Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum banner

1 - 20 of 86 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi. We have a 2000 f-350 7.3 powerstroke. Approx. 3 wks ago, we were driving down the road, and it died, like you turned the key off. Wouldn't start. Had to have it towed home. Ever since then, I've been searching all the computer forums, looking for help to give my husband in diagnosing and fixing the truck. We had a spare motor, taken out of a wrecked truck, but it was running when it was wrecked. So he has taken out every sensor he can find on it, and replaced them into our truck. Still no start. The tach does move when you crank the truck, there is NO smoke out the tail pipe. The fuel pump is running. There is fuel in the fuel bowl. He replaced the HPOP. Still no start. Replaced the ECM under the wheel well with one bought from a salvage yard. I went to Oreilly to rent the code reader but they told me that if the check engine light is not on, then it won't work, and won't give any codes. Can someone please help ??? We live way out in the country, and tow bills and garage bills are extremely expensive. Theres usually nothing my husband cannot fix, but we are at our wits end on this. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,117 Posts
Does the WTS light come on when you turn the key? If the cam position sensor has been replaced, and it still doesn't get a tach reading, it sounds like the fuel bowl heater may have shorted out. When that happens, it takes out the power fuse for the PCM. Easy fix.

When mine went, it was warming up in my driveway, and it just shut down like someone pulled the key. There was no WTS light or tach reading, and no smoke, because the PCM had no power to command the fuel injectors. Unplugged the fuel bowl heater, replaced the fuse, and hit the highway.

EDIT... I just re-read that and realized you said you do have a tach reading. Hmm.. Has he replaced the IDM?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yes, the wait to start light does come on. Is the IDM that box under the drivers side fender ? If so, yes, he replaced that.
 

·
Transmission or Injectors
Joined
·
743 Posts
Have you checked all the fuses in the underhood fuse box?

Does it attempt to start (stumble, snort, rumble) or does it just crank?
 

·
...kind of looks homeless
Joined
·
2,079 Posts
x2 on checking the fuel bowl heater. IIRC fuse #22 under hood will pop if that heater shorts out inside the fuel bowl. This will also cause your PCM to receive no power.

If the PCM was replaced, was it the same PCM code as the original? I've never had experience with replacing those (although I have paid for it to be done) but I believe they cannot be mixed and matched. At least I know that they will not operate properly, but they might start up.

I would also check the connectors and conditions of all the wiring coming off your HPOP and in the general area of the valley (fuel bowl connectors, gpr connectors, UVCH connectors). It sounds to me like a bad CPS, but I'm just not sure. Even if the tach is moving you could still have a bad CPS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
no start issue contd..

It has only been cranking, not even trying to start until yesterday. Yesterday, a guy told us that sometimes the cam sensors you get might be faulty, so we got another one. He installed it, and it ALMOST started, had smoke and everything for a few seconds. Really thought it was going to, then it didn't and right back to where we started.

Yes, he has taken each fuse out and checked them. Any other ideas for us to try ? We really need to get this fixed.

Thank you
 

·
...kind of looks homeless
Joined
·
2,079 Posts
Do you have access to a battery trickle charger? I would check your batteries' loads to make sure you're pushing enough juice to fire up. These trucks take some serious power to start and if the batteries are low it will crank, but not fire. I had the same no start situation a while back and all it took was a new CPS and an overnight trickle charge on the batteries and some good cranking sessions. I hope some other guys chime in, but it just really sounds like CPS to me. Also, maybe try to swap your old PCM back in now that there is a new CPS plugged in. You might get lucky.

Sorry I'm not more help, but I'll keep trying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
thank you for all that info, I have written it down, and will take it out to him to try . I'm not very good at using this site, I saw that the previous person, I responded to, I guess ever how I did it, it didn't go up there and answer him. but anyway, I sure appreciate all you guys help! thanks a bunch.
 

·
Former OBSer
Joined
·
5,706 Posts
I would suggest checking the oil quantity too.
I learned this the hard way.
 

