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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm looking for some advice. I have a 2000 7.3 turbo Excursion. It's been running on biodiesel for 3 months (mix is 40 gals WVO, 4 gals kero, and 3 gals RUG plus Diesel Kleen cetane boost and naptha/mineral spirits additives). Once in a while I've added petrodiesel due to a lack of WVO. Currently the mixture in the tank is about half petro, half biodiesel. It has been running absolutely flawlessly until yesterday when I decided to change the fuel filter. The old filter I had put in in January from NAPA. The new filter is an aftermarket from Hastings Filter. I followed the same procedure as in January for restarting: turn on ignition twice to get the filter reservoir full, and then 3rd time to start. It started, but within 30 secs had stumbled, starved and died. I've cranked on it a total of 2 minutes maybe (eight - 15 second shots). Now the charger is on the battery. Should I keep cranking after things are charged again? (New batteries fall '07) Should I drain the filter to see if the transfer pump is working? - I can't hear it, but I never could before... I had no issues with starting until changing this filter... Thanks for any help!!!

PS: I did let it sit overnight after trying to start it, so the filter should have gotten soaked up with fuel.
 

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I'd pop the filter out and see that it's getting fuel. Sounds to me the filter or something else isn't letting fuel flow through.
 

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First of all, that's not Biodiesel! Secondly, check the filter you put in to see if it has fuel in the housing. It sounds like you may have greater problems though. (pump) Blending fuel is an art and if you have blended some thicker fuel a few times then you may have just shot all the money you saved from not buying petro.:doh:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I just drained the filter housing: no fuel getting that far.... It burped like there was air pressure in there....
 

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Your in Vermont? Blending fuel like that in cool temps will make for some thick fuel. You are aware your going to kill the fuel pump doing that?
Maybe thats what has happened here.
 

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:rofl::)I don't know anything at all about this, I just go to the gas station and pump it. ( Got that idea right here yesterday)But it seems to me that I've been told my whole life that breakfast is the most important meal.Fry you up some eggs and bacon pour that excess hot grease right inthe fuel tank, Then eat your breakfast.Now she'll start.:rofl::woot:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Your in Vermont? Blending fuel like that in cool temps will make for some thick fuel. You are aware your going to kill the fuel pump doing that?
Maybe thats what has happened here.
The day I began this filter changing procedure, it was 87F here. I don't have a gelling problem. Like I said, it has been running perfectly. We had a big storm front run through about that time (tornado warnings in our Vermont county - don't hear that too often) - maybe I have a vapor lock issue. Thanks to all for the "constructive" comments.... Some actual ideas would be appreciated.
 

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The day I began this filter changing procedure, it was 87F here. I don't have a gelling problem. Like I said, it has been running perfectly. We had a big storm front run through about that time (tornado warnings in our Vermont county - don't hear that too often) - maybe I have a vapor lock issue. Thanks to all for the "constructive" comments.... Some actual ideas would be appreciated.
I didn't say anything about gelling. 87 is warm but WVO has a viscosity that is much higher than diesel, blended or not. Unless it is heated to 180* at which point the viscosity is the same as diesel. I have seen this smoke a pump on more than one occasion.
And what about all those other days when it wasn't 87* while you were making that pump push molasses through the filters?
Sorry if you don't find this to be constructive, thats what it is intended to be. Blending WVO in a DI diesel motor is a proven bad idea. Thats not just my opinion, there is lots of R&D out there that will back this up.
No ideas other than check the pump. Check for codes to see if its something else like a CPS or ICP.
 

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danbeck sorry just thught i would try to lift your spirits:(
 

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It could very well be the pump. I find it odd that it happened exactly after a fuel change, but hey stranger things have happend. Also Chenry is right, the viscosities are just not the same. I'm sure with the research you've done on how to blend, you must have come across at least one person telling you that it will cause premature pump failure.:dunno:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Mdub707, you had it right. After closely comparing the used and new filters, I found that the new one did NOT have opposed holes halfway down the cap's threads - they allow for automatic bleeding of the filter housing. So the fuel couldn't come in and the air couldn't escape - hence the "burp" I found? I'm on the road again, and smelling like french fries and sunflowers...

As far as the viscosity being different, yah I can tell. My blend seems to be slightly thicker, but good lube for the pump too. I have an uncle whose pump burned up due to lack of lube in his petrodiesel. Using WVO may be just a big mistake, but with petro prices the way they are, I can afford a new pump when the time comes. I know I need to change my recipe when colder weather comes. Lots of people have had no problems with fuel pumps and WVO blends. I haven't seen any complaints from them on the forums - only second hand opinions based on true accounts of people who made mistakes and paid for them. I'm trying to get out from under a big thumb, and noone can blame me for trying.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
danbeck sorry just thught i would try to lift your spirits:(
That's ok Kent. Do you want some real maple syrup on those cakes? Vermont maple is skyrocketing in price more than diesel is. I'm up $5 from last year, at $35/gal, and the local maple candy company is paying $40/gal in the drum. I'm sitting on my 80 gallons from this spring, hoping the price hits $100! (never happen..) :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
First of all, that's not Biodiesel!
Actually, it depends on your definition. My blend has a much higher ratio of vegetable oil to other ingredients than the typical "biodiesel", and the whole idea involved with the prefix "bio-" has to do with the VO...:rofl:
 

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No... but you did directly connect Vermont with cool temps, and cool temps with thicker fuel...:bump:

It sounds more like you connected those for him. He is talking about the viscosity being thicker at ANY temperature. It's just part of the blending game. VO is much thicker than petro diesel, you've blended it to reduce the viscosity, but it's still not where diesel is, so your pump is working hard. Sure it's getting more lubrication, but at what cost? There is a trade off there...

