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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Been a long time since I've hit y'all up for guidance, but it looks like it is time once again...and I see the place has changed big time, when I first followed one of the google links I thought it was a different place, lol.

2004 late build, out of the blue started with multiple long cranks to get started. Once started I noticed the "check gauge" light and that dash oil pressure gauge was at zero at idle, but would recover once I was off idle. Google my symptoms and pull up a number of posts here with same symptoms and all seemed to be the HPOP. A little further reading showed that there was an apparent HPOP style change toward the end of the late 2004 build (June or July) mine was built in April, ICP is on the passenger side valve cover.

Chatted with my local Powerstroke shop and he doesn't think it is the HPOP since it is a late build and feels the issue is in LPOP system. I left the truck sit for a couple days, was able to do some poking around yesterday and today. I pulled the oil filter, found it to be kind of dry...expected it to be somewhat wet but then again the truck has sat since Tuesday. Then I pulled the ICP to check tat there was oil in the rail...there was and oil flowed out of the hole when I pulled the ICP. I think that is a good sign my dummy plugs and stand pipes are OK. Then I cranked and was able to fill the filter housing, although it took a few seconds (I didn't depress the anti drain button) but the oil flowed faster than it was draining. Put everything back together and still had to crank for 3 or 4 long cranks, 30ish seconds or so before it fired up.

Today I pulled the pressure regulator to make sure it wasn't stuck. I don't believe it was as there wasn't much pressure on the cap as I was unthreading it and the slide came out easily once I stuck the magnet up in the bore. However, it appears that there is some scoring on the slide



I'm thinking I should probably put a new regulator in to ensure the scoring isn't from it sticking and the ensure the spring isn't weak. Anything else I should look at before I resign myself to pulling the turbo and popping the HPOP cover to see if the side hole is missing a pressed in ball bearing?
 

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I'm no expert by any means but I did just have a hpop fail on my late 04. Before I replaced the hpop I pulled the ipr valve and ended up changing it as it was the original one without the updated screen. If I'm not mistaken I think a failing or failed ipr could cause a long crank.


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Look at the stickies first.

I would do a low pressure oil check with a gauge. The dash gauge goes on above 5 PSI, and you’ll see more than that cranking, if everything is OK. From there, air check either through the IPR or ICP, and you will hear a leak if there is one. It can leak through so many things besides the HPOP to invclude furl injectors. The late model ‘04 pump is different than my 05+ pump, but I think it is just as stout.

THere’s probably something in the no start sticky I missed. I know you didn’t mention FICM, ICP or IPR readings, and those are pretty immportant.
 

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Could blow air into the pressure sender hole to see if there is any resistance -- that should prove the ball theory
Would be worth the time to air test thru the IPR port

Just take some 320 and buff those scratches, they do not need to be all the way out, just smoothed some
The pressure should be 75 psi cold with the engine reved a little
That idiot gauge sender trips at 5-7 psi ...so not a lot of oil pressure at that point -- the gauge can only register half and zero
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Look at the stickies first.

I would do a low pressure oil check with a gauge. The dash gauge goes on above 5 PSI, and you’ll see more than that cranking, if everything is OK. From there, air check either through the IPR or ICP, and you will hear a leak if there is one. It can leak through so many things besides the HPOP to invclude furl injectors. The late model ‘04 pump is different than my 05+ pump, but I think it is just as stout.

THere’s probably something in the no start sticky I missed. I know you didn’t mention FICM, ICP or IPR readings, and those are pretty immportant.
D'OH!, never even thought about checking out the stickies.

As far as FICM and IPR FICM dropped to 47.5, FICM Logic was showing 13v last I saw. IPR went to 85% and ICP (HPOP) didn't register until the engine fired off.

