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Discussion Starter #41 (Edited)
Today replaced:
-MAP sensor (Motorcraft)
-ICP Sensor (Motorcraft)
-Glow plug relay
and the Crank position sensor (not Motorcraft - but what AdvanceAuto had on the shelf and available) was changed a couple of weeks ago.

I have a new IPR valve - however did not install it today. Will do that tomorrow afternoon.

Engine cranked over for about 15-20 seconds... stopped, then turned the key again - the starter relay just clicks now without the starter motor turning. (I did use a booster battery pack this evening - and it cranked over a few times - but then stopped again - leaving me with a clicking starter solenoid) (No - I did not have my OBD hooked up when cranking)

Will be checking resistance in the crossover battery cable, and taking the batteries somewhere else to test. (Batteries tested okay at Wally world... I don't know that I trust that little handheld tester they use, though... )

Thoughts on whether it would be prudent to go ahead and pull the starter and have it tested at my parts store while the batteries are checked? (I'm thinking so - since the batteries seem to be killed so quickly - this was my first time to crank it since I charged the batteries the other day)
 

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In my limited experience, a clicking solenoid is indicative of a poor connection or low voltage. If you can, check voltage at the starter as it’s being cranked. Anything below 10.5V isn’t good. Resistance checks on wiring isn’t always accurate, I learned that the hard way in Alaska. It needs to be tested under load through voltage drop.

I’ve read that a killer starter for this engine is a Denso one. Expensive, but insanely fast cranking. Good luck man, I’m relatively new to diesels myself.
 

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Sounds like you have multiple problems, but got to get her crankin before anything else, :)

Have you checked the grounds where they connect to the truck(not the battery)? also where the cable connects to the terminal ends.

Find a good ground spot on the engine and clip your voltmeter ground there, hold the other lead on the ground post of the battery, try to crank the engine(or use the headlights) ...voltage should be zero or near
This will test grounds, cables, and connections ...you can do this for the hot side, but it is more difficult.

Want to load test the batteries? Disconnect one ground, check the voltage at the battery post(of the connected one) then turn the headlights on high beam, check voltage again ...more load try to crank the engine
The truck will start on only one good battery, alternate to the other battery and test again.

Rust and corrosion in the electrical path will cause the starter to seem bad ...even if the connections are tight ..eg: where the starter bolts to the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #44 (Edited)
Starter motor - removed & took to A.Zone for testing. Passed. This wasn't a load test, though. Thoroughly cleaned the connections at the starter motor (and on the transmission bell for the ground)- and reinstalled it.

Freshly charged the batteries overnight - and cleaned all terminals & connectors at battery, as well as the grounds coming off the batteries. The drivers side battery ground (down under the front of the block) has a lot of oil build-up on it - but is tight to the block. I do not know the condition of the cables inside the insulators, though.

Still get a "clicking" out of the starter solenoid. Meter showed 12.4v in and 11.9v on the load side of the starter solenoid. I hooked up a battery jumper pack - and lo-and behold - the starter motor engaged -and sounded like it was turning faster than I'd heard it turn in the past. Motor still didn't start, though. SO - I think I've got battery problems or issues with the battery cables/connections that I have not examined yet. I'm hoping for an easy problem of it being a bad battery... however, I see above where Hydro says that the truck * should * be able to start with one battery. Ugh!

Rainy day tomorrow - so I doubt I'll get a chance to do much after my work for the day. I'll use my laptop/FORScan for Windows and see if it reads cranking info as well as Torque did while my bluetooth OBD reader worked. (Now have an OBD reader that connects via USB - so have to use my laptop/FORScan instead of my phone with TorquePro).
 

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Does your truck have the start solenoid on the RH fender?
 

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How old are your batteries? I know these trucks destroy batteries if they are started and shut down a bunch without long run times. Batteries usually are only good for 5-6yrs if they are a good brand. It might be best to buy some new batteries, that way you have a KNOWN good electrical starting point. I’ve been bit in the butt from stupid stuff like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Does your truck have the start solenoid on the RH fender?
Yes.

How old are your batteries? I know these trucks destroy batteries if they are started and shut down a bunch without long run times. Batteries usually are only good for 5-6yrs if they are a good brand. It might be best to buy some new batteries, that way you have a KNOWN good electrical starting point. I’ve been bit in the butt from stupid stuff like that.
One is dated 3/17, and the other is 4/18. They are both Interstate MegaTron batteries. There is an Interstate retail store within a few miles of my home - and can take them there for testing (Though their website says they only warranty to the original purchaser of the batteries).
 

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Couple of things:
Parallel connected batteries should always be replaced at once, the reason for this is, the older(weaker) battery will pull the 'good' battery down to it's level. On a daily driver you may not notice this as much, but let it set for a week or two and the batteries will seem dead.

Once a lead acid battery runs flat, it will never be as good.

