[Dicion]

Quick Question for the board:

Assuming Coolant temperature/boiling is not an issue, what is the maximum safe EOT for our engine? Assume it's just sitting there at idle speed, getting hot. No extreme load, no turbo spool no high rpm's. Just sitting there, in a driveway, idling, with the radiator fan unplugged so as to intentionally allow it to heat up.

The reason I'm asking, is I'm trying to get as much water out of my coolant system (waterless) as possible before this trip I'm going on. The Coolant doesn't boil until 370 degrees Fahrenheit, and in fact, the recommended way to get all the water out as soon as possible is to heat the engine up to about 280, and let it boil out. (see page 5 here if you don't believe me: http://www.hrpworld.com/client_images/ecommerce/client_39/cat_header/683_4.pdf) You may think that it is for RaceCar use only, as that is the main site, but that document specifically mentions powerstrokes. I don't think that 280 is a safe number at all, but getting my coolant up to 230 or 240 shouldn't be a problem. The only issue I see, is it will also get the EOT up to about that hot.

Anyways, My ECT's don't hardly ever surpass 200-210 degrees under normal operation, so it will take a long time for the water to boil out on it's own it seems, and I want to get it out of there ASAP, for a few different reasons. Chances are that it's already pretty much all gone, I just want to be sure, but I don't want to run it at 230-240 degrees if there's any chance of it causing any problems.

So, summation: Assuming no load on the engine, idle speed, what is the maximum safe EOT that can be reached without any harm to the system if I am intentionally raising the engine temperature for another purpose.

Edit: I have read elsewhere that the engine begins to Defuel at about 250 degrees. I'm assuming then that that means that is the point at which Ford believes there is a problem. I have also read elsewhere that people have seen 240 degrees during legitimate towing operation, and had no problems. So perhaps keeping it around 240 would be okay for this exercise?

 

[NYC F-350]

The engine defuels with an oil temp of 253°F, and (damn..I am having a brain fart and can not recall the exact coolant temp..) but I know it is below the 235°F mark.. Just sitting at an idle with the fan unplugged, I doubt you will see anywhere near those numbers.
I wouldn't let the truck sit at low idle very long anyway. Have you done the high-idle mod? It raises the idle speed to 1250 or so and is VERY easy to do on an '06.

 

[Evil Eye]

I believe ECT is 235*, but I could be wrong.

 

[amdriven2liv]

Found this list:

Things that will shutdown your 6.0L (PC/ED manual):

Defuel at 221 *F ECT (coolant temperature): PC/ED manual - page 1-34
Defuel at 253 *F EOT (oil temperature): PC/ED manual - page 1-34
Defuel at 4000 rpm's : PC/ED manual - page 1-13
Defuel at 95 mph: PC/ED manual - page 1-15
Defuel at 28.6 psig boost (possibly also need to be at or above 75 mph also)
Defuel when the fuel level in the tank gets very low (well after the low fuel light comes on).

 

[sinner6.0L]

wonder when the standpipe in the filter housing starts to melt

 

[NYC F-350]

I think I read somewhere where that it starts to melt somewhere around 300......

I am surprised that the coolant temp defuel point is the same as when the thermostat fully opens.

 

[Dan747]

I just towed my trailer this weekend and saw 223F on the coolant temp and 240 on the oil temp. Didn't notice any defueling. Was concerned about oil temp until I read here about the de-fuel point being at 253 for the oil.

 

[ZMANN]

I think the waterless coolant and the directions to ring the engine temp to 280 are a terrible ideas

 

[shughey00]

I have read dieselsites instructions on using Evans and there method seems a lot easier than trying to get your engine up to 280.

I have considered using Evans but at the moment sticking with ELC until I change the oil cooler. Running straight Propylene Glycol as a coolant is nothing new in other applications especially where water is a no no. Plus it is not toxic like Ethylene Glycol is.

ANyway I am not pushing the use of it as it is a personal choice but take a look at diesels sites method..pretty straight forward.

One thing though is that I am not aware of anyway to increase the running temp of the 6.0l as they mention to increase mileage.....don't think I have ever seen much higher of a thermostat...?

 

[portcity_gt]

Wouldnt it be easier to pull the drains out of the block ?

 

[JustinOOO9]

My late build 04 does not defuel with the manuals coolant temp. I was towing only a firebird but through some very hilly mountains and curves and got 227 coolant and nothin happened.

I've only seen the coolant get to 227 and oil to 229 while towing. I've also done 101mph and nothing happened.

Are you really that concerned with water in your coolant system?

