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Tomorrow, the New Deal will be announced.........

The Obama administration will unveil national tailpipe emissions standards and mileage requirements Tuesday, which will force automakers to dramatically boost the efficiency of vehicles by 2016, but give them a single national standard.

Under a compromise being announced tomorrow, California and 13 other states efforts to impose a 30 percent reduction in tailpipe emissions will be approved and extended to the rest of the country. The federal government is expected to set mileage standards that are consistent with those requirements -- about 42 mpg by 2016 for cars and at least 26.6 mpg for light trucks.

What this means......

The mathematics of this new Federal Law will mean that Ford for instance will have to have a fleet of cars that AVERAGE 42 mpg. That means that there will have to be cars that get 60, 70, and 80 mpg to offset cars that only get 15-20 mpg like a GT-500. The future money at the automakers will be all spent on engineering those cars that can get the 60-80mpg just to comply with the law. They wont have the time, money or the will to build muscle cars anymore.

That means that by 2016, the likelyhood that we will have cars with 400-500 hp is pretty slim, let alone very many cars with a V8 at all.

Smoke them if you got them, cuz they are going away. Thanks to all who voted for Obama. This one is on YOU


Think what they will do with diesels, good bye to those who blow smoke..............
 

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If he gets relected, I'm headed to our northern hat.
 

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Viking Heavy Diesel
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back in the saddle
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For those who might not have grasped it yet, diesel trucks are currently in their "muscle car" days... I've thought this for a long time. Remember the HP muscle car wars of the 60's and how it all died in the early 70's when the government began mandating emmissions requirements and such? Think of how much those old muscle cars in good shape are worth today. I'm not saying that a diesel truck today will be worth 10x what you bought it for 40 years from now, but just think about it a bit. There are way too many similarities from 40 years ago and today to disregard...
 

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Rice Hunter
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It's not gonna be good for us whatever is announced
 

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He has the personality of one whom is determined to "change" or control all around him. When I saw the picture of him on his bicycle I knew we were in for a ride! Most of congress probably has no idea what a car lover is, Be it Mopar/Forgien/Diesel or bikes. We have a love for the internal combustion engine and enjoy bettering them daily. This guy wants to prove something and he will use the things that in his mind are un-important to complete his agenda.
I would feel sorry for people like us but that will do nothing. I will write a letter and ask everyone I know to do so telling Barrack to focus on more timely crucial items instead of pis**ng on tree's that don't need watering.
 

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PMR = JUNK
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This is gonna kill auto makers. I'll spell it out. People complain now about how much a new car costs. Well now all the auto makers are going to have to spend probably billions of $ to meet these new requirements. This will hurt them financially. Now, makers will have to charge more for a new car to help recoup R & D costs. Now even fewer people will be able to afford a new car, therefore less cars being sold, which puts even more hurt on manufacturers. Now they will have to probably charge even more for a new car to stay afloat. And the cycle just continues from there.
 

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He has the personality of one whom is determined to "change" or control all around him. When I saw the picture of him on his bicycle I knew we were in for a ride! Most of congress probably has no idea what a car lover is, Be it Mopar/Forgien/Diesel or bikes. We have a love for the internal combustion engine and enjoy bettering them daily. This guy wants to prove something and he will use the things that in his mind are un-important to complete his agenda.
I would feel sorry for people like us but that will do nothing. I will write a letter and ask everyone I know to do so telling Barrack to focus on more timely crucial items instead of pis**ng on tree's that don't need watering.
It has nothing to do with being a car nut. This is the global warming brain dead morons getting their agenda passed.

I find it hard to believe that the new 2008+ year model trucks getting 14mpg with the DPF emits less emissions than if one were to delete the DPF and get 24mpg. Do these goobers not remember anything about science class. Matter is neither created or destroyed. So you collect the "bad" emissions from your diesel for a certain amount of time and then burn the collected crap out the tail pipe at a later time, how is this helping with air pollution?

I was reading an engineering magazine about a year ago and there was a competition to build a car that got the best fuel mileage. There was a company that built a hydrualic hybrid diesel car that got 100mpg but it wouldn't pass California emission requirements so they canned the idea. How does a car getting 100mpg not pass emissoin requirements? This is one of the many reasones why the car companies are in the toilet. The tree huggers want absolutly no dinosaur fuel being used for anything, whether it be coal, oil, or natural gas. They don't care what this does to the economy because it feels good to them. I wish being ran over by a train felt good to them so they would all line up on the tracks.
 