Need to rule out voltage loss on the 'hot' side:
Here is where an analog meter is superior to a digital meter

I'm going to leave the next statement for educational purposes:
Alligator clip the black lead of the meter to the stud post on the starter(insulate as needed), hold the red lead to the battery post. Then either jump the fender solenoid(battery post to small post) or have a helper turn the key. Lower voltage reading is better.

Do this:
Take your test light and clip to the power stud on the starter, the other end touch to the battery positive post -- have a helper turn the key to crank -- the light should not glow(or only slightly)

Check the lock washer and nut on the big posts on the fender solenoid for discoloration or rust, replace as necessary. dont know how many times this has been the only problem ..lol

Need more coffee
 

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My 2cents ;)

First I agree, it sounds like you have a couple of things going on. Get your yourself set up with ForScan, monitor those HiPres sensors and retrieve any fresh codes you have. Post the results of them, while attempting to start, here (Any Codes - ICP - IPR - Cranking Voltage - Cranking RPM).

But, let's deal with your starter so you can be sure you're spinning like you should all the time.


You could also have a High Resistance Battery Cable as in that vid...
 

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Discussion Starter #50
I just dropped off both batteries to Interstate for a full charge and load test. They are telling me 24-36 hours to give them time for a proper job.

Couple of things:
Parallel connected batteries should always be replaced at once, the reason for this is, the older(weaker) battery will pull the 'good' battery down to it's level. On a daily driver you may not notice this as much, but let it set for a week or two and the batteries will seem dead.

Once a lead acid battery runs flat, it will never be as good.

(snip)
Need more coffee

Will do - as soon as the batteries are tested / figured out.


My 2cents ;)

First I agree, it sounds like you have a couple of things going on. Get your yourself set up with ForScan, monitor those HiPres sensors and retrieve any fresh codes you have. Post the results of them, while attempting to start, here (Any Codes - ICP - IPR - Cranking Voltage - Cranking RPM).

But, let's deal with your starter so you can be sure you're spinning like you should all the time.


You could also have a High Resistance Battery Cable as in that vid...
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Headlight test:
Battery: (dated) 3/17: Before: 12.36v - under load (headlights/with high beam) 11.93v
Battery: (dated) 4/18: Before: 12.40v - under load (headlights/with high beam) 11.99v

I'll do the other tests when the batteries have returned from Interstate.

Want to load test the batteries? Disconnect one ground, check the voltage at the battery post(of the connected one) then turn the headlights on high beam, check voltage again ...more load try to crank the engine
The truck will start on only one good battery, alternate to the other battery and test again.

Rust and corrosion in the electrical path will cause the starter to seem bad ...even if the connections are tight ..eg: where the starter bolts to the engine.
 

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Headlight aren't enough of a load to tell you anything, The Glow Plugs being activated are a much higher load, but what our batteries require is closer to a 300A load to properly test their capabilities (and Parts Stores only have 100A testers they use on Gas 6clys so that's no use, the GP's draw more than that ;) )
 

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Headlight aren't enough of a load to tell you anything, The Glow Plugs being activated are a much higher load, but what our batteries require is closer to a 300A load to properly test their capabilities (and Parts Stores only have 100A testers they use on Gas 6clys so that's no use, the GP's draw more than that ;) )
True enough about the headlights not being enough load, I usually resort to using the starter and only one battery at a time

The OP is going to have to get the cranking issue fixed before any of the other stuff has meaning.

Something I just thought of, ...possibly one of the idlers or water pump turning hard causing the hard crank? Possibly remove the belt tension and try with it loose.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
The batteries came back from Interstate as "good". I'll make some extended leads for my meter and start doing some load / voltage drop testing across my battery cables this weekend. Have not put the batteries back in the truck yet.... Any tests I should do while they're out?)

I'll see about doing it with belt tension removed. Not familiar with this - but I do understand the possibility of one of the components causing a hard start physical load on the belt system (and thus the starter motor to turn it all). Just pull the belt tensioner and hand turn the components?

I'm gonna feel foolish if this turns out to be a fuel delivery problem - since the truck started a few weeks back after I had pulled the bowl lid and put it back on (and had a battery booster hooked up as well, though)... I need to see about that clogged/stopped up bowl drain tube, anyway - as I tried draining with the lever - but it didn't drain.

That said - I'll work on getting that IPR valve replaced as well - now that I have a 29mm socket that it fits into for removal/installation.

True enough about the headlights not being enough load, I usually resort to using the starter and only one battery at a time

The OP is going to have to get the cranking issue fixed before any of the other stuff has meaning.

Something I just thought of, ...possibly one of the idlers or water pump turning hard causing the hard crank? Possibly remove the belt tension and try with it loose.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Today's update:

Replaced IPR valve
Removed fuel bowl lid and suctioned out the bowl of fuel (drain doesn't drain - clogged I suppose) and put filters back in place. Refilled HPOP reservoir with fresh oil.