 

[jetjock15]

"Defuel" is a saftey feature to "prevent" temps from getting hot enough to do damange. Defuel limits engine performance but doesn't "shutdown" anything, I've been there. Seals don't melt tell well above 300s. While its not the same, it's similiar and LS motors in race engines operate in the high 200s low 300s all the time. I've ran my 6.0 at 250 EOT for hours when I had a really heavy load and was pulling cross country. Defuel is hardly noticeable, just when you push on pedal nothing happens but you still maintain pulling power. At 268 EOT the truck goes into "limp" mode, that's where it looses all power and your pulling over. Once the temps come back down and you cycle the key, all is well again. Your not going to able to get your EOTs that hot idling anyway. The process you describe sounds like a bad idea but you mentioned you've done the research so good luck.

 

[ZMANN]

Wouldnt it be easier to pull the drains out of the block ?

agreed
that and compressed air seems like it would get most
plus if you flushed the coolant out with distilled before hand you would have an easier time getting that to evaporate than coolant IMHO

but assuming this is Evans ( the link the OP provided didn't work it went to a retailer of many items home page ) I still don't know anyone who uses in a daily diesel ? it and the whole drilling the cap 0 psi thing would have me concerned if they still do that ?

not to mention cost vs benefit :dunno:

 

[shughey00]

It would be an interesting experiment. Not sure anyone wants to experiment with their truck though.
There would seem to be pro's and cons to using it....the unknown is are the theoretical pros and cons real or perceived. Many threads on the theoretical aspects of using Evans.

Running a no water system would prevent most of the corrosion, also you do not need to pressurize the system in order to increase the boiling point of the water component and I am sure that even though we use a 50/50 mix the water is the weakest link and will boil off at it's natural temp. Hence flash boiling in the EGR cooler. Cavitation is also supposed to be eliminated as well as a few other.

On the other side Propylene Glycol has a higher heat transfer rate than water /coolant mix so it would, in theory, increase the ECT and EOT a bit....in theory. But Evans does not use straight PG I think they add EG and some other special corrosion additives. SO...who knows.

Without any water in the system them slightly higher ECT and EOT ( seems about 7 degree increase is stated) would not be an issue since here is nothing to boil over. Also the system runs at 0 pressure so nothing to blow a line....no boil over.

We used PG straight and in mixes for industrial cooling all the time. Works fine for heavy duty applications...nothing magical about it. We just use it where water simply cannot be used.

I would think that Evans would be one of those things that a user who still runs a GOOD OEM cooler setup and EGR cooler may see some benefits. Theoretically nothing to clog the coolers up again. No water to flash boil in the EGR cooler or Oil cooler hence less risk to blow a head gasket.

However if you installed say a BPD oil cooler and EGR delete then probably a pointless waste of $280.00 since the BPD oil coller and EGR delete would bypass the clogging issue and flash boiling I would think.

Would be interesting to see what the peak ECT and EOT would be pulling heavy since the heat transfer rate of any PG based coolant is higher than a 50/50 mix. Higher is not an issue since there is no water as long as it did not cause the engine to defuel etc.

A good example of a person who could "possibly" see a benefit would be me. My truck has 106K miles. Still on the same stock coolers. Delta is between 9-10 at prescribed speeds...varies on the weather....8 in winter and usually 11 mid hot summer humid day. Now I am not ever planning on installing a BPD cooler setup. Nothing personal against them I just do not have 2400.00 this year to spend and I would need to cold weather option. My system is clean and has been well kept since it was purchased. IPR filter has always had almost no sediment and even when I did the ELC swap i got very minimal sediment with the flush...and again this is the original cooler. Service records show the PO had the coolant system checked regularly and flushed 2 times in 6 years 100K miles.

So, since I will install another OEM cooler at some point and probably an upgraded EGR cooler it would seem, on paper, a viable coolant option to go with Evans. Not saying I will but it is a possibility....not sure yet. In reality the only significant risk is that one would not like the coolants performance and you would have to swap back. That would be a bit expensive of a waste if you think about it. Dump current coolant, install Evans, change back to ELC...at least a $450.00 expense all said and done....oh and a new cap for the overflow tank. But ruining anything I seriously doubt it unless one was a tardo and nothing fixes tardo.

Just what I know from experiences with PG coolants and reading on the Evans.

Bottom line though is what is the reality between theoretical science and reality in a 6.0 system under different loads and driving conditions.

 

[jacksun]

I like more water in my coolant for summer down here in Texas.

 

[WarChild]

I like more water in my coolant for summer down here in Texas.

Here in Fl I like to run more water also. 100° with 100% humidity sucks.