As far as the viscosity being different, yah I can tell. My blend seems to be slightly thicker, but good lube for the pump too. I have an uncle whose pump burned up due to lack of lube in his petrodiesel. Using WVO may be just a big mistake, but with petro prices the way they are, I can afford a new pump when the time comes. I know I need to change my recipe when colder weather comes. Lots of people have had no problems with fuel pumps and WVO blends. I haven't seen any complaints from them on the forums - only second hand opinions based on true accounts of people who made mistakes and paid for them. I'm trying to get out from under a big thumb, and noone can blame me for trying.
You're absolutely right, I certainly dont blame you for trying, but you also cant blame us for trying to help you save some costly repairs down the road! I've seen blending done first hand and the ill effects associated with them. I have a buddy blending for an 02 duramax and an 04 6.0 The 6.0 gelled numerous times during this past winter, obviously his blend was off, but after doing numerous fridge/freezer tests, he couldn't get a single sample to not cloud up on him without having a ridiculous amount of kero/diesel in it. The pump started whining shortly there after, but now it stopped. I think it stopped because the VO is lubing it so much and just "masking" it's early death.
 

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The bigger issue is the cold starts on this blend. Vegi oil injected cold into a cold motor WILL coke and carbon up the rings. Can you justify a new pump every now and then, sure you can with diesel at 5 bucks, a new pump, even every 10000 miles would be worth it. But the damamge you are doing to the engine - how much free fuel would you have to use to justify replacement of the engine?
And your fuel isn't free, its blended with petro that you are paying for so maybe your cost per gallon of blended is around $2.50?
Once your engine heats up the coking is not an issue but at startup it is very much an issue. keep a close eye on your oil and have it analized regularly.
 

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Actually, it depends on your definition. My blend has a much higher ratio of vegetable oil to other ingredients than the typical "biodiesel", and the whole idea involved with the prefix "bio-" has to do with the VO...:rofl:
you can call it mud as far as i am concerned but nowhere will anyone regocnize the term Bio-D as a "blend" of WVO and anything else. Bio-D is chemically altered WVO that has had the glycerin removed to lower viscosity.
Blending does not cause the transertification process needed to strip the glycerin from the oil. This is not Bio-d from any definition i have ever seen.

And as far as hearing complaints from others who failed doing this, you won't 9 times out of 10. People have a tendancy to not talk about there failures especially where they might get flamed on about it in an open forum on the world wide web.
You will always (100% of the time) hear about it when these people succede but when someones engine dies from blending or running straight cold WVO in there main tank, they will not be heard from again.

Continue running this blend but keep us abreast with how many miles your getting doing this and any failures that may be associated with it.
Glad to hear you figured out the issue and it wasn't your pump! :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Continue running this blend but keep us abreast with how many miles your getting doing this and any failures that may be associated with it.
Glad to hear you figured out the issue and it wasn't your pump! :thumb:
I will certainly not be using this blend in the late fall, winter, or early spring. I wish I had more time - I would pull one of the heads and check things over. As far as the filter issue (which was my one and only problem so far), why has noone else had this happen yet? I just tried to get an extra filter at NAPA and theirs was missing the side holes on the cover too. Looks like a dealer item for me from now on....Is there a procedure for bleeding that I can change to, in order to use the "hole-less" filters?

PS: Thanks for the help CHenry, on this issue and others...
 

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I will certainly not be using this blend in the late fall, winter, or early spring. I wish I had more time - I would pull one of the heads and check things over. As far as the filter issue (which was my one and only problem so far), why has noone else had this happen yet? I just tried to get an extra filter at NAPA and theirs was missing the side holes on the cover too. Looks like a dealer item for me from now on....Is there a procedure for bleeding that I can change to, in order to use the "hole-less" filters?

PS: Thanks for the help CHenry, on this issue and others...


Instead of getting them from the Ford dealer, get them from the International dealer. They're the exact same part, and in fact the part numbers are identical down the last digit which is different by one number. They are only $35 or so at the international dealer and $115 or so at Ford... easy choice here...
 

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I am using the same method as Danbeck. I bought the secret ingredient at DieselSecret.com.

I was using this method for about 3 weeks and my fuel pump died. My truck has 41,000 mles on it and I never replaced the fuel filters. I know - shame on me. I am making this fuel thin to try to eliminate any problems. I did make one batch not thinned out and this may have caused the pump to work overtime. Te pump is covered under warranty as witht he EGR problem Iam also having.

Using this method did work and I will continue to use it until I am set up to make true bio. My fuel mileage did not change but I did notice a small loss in power. I tow a enclosed race car trailer and need the power. The power loss was very minimal. I have been trying to locate someone using this method. I have found 1. I make my batches in 20 gallon increments. My finished product has the viscosity as diesel fuel.

I do understand all of the feedback written here. I will also keep everyone up to date on what is happening.

Any reason why the 6.0 is so sensitive to other fuels vs other diesel engines?

Thanks all,
Rob
 
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