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And I think that the real problem lies in who profits from the use of dino fuel. The republican party has historically benefitted from "Big Oil". Thus, the libs are trying to kill the conservative cash flow with witchhunts and BS.
 

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wow this could be the BEST thing possible for our already struggling economy and automakers. . . smart move obama. . . Canada eh? i'm in we can all come back after he runs this country in the ground :doh:
 

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this could be done but its being done completely wrong. look at all the cars in europe that get 40+ mpg, their diesel motors! bring some of those motors here to offset these requirements. I am totally against all this and think its rediculous. However, i dont think the people will allow it. People want their muscle cars and their power, hell look at all of us adding tuners and such to our disels to make them more powerfull. We the people need to keep fighting untill we get to keep everything we love!
 

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Something is brewing in this country, and I don't think osama and his henchmen are going to like the way it tastes. I'm soooo GD sick of this tyrannical government being in my life, I could puke. It's been that way since George 41 :ranton:



:rod: CONGRESS
 

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It is no different than current legislation on average mpg. Right now it's 22.5 mpg for a manufacturer's fleet. Most vehicles over 8800 gvw are exempt anyway(Check you door sticker). Even if this gets teeth to it, it will not go into effect for another 5 or 6 years. The big 3 have been working toward 2010 emission standard since 2004. Most of the big 3 already have cars getting 60+ mpg in their "test" fleets to offset the 15mpg cars and trucks on the road. So all they need to do it bump up to a 70mpg small fleet of cars that are limited production and problem solved. This is just another case of misinformed people and an over reactive media telling everyone that the sky is falling.......again.

As far as the comparison to the muscle car era in the 60's , I have been telling people that for years. The big difference is that the engines are still capable of producing big numbers with some simple re-tune and mods. Back in the 70's you had 215hp 300 cu in turds that were the top of the heap and you couldn't do anything with them except replace the engine.

For those that can afford to go out and buy the newest trucks on the market , they will still be able to afford to make them faster and more powerful.
 

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Is the sky really falling?

It is no different than current legislation on average mpg. Right now it's 22.5 mpg for a manufacturer's fleet. Most vehicles over 8800 gvw are exempt anyway(Check you door sticker). Even if this gets teeth to it, it will not go into effect for another 5 or 6 years. The big 3 have been working toward 2010 emission standard since 2004. Most of the big 3 already have cars getting 60+ mpg in their "test" fleets to offset the 15mpg cars and trucks on the road. So all they need to do it bump up to a 70mpg small fleet of cars that are limited production and problem solved. This is just another case of misinformed people and an over reactive media telling everyone that the sky is falling.......again.

As a contrarian who generally favors liberty and free markets, I am still trying to figure out what business is it of the feral gub'ment how many miles per gallon a car or truck gets? Regulate the pollution - of course - and make a reasonable effort to protect the environment; no problem. That being said, I believe the agenda being put forth is a lot more sinister underneath. I have a sinking feeling that this is more about getting the US populace used to more and more interference by government into more and more aspects of our lives. It may start with what we drive, but soon expands into what we can eat, where we can live, what we can see, hear or read; etc., etc., etc.
:badidea:

If the price of fuel gets high and stays high for any length of time, people will (through market forces) choose to drive smaller cars. This, however, should not be "forced" upon us by Washington. Another thing to consider is the reduced fuel tax revenue that will flow to Congress if "more people" switch to cars that get 35+ mpg versus ones that only get 20. If we all get econoboxes, they'll be whining about reduced revenue from per-gallon gasoline taxes. WTF? Of course that situation will have to rectified with MORE TAXES.
:doh:

Finally, what is all of this BS (from the usual politicians) about trying to "reduce our dependence on foreign oil?" The same politicians who make this foolish claim are the same bunch doing everything possible to prevent us from harvesting our own domestic & offshore oil reserves (of which we have PLENTY). Duh!


