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Discussion Starter #81
So what is so bad about this Ford gold stuff?
 

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california deplorable
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shortish version...not my expertise
it contains silicates that get cooked by the high temps involved in these engines and turns to a gorilla snot that clogs any small passage in the cooling system
most notably and most troublesome... oil coolers, egr coolers heater cores etc...
 

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6.2 Convert
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Yeah, I should have captioned the pic. It's a cutaway of an oil cooler. The clean passages you see are the oil flow layers. The gooey passages are the coolant flow layers. As jg said, it solidifies and blocks the coolant passages and you end up with overheated oil and no coolant flow to the EGR cooler. Carnage follows!
 

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Discussion Starter #85
Thanks guys, that doesn't look like something I want to deal with lol. I think I'm going to see if I can rent out a shop space for a day to drain / replace the coolant and do the blue spring mod. I'm about tires of laying in mud to fix stuff lol. Is there any special way I have to drain the coolant?
 

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I'm lazy and don't like monkeying with that block drain behind the starter so I just drain the radiator. That only drains about half the coolant so I refill it with distilled water, start the engine for a minute to circulate it then repeat. After 5 or 6 times the drained fluid is pretty clean and clear. For the last fill I use a concentrated coolant so when it mixes with the distilled water I end up with pretty close to a 50/50 mix. I spend about $20 extra on distilled water and end up with about 20 gallons of hazardous waste to haul to the dump. Not the best method but it works for me.
 

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The Maddawg
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Like I said, after over 100 of those jobs and not one had Ford gold, I don't know. I still hold if you do as they say you won't have issues. I've seen both sides in the same shop, with numerous trucks. The ones that did regular maintenance, had no issues. The ones that were cheap and lazy, got head studs.

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The Maddawg
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I look at it as just another one of the maintenance items you have to be meticulous about. If you want a truck to stretch the mileage to 10k per oil change, maybe change fuel filters once a year and never peek at your coolant, go buy a 7.3. We are so meticulous about our oil changes and fuel filters on these 6.0s but as soon as someone says flush the coolant ever 30k we throw our hands in the air and pitch a fit about it.

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california deplorable
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I look at it as just another one of the maintenance items you have to be meticulous about. If you want a truck to stretch the mileage to 10k per oil change, maybe change fuel filters once a year and never peek at your coolant, go buy a 7.3. We are so meticulous about our oil changes and fuel filters on these 6.0s but as soon as someone says flush the coolant ever 30k we throw our hands in the air and pitch a fit about it.

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while i see your point...
for me it is one more thing i do not have to worry about if i take the gold out of the equation and I think in the long run it saves me money :dunno:
 

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Like I said, after over 100 of those jobs and not one had Ford gold, I don't know. I still hold if you do as they say you won't have issues. I've seen both sides in the same shop, with numerous trucks. The ones that did regular maintenance, had no issues. The ones that were cheap and lazy, got head studs.

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You say the ones who didnt have Gold got studs. How many of these trucks were tuned and had engine modifications? How many of the trucks not running Gold, were stock engine tuning/ no performance mods and how many of the ones who didnt need studs using Gold were tuned?


Also, i keep hearing a lot about the "right filters" So heres why I am asking. I am used to European aftermarket where the aftermarket sells quality name brand / non OEM branded stuff and its good quality if not surpassing OEM. Im reading a lot about the Ford/ American truck aftermarket and it seems like there are a lt of QA / S.H 1 T brands/ products I need to sift through?
 

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Gold has nothing to do with studs. At least not directly. The Ford Gold coolant is a quality coolant and works great if properly maintained and not used in a 6.0 where its EGR cooler can flash boil the coolant and cause the silicates to fall out. If the silicates ever decide to come out of solution, you get almost immediate plugging of the oil cooler. Regular maintenance of the coolant can help to avoid this, but I know of at least one member who had issues even with regular maintenance. The CAT EC-1 rated coolants do just as good of a job and do not have the problem with the silicates.

