PremiumCare, ExtraCare, or Delete

you got it man. The dealers thought i was crazy when I went in with literally a laundry list of things to check and make sure they took care of prior to me even consider purchasing the truck. Do you have an OASIS report of your truck? This will show all of your updates and changes under warranty. Start there, and then do a search for Ford call backs and TSB's. It's available information online. If you can't find it by tonight, lemme know and I will post it on here for ya. Also, look at the 6.4 sticky notes. Lots of good info on here.

BTW--you are very normal. I am a civil engineer and i live my live over-analyzing everything. It's my strength/weakness. You should have seen my debate over tires, lift, no lift, etc....took me, eh, 4 months just to decide on the tires, and i still have yet to decide on lift/leveling kit/whatever! haha. Keep doing what your doing and your truck will last ya.

Regardless--get rid of that darn emissions equipment!!!

I'll take a look at the stickies.

It took me a little over one year to find the truck I wanted. I drove 600 miles all night to pick it up (left at midnight and picked the truck up at 10:30 AM). I had an OASIS report run on it before I went to pick it up. Pretty much nothing has ever gone wrong on this truck unless it was all fixed at some place besides the dealership (which the dealer said is not the case). I have about 30 other OASIS reports from different trucks I considered. I have them charted and linked for comparison's sake.

You would think this (no issues) would make me feel better, but it worries me more. Now I'm thinking, "Well, they haven't failed yet, but maybe they are just now getting there."

I weigh decisions carefully. Toolbox took me 6 months to buy. HIDs took 2 months.

The Cobra is still waiting on an engine and trans combo since about 2007. Rims and tires have been in the works since 2005. I know all too well how many different things can pile up in even the most simple decision.

Thanks Joe. These are great things to know when you take the risk of going without warranty.

For the record, in the past I thought all extended warranties were a waste of money. Seeing the cost and frequency of repair on these trucks (and other diesels as well) is what set off the alarms in my head that I need to be prepared.

Maybe we can start a list of the range of repair costs for certain items so we can all have an idea of the what risk we're willing to take.

I know my friend with a 6.0 had to have the coolant system replaced and had other issues that racked up a $12500 repair bill and about 1 week of downtime.

That's the kind of thing that terrifies me.

I'm still willing to take a calculated risk though.

Doss said:

ATVJoe do you remember how much that repair would've cost out of pocket?

That kind of stuff interests me the most. If some of these repairs are cheap (relatively), I don't mind having to pay out of pocket.

Anyone else have any common repairs they've had done under warranty where they remember the cost (radiator, EGR, DPF, injectors, etc.)?

Click to expand...

I had my DPF Fail and they changed my main computer. The only other warranty work I had done was upper radiator hose replaced with the dual o-ring hose--it was leaking coolant at the t-stat housing.

Again, i got a hold of mine and tuned it before some idiot had time to screw it up. I bought her with 19K miles and i don't think the previous owner ever changed the fuel filters. Unreal.

ATVJOE said:

I don't believe mine is a lemon, I had the HPFP done under warrenty at around 82,000 and I do have the Venturi-t and new radiator hoses performed at the same time of the HPFP. Should I still get the coolant pressure test?

Click to expand...

It's probably not. If you had all that done, you would know by now. you need to tune it though. Get rid of the emissions crap if you plan to have your truck for any extended period of time.

Along with the fact that you run the chance of wet-stacking your motor, possibly causing hydrolock from regen "making oil" (oil diluted by fuel being dumped into the #7 and 8 piston on the exhaust stroke sneaking past the piston seal), which then makes its way to your dual sequential turbo at approx. 1600 degrees, then sending it through your cat (which causes EBP clog point number one) to your DPF to clean the diesel particulate filter (EBP clog point number two) lighting a fire in your DPF and sending it back out in a cloud of ash that covers your fellow drivers in soot...oh and btw after about 100K miles of 1600 degree (or more) heat going through your two turbos, the seal between the two will most likely go bad, which means you will need to pull the turbos to replace. I mean the list goes on...the horizontal and vertical egr coolers get clogged, the coolant makes it's way into your motor causing coolant hydrolock and permanent engine damage, the exhaust that recirculates into your intake manifold cakes and restricts/clogs the manifold which means your truck cannot breathe--BAD!!!

i think y'all get the point. If you plan on keeping your truck less than a few years, keep it stock and buy extended warranty and say your prayers that she won't clog up or have a piece of emissions equipment fail. If you plan on a reliable, solid DD, DPF delete (and tuner...tuner is required obviously), EGR delete second, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, routine maintenance maintenance maintenance. She'll run forever...unless your right foot is too heavy for your modifications. You will shortly realize these trucks are monsters after you tune them. capable of up to 600 HP with just a tuner, Exhaust, and CAI.