As far as the comparison to the muscle car era in the 60's , I have been telling people that for years. The big difference is that the engines are still capable of producing big numbers with some simple re-tune and mods. Back in the 70's you had 215hp 300 cu in turds that were the top of the heap and you couldn't do anything with them except replace the engine.

That may be partially true; but don't underestimate the determination of the "eco nazis" who are in office nowadays. They're bound and determined to stop virtually any 'freedom-minded' person and will end up doing whatever they can to prevent aftermarket modifications, performance tuning or anything else that might put them in a bad mood.
:tard:


For those that can afford to go out and buy the newest trucks on the market , they will still be able to afford to make them faster and more powerful.

And much more expensive than necessary. Keep in mind that the "offset" for a company to build the new economy cars we may not really want is going to be subsidized by them charging more money for vehicles that people really do want to own/drive.
:nod:


** Been there; done that and got the T-shirt. **
 

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PMR = JUNK
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As a contrarian who generally favors liberty and free markets, I am still trying to figure out what business is it of the feral gub'ment how many miles per gallon a car or truck gets? Regulate the pollution - of course - and make a reasonable effort to protect the environment; no problem. That being said, I believe the agenda being put forth is a lot more sinister underneath. I have a sinking feeling that this is more about getting the US populace used to more and more interference by government into more and more aspects of our lives. It may start with what we drive, but soon expands into what we can eat, where we can live, what we can see, hear or read; etc., etc., etc.
:badidea:

If the price of fuel gets high and stays high for any length of time, people will (through market forces) choose to drive smaller cars. This, however, should not be "forced" upon us by Washington. Another thing to consider is the reduced fuel tax revenue that will flow to Congress if "more people" switch to cars that get 35+ mpg versus ones that only get 20. If we all get econoboxes, they'll be whining about reduced revenue from per-gallon gasoline taxes. WTF? Of course that situation will have to rectified with MORE TAXES.
:doh:

Finally, what is all of this BS (from the usual politicians) about trying to "reduce our dependence on foreign oil?" The same politicians who make this foolish claim are the same bunch doing everything possible to prevent us from harvesting our own domestic & offshore oil reserves (of which we have PLENTY). Duh!





That may be partially true; but don't underestimate the determination of the "eco nazis" who are in office nowadays. They're bound and determined to stop virtually any 'freedom-minded' person and will end up doing whatever they can to prevent aftermarket modifications, performance tuning or anything else that might put them in a bad mood.
:tard:





And much more expensive than necessary. Keep in mind that the "offset" for a company to build the new economy cars we may not really want is going to be subsidized by them charging more money for vehicles that people really do want to own/drive.
:nod:


** Been there; done that and got the T-shirt. **
:thumb:


Whats all this talk about moving to canada? Do any of you realize they are years ahead of us with socialistic policies? If you wanna see how the US will be in a few years, look to canada.
 

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It has nothing to do with being a car nut. This is the global warming brain dead morons getting their agenda passed.

I find it hard to believe that the new 2008+ year model trucks getting 14mpg with the DPF emits less emissions than if one were to delete the DPF and get 24mpg. Do these goobers not remember anything about science class. Matter is neither created or destroyed. So you collect the "bad" emissions from your diesel for a certain amount of time and then burn the collected crap out the tail pipe at a later time, how is this helping with air pollution?

I was reading an engineering magazine about a year ago and there was a competition to build a car that got the best fuel mileage. There was a company that built a hydrualic hybrid diesel car that got 100mpg but it wouldn't pass California emission requirements so they canned the idea. How does a car getting 100mpg not pass emissoin requirements? This is one of the many reasones why the car companies are in the toilet. The tree huggers want absolutly no dinosaur fuel being used for anything, whether it be coal, oil, or natural gas. They don't care what this does to the economy because it feels good to them. I wish being ran over by a train felt good to them so they would all line up on the tracks.
and they don't care where their electricity comes from,(magic) so long as there are no dams with hydro plants, coal fired gen facilities, natural gas burning gererators Etc. Wind farms create death traps for birds- - - the answer is to reduce the population of the world to less than 1850 levels.
THEM FIRST
 

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I've been hearing bits and pieces about this the past couple of days, from what I understand it's only for new production vehicles. I say rehab/repower older cars/trucks to meet the emissions of the year it was manufactured. :thumb:
 
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