The filters question is not as much about quality as functionality. None of the aftermarket oil filters (that I know of) are of the exact same design as the OEM (Motocraft, Ford or Racor) filters. It's just not worth the gamble on a 6.0. There have been a few discussions on the fuel filters and most agree that it's best to use OEM (Motocraft, Ford or Racor). There is one thread where alternative was found to be almost identical and seemed to work fine. It was a bit cheaper too. Maybe someone else remembers better than I and can link it.
 

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I was referring more to function than it being of good material. Im just kinda of surprised there arent better aftermarket options.
 

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The Maddawg
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You say the ones who didnt have Gold got studs. How many of these trucks were tuned and had engine modifications? How many of the trucks not running Gold, were stock engine tuning/ no performance mods and how many of the ones who didnt need studs using Gold were tuned?


Also, i keep hearing a lot about the "right filters" So heres why I am asking. I am used to European aftermarket where the aftermarket sells quality name brand / non OEM branded stuff and its good quality if not surpassing OEM. Im reading a lot about the Ford/ American truck aftermarket and it seems like there are a lt of QA / S.H 1 T brands/ products I need to sift through?
Very few. Most were completely stock
Gold has nothing to do with studs. At least not directly. The Ford Gold coolant is a quality coolant and works great if properly maintained and not used in a 6.0 where its EGR cooler can flash boil the coolant and cause the silicates to fall out. If the silicates ever decide to come out of solution, you get almost immediate plugging of the oil cooler. Regular maintenance of the coolant can help to avoid this, but I know of at least one member who had issues even with regular maintenance. The CAT EC-1 rated coolants do just as good of a job and do not have the problem with the silicates.

The filters question is not as much about quality as functionality. None of the aftermarket oil filters (that I know of) are of the exact same design as the OEM (Motocraft, Ford or Racor) filters. It's just not worth the gamble on a 6.0. There have been a few discussions on the fuel filters and most agree that it's best to use OEM (Motocraft, Ford or Racor). There is one thread where alternative was found to be almost identical and seemed to work fine. It was a bit cheaper too. Maybe someone else remembers better than I and can link it.
Not directly? When your cooler clogs and the egr ruptures and lift the heads, coolant is a cause.

My point is, and I know I don't know everything, but I have yet to see any of the issues with gold coolant. Even very few of the egr and oil cooler replacements we did (who knows how many that was, we turned in over 20 cooler cores one month) had gold coolant.

I replaced the cooler in one guys truck and filled it up. It had an injector bad too so we replaced it. I missed seeing the cup was bad so it came back less than 50 miles later. It already had green coolant!

NONE of the high mileage, low repair trucks that came through had other coolant. They all ran gold. But guess what? They maintained the system.

I just don't see the dread and fear around it. Just maintain it as it is supposed to be done and run what's supposed to be run.

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The Maddawg
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What do you mean by maintain? And what is so bad with ELC?
Every 6 oil changes flush the system (assuming 5k oil changes, or 30k miles) and put new coolant in.

Nothing is bad with it. I just think, going off the amount of trucks and issues I saw at Ford, that the whole "Ford Gold is bad" bandwagon is like wearing a tin hat

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california deplorable
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ford gold works fine if you are set up to do a full flush every30k or at least once a year.
I am just in favor of NOT having to do that when i don't have to is my point.
not saying it can't be run just saying there is an easier way for me

and i like my tin hat :D ... very stylish

a 6.0 is highmaintenance already so if i can do something that changes my maint schedule to 5 years instead of once or twic a year...I'm onit.
of course I am not set up to do flushes here very well my old house I had filters and hot wter access and places to dump the coolant ...
i dont have that hre so i have to go to soeone elses house and bottle up all the drained crap and take it at least a hundred miles to get rid of it and its a pita :dunno:
so with all the maint. i can do here easily enough i would rather be able to put off flushing my coolant again for a couple years at least.
i have to run two hundred feet of hose to even get it to the truck where it parks and no one here recycles coolant. and I am not set up for hot water easily which means adding 40 degree water to a heated system or getting 25 gallons of water bottled and warmed inside if it is winter and i just dont have room or time for it
so again not trying to pee in anyones cornflakes :look:
just sayin if i have a better option for my situation, and i do, I am going to use it.
and my truck likes elc
it also likes 5-40 synth over 15-40 motorcraft oil which was in it when i got it...