Off to look at some stickies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Could blow air into the pressure sender hole to see if there is any resistance -- that should prove the ball theory
Would be worth the time to air test thru the IPR port

Just take some 320 and buff those scratches, they do not need to be all the way out, just smoothed some
The pressure should be 75 psi cold with the engine reved a little
That idiot gauge sender trips at 5-7 psi ...so not a lot of oil pressure at that point -- the gauge can only register half and zero
I'll have to see if I have a proper sized nipple to thread into the ICP mount, guessing it is probably a 1/4" NPT. I can mount a QD air fitting to connect my compressor easy enough. I do have some 320 so I can polish the scratches on the regulator but I will have to pick up an oil pressure gauge to check the low side.
 

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The threads on the ICP sensor are M12 x 1.5

As far as late 04 HPOP.s they did have some capacity upgrades, but they are essentially the same design as the early HPOP (and as such, have the same weaknesses).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The threads on the ICP sensor are M12 x 1.5

As far as late 04 HPOP.s they did have some capacity upgrades, but they are essentially the same design as the early HPOP (and as such, have the same weaknesses).
Perfect, thanks. I can try to find a fitting today, hopefully the rain that is threatening doesn't come.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Welp, I spent several hours traipsing around town trying to locate the stupid adapter fitting. Seemed easy enough M12x1.5 male to 1/4 NPT female...not. I have one more place to try tomorrow morning and if they don't have one I'll have to order on-line.

After a little more reading it looks like my issue is a) a leak, b) an IPR issue or c) a failing HPOP. If it is a leak it is either in the left bank or the STC (because the right bank oil log was full when I pulled the ICP). If the weather clears tomorrow I can try to pull the IPR to make sure the screen is intact and/or not plugged, which is possible. About 4K miles ago I did have to EGR cooler fail and had a Bulletproof Diesel cooler installed and the oil cooler replaced at the same time. If the shop got sloppy and knocked some crud into the oil cooler valley I guess it could impact the IPR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well folks, after more than a week straight of rain keeping me from under the hood, coupled with our governor's "stay home" order getting to the bottom of things has been slow. I did order a fitting to adapt shop air to the ICP port, that finally came in before the rain stopped. Once the rain stopped I put air to the system and had an air leak sound coming from deep within (not gurgling from under the pass side cover). My best guess was the HPOP but again thanks to the corona virus and being in an HOA there was no way I was going to be able to pull the pump with out getting caught violating my CC&Rs, lol...too many Karens and Nancys walking around all day, every day.

Long and short, I took it to my local PowerStroke shop and told them my findings. Sure enough it was the HPOP. While I have a Late 04, it is one of the bastard Late 04s with the early pump...ICP front passenger valve cover but the round pump with solid pump cover. It blew the ball bearing plug out which was causing the long crank, slow start.

for others searching similar problems here is a recap: long crank, multiple cranks to get running. Once running at idle base oil pressure according to dash gauge drops to zero and "Check Gauge" light comes on. Once engine is off idle, oil gauge reads normal.

Additionally via Torque I would see the following: 1st crank - IPR @85% and HPOP @ ~6 PSI, 2nd crank - IPR @85% and HPOP @115 PSI, 3rd crank - IPR @85% and HPOP would climb rapidly and engine would fire as soon as hit 500 PSI.
 

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Glad you got it sorted out
that ball bearing plug is a weak point -- should have been a threaded plug
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Glad it is resolved.

btw - ALL late 04's have that pump.
I thought I read somewhere that there was a pump change starting July 2004 (or was it June), which now that I think about it would probably actually be MY05. I had it in my head there were a few months of the 04 with the old swash plate pump and a few with the 4 piston pump.
 

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Some people still say that some 04's might have had the 05 pump, but I have never seen it, never heard of one (except by rumor), and have asked more than half a dozen Ford Techs that have seen a LOT of 6.0's. No one can produce a real example of it. Couple that with all the literature, and one must conclude that they were 05 and up.

And yes, the 05 model year began approximately 6 months prior to 05 (same with almost every year).
 
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