Have i convinced you yet? LOL. do some more research. you aren't the first person with this heartburn. I'm a penny pincher and watch my budget closely--it was worth every penny to me. and don't be cheap and get the XRT Pro. get the mini so you can monitor your temps. also get oil analysis to determine the health of your motor.

k. of my soap box. :icon_ford::taze::rofl::woot::woot::woot:

Doss said:

Thanks Joe. These are great things to know when you take the risk of going without warranty.

For the record, in the past I thought all extended warranties were a waste of money. Seeing the cost and frequency of repair on these trucks (and other diesels as well) is what set off the alarms in my head that I need to be prepared.

Maybe we can start a list of the range of repair costs for certain items so we can all have an idea of the what risk we're willing to take.

I know my friend with a 6.0 had to have the coolant system replaced and had other issues that racked up a $12500 repair bill and about 1 week of downtime.

That's the kind of thing that terrifies me.

I'm still willing to take a calculated risk though.

Click to expand...

It's going to be tough to appropriately calculate risk in this situation. There are far more things that can mechanically fail, and statistically do fail a large percentage of the time to cost effectively compare keeping warranty and stock versus the latter. By deleting, you are decreasing risk of failure prone mechanical parts on your truck, all caused by our liberal EPA mandated BS rules. However, by deleting, unless you find a mod friendly dealer, your warranty is worthless.

Best case scenario--find a mod friendly dealer before deleting and develop a personal relationship with them. I have a dealer within 30 minutes of me that is 50/50 friendly, and one 3 hours away that is 100% friendly. That was the final deciding factor for me...if i could do it over again, i would have deleted without finding a mod friendly dealer, but that's just me.

Best way to mitigate risk in a cost efficient manner is hope your truck makes it 90K miles stock, blows up before 100K and you get a brand new motor to start fresh at 100K so you can delete all the crap that causes your engine to fail and have a fresh start. the bad part about that is not all components of your motor are replaced--lots are reused and you get the same failure prone parts that have been through hell because of your emissions equipment.

Hope this helps. I know it's a tough decision but you have to trust the guys on here. If you want a truck that doesn't need modifying, trade your truck in for a 6.7. This truck can't handle what the 6.7 can stock. They had a few more years on the design than international did, hence why their system is more refined to handle the EPA restrains and emissions equipment is less prone to fail.

wilsonw2 said:

Best way to mitigate risk in a cost efficient manner is hope your truck makes it 90K miles stock, blows up before 100K and you get a brand new motor to start fresh at 100K so you can delete all the crap that causes your engine to fail and have a fresh start. the bad part about that is not all components of your motor are replaced--lots are reused and you get the same failure prone parts that have been through hell because of your emissions equipment.

Click to expand...

Yep, but that brings out the engineer in me again because of the exact reasons you state. :hehe:


Well, I have a great relationship with one dealer here (who's a personal friend) and I asked who was most likely to be mod-friendly around here and he said, "No one." I talked to him about tuning and he said it would get rid of the stuff that fails that they see pretty often, but obviously doesn't cover everything that'll fail.

So, as we stand, I may get a warranty, take time to make decision on what route I want to go on the delete, and then cancel the warranty when it's time to add the tuner. The warranty is prorated on years and miles.

I'm still unsure on how long I'll keep this truck even though I love it. With the 2014 (or whenever the next gen debuts) getting closer to coming out, I'll have to see how that goes.

I'm fairly convinced deleting is the route to ultimately go. I've seen some people say that deleting the EGR isn't necessary until it fails. What do you guys think?

Anyone have a place they'd go to get the total package (tuner, EGR/DPF-delete, 5" exhaust, intake)? I'm looking at the Spartan packages right now.

CountryAggie said:

+1 for deleting everything and never looking back. I figured I'd join in on the Engineering circle lol (Mechanical Engineer myself). While scrolling thru this site I have found some very knowledgable people (Wilson is definitely one of them).

Yes you have to pay to play, but if you go what the EPA broke, and are mindful of the relationship between your right foot and the skinny pedal your truck will run for a very long time.


Sent from a phone smarter than me.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the kind words. I never claim to be knowledgeable, but I try to help others out with the facts I do know based off of my experiences.

and obviously ***2 on the relationship between the skinny pedal and your eagerness to push it to the floor!

Doss said:

Yep, but that brings out the engineer in me again because of the exact reasons you state. :hehe:


Well, I have a great relationship with one dealer here (who's a personal friend) and I asked who was most likely to be mod-friendly around here and he said, "No one." I talked to him about tuning and he said it would get rid of the stuff that fails that they see pretty often, but obviously doesn't cover everything that'll fail.

So, as we stand, I may get a warranty, take time to make decision on what route I want to go on the delete, and then cancel the warranty when it's time to add the tuner. The warranty is prorated on years and miles.