Cycled key-on a few times to test whether the fuel bowl was filling - (opened lid - and yes - it's filling and under pressure! Had a bit of a spray mess to clean after opening)

Still crank no-start. Then after several 5-6 tries - it kind of coughed and acted like it * wanted * to start, and I did notice white smoke/vapor coming out of the just exhaust pipe. Then just loud clicks.

I don't believe the loud clicks to be the starter solenoid... Tested starter solenoid with a screwdriver across the terminals - and got the same loud clicking sound from the starter motor under the truck - even though the tests at A.Zone showed as "good"... I really think that the starter may need to be replaced. Thoughts? I thoroughly cleaned the terminals as well as the signal and the heavy cable to the starter when I took it off a few weeks back.

No - during the crank/no start I did not have FORScan loaded and running. I should have - but I didn't. (my laptop battery is not holding a charge at the moment - another thing to rectify...)

Questions:
* IF * the starter motor is not the problem (or is one of several problems) -

- At what point would I suspect a bad IDM? Are there some obvious signs/codes that would indicate a bad or failing unit?
- Would it benefit me to test the individual glow plug terminals at each valve cover? (I remember seeing a procedure for testing the terminals - will need to find it again)
- The starter motor that is in there is a 2-bolt starter (on a mounting plate) and has a sticker on it indicating that it's a remanufactured one - the mount on the transmission bell has 3 bolt holes. Should I need to go ahead and replace the starter motor - would you recommend I stick with a 2-bolt as is currently in place? Or go ahead and get a 3-bolt since the housing looks to support the 3-bolt starters? Or - does it really matter?

Frustrated - but ready to make more headway.
 

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Dang man, sorry for all the trouble you are having. Way to keep at it though. I have zero knowledge on diagnostics for something like that, but I can comment on a starter. Denso has a starter for this engine that is HUGE. It’s awesome for performance and makes the thing crank over like a gas engine with a jumper pack on it. Corey with CNC fab has one on his site.

Best of luck man, I’m following intently 👍
 

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The only thing important about the Starter itself (and the Batteries ability to maintain sufficient Voltage) is - can it turn the engine at over 100rpm? If so, it's not the reason you're not able to start.

The IDM? Well first, if it were the cause, you'd have IDM codes and second, you wouldn't be seeing fuel vapor from the tailpipe (shows the injectors Are firing).

I reread this all, go back to post #25, monitor those 4 things again with Torque App or ForScan (run your laptop on AC) it's worth the effort ;)

Remember you need to satisfy the PCMs requirements of <10v ~ <100 RPM ~ <500psi.

The engine itself has the requirements of Fuel ~ Air ~ Compression ~ & the proper "Timing" of everything.

You have something unusual going on here, I read where your Brother was liberally using Either (a Really Bad move). It's possible the engines compression has been effected.

Also, I read your mileage on the injectors and that you've had it Plugged-In without it helping (usually "cures" tired injectors temporarily). But it occurs to me, What if that Block Heater isn't Working? Do this, plug it in for a couple of hours and put your hand on top of the Oil Filter housing and see if you feel it Warm...
 

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The "loud clicks" you are hearing is the solenoid on the starter, ...low voltage causes this, ...may also be why the truck will not start. You need 9.5 volts plus, for the computer to "fire" the injectors.

Those batteries may not be as good as the "tester" says. The truck should start with only one good battery in the passenger side position. One way to "test" the batteries is todo just that, test with only one, ..then trade the other battery in the spot.

The other test is with an "amp clamp" tool to check for current draw, could also see if the battery cables are hot just after cranking.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
I'm still suspecting the starter motor/motor solenoid. Couldn't get it to turn the starter motor this morning. (I did not charge the batteries overnight after yesterdays attempts).

This morning:
All 8 glow plugs ohm out to right at .6-.7 Ohms individually. (ground on top of alternator to each outer set of 2 harness pins).

Forscan:
Key on engine off:
Voltage 12.25v (Dropped to 11.81v when trying to start).

Put on the extra battery pack.. and still a click at the starter motor solenoid under the truck.

I'll plug in the block heater - and will recharge the batteries - (and will test with my known good battery from my F150).

(edit - Also - After resetting all codes on the PCM with FORScan - the one holding out is P0107 - Low barometric pressure) - so far,...

Rex
 

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Good readings on the ohms

"Key on engine off:
Voltage 12.25v (Dropped to 11.81v when trying to start)"
This looks good also

The block heater should hear a 'sizzle' after a few minutes, and the area around it will be hot

Sounds like the starter is not working well, lots of miles? could be brushes, burned solenoid contacts, corroded end plate(grounds here) ... replace with the Denso starter if you have the cash

Here is a good vid showing the different starters
 
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