight shot to filter. Any air filter will work.

Ram Air Hood from Cervinis: ~24.75 cu. in. (~29% improvement) - However flow has two major 90* bends in airflow (from hood into box, and top of box to pipe) Must have an aftermarket, that is open to the hood (limited choices).

So far, good discussion on this.
I think your measurements are way off Ben. We are looking at the area of the snorkel opening vs the area of the open top of the air box. I run an Airaid and I guarantee that the air box opening in the top is more like 300 to 400% larger than the opening in the snorkel. Plus you have way more surface area in the scoops ramming air into the airbox at speed. I'll take some measurements tomorrow.


Now price of Zoodad vs price of Ram Air Hood and there's no question which one wins. :D


Snafu, nothing comes through that screen bigger than dust. It is fiber screen for a screen door sandwiched between 2 pieces of sheet aluminum for a frame. Might have cost me $10 to make and will never rust out. Well worth it IMO. Even if it gets covered over with snow or ice it still draws air from behind the radiator support like it does stock. There is nothing not to like about this mod.
 

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The Silent Service
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Discussion Starter #17
Tuscany, thanks for the information. Looks like your hood doesn't direct the airflow quite like the Cervini Ram Air, with the way it looks on the underside of the hood its hard to say.

PGreenSVT, I realize I made an initial calculation error, and have updated the above post. Its intent was only for the surface area of the two styles of induction at the hood/grill. I haven't found the measurements on the various airboxes yet.
 

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Don't mind me
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Ben I run the Zoodad also and I agree nothing like free cool air straight into the intake.
 

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The Silent Service
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Discussion Starter #19
Ben I run the Zoodad also and I agree nothing like free cool air straight into the intake.
I noticed your set up. :thumb:

I actually haven't cut anything yet, and in the end may not. Just wanted to see what information we could gain out of this discussion. Very few talk about Ram Air on the sight.
 

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I can agree on the cost benefit of the zoodad over buying a hood for the truck to do it. However with that said my truck was outfitted with this hood from tuscany trucks when it rolled off of the assembly line so it was a free mod for me when I bought the truck.
 
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