I'm still unsure on how long I'll keep this truck even though I love it. With the 2014 (or whenever the next gen debuts) getting closer to coming out, I'll have to see how that goes.

I'm fairly convinced deleting is the route to ultimately go. I've seen some people say that deleting the EGR isn't necessary until it fails. What do you guys think?

Anyone have a place they'd go to get the total package (tuner, EGR/DPF-delete, 5" exhaust, intake)? I'm looking at the Spartan packages right now.

Click to expand...

I had a good friend who was a mechanic at a Ford dealership tell me the same thing your guy did...then i was talking to a guy in the coast guard with a tuned 6.4 and he was like ya, I sent it to this place across town and they didn't care! It never hurts to ask...even if your buddy says something.

Doss, my fellow engineer, maybe you should start assessing the risk when thinking about how long you want to keep the 6.4. I've said this time and time again, and I still to this day stand by this statement: the 6.4 will be the most unparalleled and highest valued large horsepower diesel truck of it's time for two main reasons: 1) It's the last international designed/manufactured motor to go in a ford Diesel for a while...2) It has the most reliable high (500+) HP gains with minimal modifications. Had the EPA not gotten a hold of these trucks, I believe International would not have been dropped by Ford (THIS IS AN OPINION ONLY). Doss, if you plan to rid of the truck in less than a year or two, buy the extended warranty and drive the [email protected] out of it. You will be missing out on the greatest thing about a 6.4, but at least you have the comfort of a warranty (that's if Ford owns up to it).lease:hnoes:lease:

However, I would not want to foot the bill of a 2014 truck when the 2011 truck costs 67K new...esp. when you have a beast of a truck for a third of the price (or less) with MORE reliable horsepower when tuned.

I have not mentioned one risk that you cannot prepare for: Ford not warranting your warranty for various reasons. Search on here for the nightmares people have had with Ford with warranties, and read your warranty carefully. Certain components are not covered, and if they cause major components to fail, you are screwed. Also, say you happen to get a bad batch of fuel and your HPFP fails, destroying your motor, and Ford investigates to discover bad fuel caused the problem--say bye to your warranty and a 16-17K bill. Ford warranties in most cases do not pay for themselves, and you end up truckless for weeks on months at a time if something major goes.

I cannot promise anything, but based off of my personal experiences with my truck and all my buddies who have stock/tuned 6.4s, there is far less risk in tuning. Your good buddy who is a mechanic is right--not all failure prone areas are lost, but you cut them in 2/3 literally, and those left over can be controlled/mitigated (for the most part). A lot of emissions equipment fails even when you run your truck exactly as you should.

Again, to me it sounds like you need to investigate how long you plan to keep the truck and how much you like reliable, brute horsepower. good luck assessing that equation! haha...sounds like differentiating pi if you ask me...:haha::laugh:

03silvertj said:

Doss,

I just bought a tuner (spartan)/5" MBRP exhaust/S&B CAI from PTP, they have a sale going on for MBRP parts. I sent a PM to Nate, he was very quick to respond and answer some questions I had.

Obviously I haven't installed anything yet, but can't wait until I do!!!

Kyle

Click to expand...

I went with H&S Mini Max, AFE CAI w/ PG7, and Diamond Eye 5" exhaust to a 6" MBRP chrome tip. I chose because it is what was on sale a year ago when I was deciding to tune.

I wouldn't buy from anyone buy Performancetruckproducts. They have unparalleled prices and unbeatable prices. Call them up and talk to them about deleting. They have tons of these trucks and the SAME OLE QUESTIONS asked to them everyday. If you want a PRO's opinion, call those guys up. They tune our trucks everyday and know them inside and out, especially risks and costs associated with breaking something post-tuning. They will be able to give you better numbers on failure-prone mechanical components. Give them a call.

wilsonw2 said:

Certain components are not covered, and if they cause major components to fail, you are screwed. Also, say you happen to get a bad batch of fuel and your HPFP fails, destroying your motor, and Ford investigates to discover bad fuel caused the problem--say bye to your warranty...

Click to expand...

I would read the fine print thoroughly, several times. It will state, not-so-clearly what is not covered. Most often, the cooling system, exhaust systems and seals and gaskets are NOT covered....and it will also say something like "failed components caused by non-covered parts are not warranted". Well, that sounds like a good way for them to weasel out of most warranty claims...especially on the 6.4L where most major failures are caused by these non-covered systems/parts.

And you will also have to keep very good records and all receipts if you do your own maintenance, as proper and complete maintenance according to the manufacturer service schedule is also a prerequisite for warranty claims.

I say: put the would-be warranty money away, delete & tune with money out of your pocket and maintain the vehicle well....this should go a lot further in terms of longevity and reliability of the vehicle than relying on some piece of paper full of loopholes for the warrantor and no recourse for the warrantee.

MT