·
BANNED by Kris
Joined
·
6,317 Posts
Just to clean things up:

-Tach. bounces while cranking
-Fuel Pump (sounds like it's / buzzing) working
-Replaced:
HPOP
PCM
and all known sensors (CPS x2)
-checked and confirmed all (under the dash and under the hood) fuses good
-Wait to Start light cycles

PreachersWife, please check and confirm that I am correct with the list above.

Please confirm yourself or with your husband that:

1: when the truck cranked and started smoking that the smoke was White out the tail pipe
2: that the IPR (sensor on the HPOP) was changed with the HPOP or as one of the sensors off the other motor. This sensor does not come with a new HPOP so he would have reused the "old one". Along with the CPS or a fuse the IPR will instantly kill the motor.
3: while cranking for about 5 seconds, does the oil pressure gauge on the dash climb into the "normal" range
4: there are no fluids of any kind in the engine valley
5: you stated that the "check engine" light was not present. Does it at least come on briefly when your cycle the key from off to run? Just asking to make sure that the bulb isn't burned out and there might really be a code in the system. The parts guy is only half true on the check engine light. The auto world has what are called soft codes and hard codes. A hard code would set the light and be readable where a soft code would not set the light and the PCM is looking to see if the fault happens again before setting a hard code. Both are readable but not by all scan tools.

Things to look at right now. Please:

6: the batteries need to be tested off of the trucks harness (just need to pull the positive off the drivers side) to make sure that both batteries are in good working order individually. One bad battery can cause a no start situation because the PCM in the truck NEEDS to see at least 300 sustained engine RPMs before it will allow the injectors to fire.
7: No little miss the IDM is a separate computer that is mounted on the inner fender wall near the windshield under the hood on the drivers side. It is responsible for firing the injectors but only when the PCM, inside the truck behind the kick-panel by the drivers left foot, tells it to. "Generally" if there is no white smoke while cranking then there is a IDM fault BUT the fault may lie in the the PCM (sorry, Ford really did make the injection system on these trucks as hard as possible to understand).
8: The Super Duty glove box manual will tell you that not only are there fuses involved in powering the computers but there are 2 relays in the under hood fuse box that also power the computers. I don't know which one it is on a Super Duty but on our 1st Gen. Power Strokes it is Relay 1 that powers the PCM and relay 2 that powers the IDM. Please swap out the #1 & #2 relays for the #3 (horn) and #4 (trailer brake) relays to see if it is a bad relay.

I think I'll stop there for now and let you see what you can see. If I have typed anything that you don't fully understand (like what does IDM stand for) please do not hesitate to ask. We want you back on the road as much as you do.

Good luck and please keep us Updated. :ORG welcome:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,117 Posts
I did forget to mention batteries earlier, as these guys have brought up. When the set that was in my truck when I bought it went, I only noticed it cranking just a hair (barely noticable) slower. I didn't think anything of it, until she wouldn't fire. I actually had to jump it with our Suburban. Dropped a new set of batteries in and I was on my way!
 

·
Coal Rolling = Posing
Joined
·
9,871 Posts
Relay 103 is the IDM relay, and it's under the dash on a SD.

The owners manual has a decent fuze/relay diagram.

It sounds to me like they replaced the IDM already.

So, what about the PCM?

Is there, or was there ever a chip on the truck?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I saw another answer on here that asked if there was a chip in the truck. There was. I seen it on the dash out there this morning, it said Super Chip on it. We were busy and never really talked about it, but I had seen on here that someone had told a person to take it out, while trying to get to the bottom of things and since it was out, I never said anything. There was white smoke this morning. Then later on , we'd lost the smoke. I was out there with him a little while ago, and noticed the chip was not on the dash, and asked him, and he had put it back in . I said, well, take it out and lets see what happens. We cranked and cranked, and it smoked white again. and even kinda shakes a little, like it would like to try to start. but it don't.

The tach does move , and the oil guage does come up as well. the check engine light does come on when you turn the key on, but goes off. It does not stay on.