one other thing prime guard makes functionall fuel and oil filters for the 6.0 as well as racor or motor craft.
i have had no problems with them desihn is spot on to the racor with 4 fewer pleats...i can live with that for the price break...ut a lot of research went into that and I know toren has another brand he uses without issue.
but as a rule racor or ford are the way to go until you can source one of the other options and stay the hell away from napa gold...they do NOT work in a 6.0

and i am having really good luck with my baldwin bd349 on the BPD filter for oil...
my oil is staying WAY cleaner than it was with the old carquest filters :thumb: it looks bettter at 5k than it did at 1k with the carquest.
i know car quest has got baldwin making the new filters for them but i dont think they are the same quality there are several baldwins that fit the BPD system but the bd349 seems to do a better job with higher flow rate than the others that meet spec but...
there are some real expensive options but i ofund the baldwins work great and are way cheaper than the comparable filters for my set up and i am real happy with the performance i am getting out of them now. there is a BPD filter thread someplace but again i found a reasonable replacement that works better and am very pleased with it

who knew owning a truck wold be so research heavy. :rofl:



oh and #archoilgangbang :sofa: :hehe:
 

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Very few. Most were completely stock

Not directly? When your cooler clogs and the egr ruptures and lift the heads, coolant is a cause.
...
IMO, that's not a direct relationship. Taking care of the system keeps it from happening. I absolutely agree this scenario happens and is probably the most common, but it's not the only one way that headgaskets can become compromised.

I just don't see the dread and fear around it. Just maintain it as it is supposed to be done and run what's supposed to be run.
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International recommends CAT EC-1 rated coolant for the VT365 (the basis for our engine). Ford decided to run the Gold.
 

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california deplorable
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ford makes money on the gold...
just sayin
 

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Fuel it up again Dummy
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Every 6 oil changes flush the system (assuming 5k oil changes, or 30k miles) and put new coolant in.

Nothing is bad with it. I just think, going off the amount of trucks and issues I saw at Ford, that the whole "Ford Gold is bad" bandwagon is like wearing a tin hat

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I agree with both John and Dexter I wouldn't put that crap in my truck if Ford payed me to use it. It's not a good coolant any coolant that has a 50K service is awful 30K intervals tells me there's a problem. Dexter is spot on with the statement International specified a ELC-1 coolant for the engine because it was equipped with a EGR cooler. Not because they just liked the ELC-1 better.
Ford was hell bent on using their special blend of coolant that they invested millions of dollars into developing. If there was no EGR cooler it would do much better but still not as well as a ELC-1 coolant.

One other thing that makes me crazy is how the Gold coolant turns into that funky haze and yellow color and it's not long before you can barely see through the coolant tanks. My coolant tank isstill clear I don't like anything about the stuff and I couldn't flush it out of my current truck soon enough. Soon as I did flush it out of the engine I threw away that stained yellow coolant recovery tank and put in a nice clear one.
Me honestly I like seeing the red coolant in the tank. The Ford mechanics still push the Gold crap and I have argued with a few of them about the problems that it does cause. They are forced to push it and it's the color of money for them because it keeps the trucks coming back for oil and EGR coolers.
I've gone as far as telling one of them that he was a brainwashed fool......

I stay away from Ford for several reasons that subject is one of them. Having a high percentage of horrible mechanics is the main problem I have with them.

I'm done here I think lol.
 

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Smart phone can't to egts's or fuel without a lot of time a patience programming the sensors in.

There are 1000's of 6 leaker on the road not bullet proofed with a few hundred thousand miles on them. Rattlesnake's is one of them.

Sure, get rid of the EGR, but why do the cooler if the deltas are fine. Maybe it was already replaced.

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I've got 15 to 20 buddy that have 6.0 all of them have over 125000mile, there's only 2 of us that are studded.
I can add to that by saying my 04 6.0 has 260010 miles at last Friday's fill up, and it's not studded either. EGR delete, 58v FICM, cold air intake, 4" straight-flow exhaust(no cat or muffler) and a coolant bypass filter setup is all I've done. I plan to do a few more things to it, but that's it right now. Just my $.02 worth.
 
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