The HPOP ( out of the old wrecked truck) had the sensor on it, so he installed that whole thing. Since it is shaking a little, with the smoke, He is wondering if his batteries are not good enough ? or if there is air in the system or something . He first thought the batteries were starting the truck before all this happened, so they would be ok, but after reading the posts on here, maybe we need to try new ones. Especially after all the cranking. He's been charging them with a little charger but maybe that's not good enough.

I really appreciate all of the advice you guys are offering. Thanks to all of you !
 

·
Coal Rolling = Posing
Joined
·
9,871 Posts
Don't do anything else that costs money until you check a few things.

First, when removing and installing that chip, make sure it's never ever done with the keys in the ignition and the batteries connected. With the keys in and batteries hooked up, the PCM is "live." The chip is making a connection to the PCM, so pullin it while the PCM is "live" is a sure fire way to damage the PCM.

Usually it completely smokes the PCM when this happens though, no wait to start light, no crank, etc.

Check the under valve cover harness (UVCH) connectors. Make sure there's a good connection at each one. Disconnect them both, hit 'em with some contact cleaner and hook 'em back up. Then take a look at the big square connector over the drivers valve cover, with the 10mm bolt running through the middle of it. Hit it with cleaner too.

If those aren't making a good connection they could be freaking the IDM out.

The symptoms sound like a bad IDM to me, but since y'all replaced that (had to remove part of the inner fender liner to get to it) then I think you've got a bug connection somewhere confusing the PCM/IDM.
 

·
BANNED by Kris
Joined
·
6,317 Posts
I'm on board with the current prime suspect being weak batteries. Chips can fail in time that is why we ask to remove the chip first and foremost (we all seem to have missed that this time till Chvykr stopped by, Thank you). Please pull the injector wiring connectors off the heads (each side has two connections with one near the front of the motor and one near the back) and look into the harness connector on the valve cover and in the plug (check the first several inches of the harness coming from the plug). What you are looking for is oil in the connection and all the male and female pins should be bright/shiny silver. What you don't want to see is "burned" pins or fried wires. A common issue of the 7.3 is light duty wiring and a med. duty supply. It's kinda normal for these to burn eventually.

[EDIT] beat me to it :D
 

·
Coal Rolling = Posing
Joined
·
9,871 Posts
I'm on board with the current prime suspect being weak batteries. Chips can fail in time that is why we ask to remove the chip first and foremost (we all seem to have missed that this time till Chvykr stopped by, Thank you). Please pull the injector wiring connectors off the heads (each side has two connections with one near the front of the motor and one near the back) and look into the harness connector on the valve cover and in the plug (check the first several inches of the harness coming from the plug). What you are looking for is oil in the connection and all the male and female pins should be bright/shiny silver. What you don't want to see is "burned" pins or fried wires. A common issue of the 7.3 is light duty wiring and a med. duty supply. It's kinda normal for these to burn eventually.

[EDIT] beat me to it :D
2000's only have one plug per harness/each head.
 

·
BANNED by Kris
Joined
·
6,317 Posts
Awesome, preacherswife you are in better hands with chvyrkr then me. Sorry if I've been confusing things, I should stick to the OBS.
 

·
BANNED by Kris
Joined
·
6,317 Posts
I think my info is generally pretty good but I will admit that I just don't know enough specific information about the Super Duty's. Case in point the number of injector plugs and wiring or where and what number the relays were. Our setups are really close but still not quite right. I don't want to lead these poor folks in a bad direction that a Super Duty guy would know.

I am not blaming or mad or anything of the sort, please dont think that, Kevin came back to our chat room and asked for support. No one but lWilson and Alex stepped up. These people needed help and I saw that there where no SD guys lending a hand. I decided to give it a go. I realize that some Moderators don't like to get too involved with particular threads and am still willing to bounce ideas out there. Just please keep me on my toes so that when I say something not quite right (or not right at all) please step in and learn me something. It benifits both the OP and myself. Sorry all for the rant all.
 
1 - 20 of 86 Posts
Top