[toast]

Can someone please tell me what the problem is here, and how I can fix it!!



I believe it's called flutter, but under load, usually uphill, in OD, at 13 psi and 20-22psi, the pressure builds 2 lbs, releases, builds, releases super fast, and is annoying as hell, as well as not being as powerful as it should be. It doesnt happen all the time, but on my last trip to Montana, we had to put up with it for an hour and a half, just couldnt get out of it.

This is what I was pulling...

 

[tubular031]

that dont sound good. maybe surge? ill let one of the experts help you out.

 

[saca93]

THAT DOES SOUND BAD I WANT TO KNOW WHAAT IT IS TO . WHAT YEAR IS YOUR TRUCK ?. 6.0 OR 7.3?

 

[!!!PainTrain!!!]

I'm guessing 7.3 becaue of the 2000 truck. Sounds like it is time for a Wicked Wheel or Housing.

 

[cchase]

it sounds like your turbo has big problem, i get hella surge even with the wicked wheel and it doesnt sound like that

 

[toast]

it sounds like your turbo has big problem, i get hella surge even with the wicked wheel and it doesnt sound like that

That was the worst I've heard it, it was really chugging, thats why I took the video, so Powerstroke.org can fix my truck over the Intarweb!! Usually its faster, and not so "heavy" sounding....

 

[vitalidle]

Sounds like surge to me. You have a couple of options. You can get an ats compressor housing, or whicked wheel, or a new bb turbo, or lose the chip! I Know you don't want to lose the chip, so the cheapest fix is a ww but doesn't always fix turbo surge. The only sure fire way is a new housing or a new turbo. The housing is the cheapest of the two, but if you plan on bigger injectors down the road look into a bb turbo.

 

[Marty]

With a load that big... I'd go ahead and get a TN BB turbo... awesome towing turbo!

If you can't afford it, go ahead and get the ATS ported housing...


Both can be installed on the truck in less then an hour..... if they have experience.

 

[toast]

Can someone give me a rundown of what exactly is happening with the surge? Its been a while since I brushed up on my Fluid dynamics. Is caused by restricted flow? Backpressure? Turbo ineffiecency's? Anything to do with the wastegate? How does the tuner cause this? Is it my unique combination of mods? I dont think go over 500hp anytime soon, so I wouldnt need injectors right? Still a dizzle nOOb...

 

[redstroker_2002]

that sounds bad!!! i coud see how it gets annoying fast!!

 

[toddy]

Mines doing the same thing so Im starting to look at options

 

[Marty]

Can someone give me a rundown of what exactly is happening with the surge? Its been a while since I brushed up on my Fluid dynamics. Is caused by restricted flow? Backpressure? Turbo ineffiecency's? Anything to do with the wastegate? How does the tuner cause this? Is it my unique combination of mods? I dont think go over 500hp anytime soon, so I wouldnt need injectors right? Still a dizzle nOOb...

It's common, and 500 is a long ways off...

Lets see if I can explain it... the turbo wheel is trying to draw in more air then it's capable of and it's flexing the blades on the wheel.

 

[Marty]

Here's a google answer...

Surge is the situation when the compressor "spits out" more air than the engine can swallow, which causes a backup of air at the intake and it actually creates reverse-flowing pressure waves that can be very damaging to the turbo. You want to avoid surge at all costs.

 

[tubular031]

Marty - so why not have the waste gate open and let some of that extra air out? Or a BOV like my Subaru has? I know there is no vacuum to actuate the BOV like on a gasser, but there should be something to let it off.

 

[toast]

Here's a google answer...

So I need a compressor that puts out less air? Or a higher flowing exhaust? Or do I need to simply burn more fuel?

 

[d7rxr]

Or less air coming in? Try going back to your factory intake just to see. If you don't give it too much air, it can't blow too much air, correct?

 

[Doakster]

So I need a compressor that puts out less air? Or a higher flowing exhaust? Or do I need to simply burn more fuel?

Well to try and explain this easily, your situation will not be solved by doing any of the questions that you have asked above.

All turbos have a surge limit or characteristic and if anyone tells you otherwise then they are wrong. Maintain pretty much described what surge is. It's when you are putting out more Air flow from the compressor side of the turbo into the engine that can't be use. This creates a stoppage of airflow and causes the compressor wheel to "stall" or slow down, but the compressor wheel doesn't want to slow down because exhaust gases are still driving the turbine and ultimately the compressor. This stalling creates added stress to the shaft connecting the compressor and turbine wheels and can result in shaft failure. The main factor that causes surge in our case is engine load, i.e. towing heavy trailers (in your case), or wide open throttle in some cases.

Unfortunately our stock turbos will operate in there surge range, especially when are running hot tunes. Hot tunes equal more fuel, which equals more flow through the turbine side, which equals more flow (than normal designed for) on the compressor side for a given load.

The solution to this is to do something to the turbo so it will never operated in it's surge zone for all throttle positions and engine loads. Or replace the turbo with one that will never operate in its surge zone on our engine.

Here are some of the options that have worked we'll in the past for people.

1) Replace the compressor wheel with a Wicked Wheel, this has not always completely eliminated surge in all cases. ($60)

2) Replace the compressor housing, which will change the flow characteristics of the compressor, an ATS compressor housing will do this and has been known to completely eliminate surge very well. The compressor does not change the air flow to the point you will see better or worse performance it just puts the turbo out of its surge range like we want. ($400)

3) Replace the turbo will one that will not operate in it's surge range, i.e. the turbonetic BB drop in, Garrett 38r BB drop in are the most common and will not surge, of course this is a much more pricey option, but you will notice a good increase in pulling power and performance.

Well that's enough of me rambling, hope I haven't confused you and this helped a little.

 

[toast]

Thanks guys, it looks like I will need the BB drop in. Whats the difference between the Turbonetic BB, and the garrett 38r BB?? The truck is parked until I decide to go wheeling, and 90% of the time its got that trailer, with that load, so I want a tow friendly turbo.

What hp gains can be expected with these? Do I need a new intercooler then? The truck is only getting 6.5-8 mpg loaded, and 11 empty currently. I think my TC is not putting the power to the wheels, but will a turbo help economy?

 

[sirnunya]

take off the intake and see if you have any movement in the compressor wheel. sounds like its banging around in the housing. i dont know how youre getting 11mpg empty, i get better than that lifted on 38" tires. 6.5mpg loaded sounds like gas v8 economy.

 

[moore20017.3]

The ATS Housing has anti-surge porting around the inducer bore. These slots allow pressurized air to flow back through housing (instead of through inducer) eliminating the noise you are hearing. It serves as a pressure stabilizer. The turbo is still operating in its choke zone this just reduces the effects. The downside to this style is that it adds a slight amount more lag.
The 1.0 exhaust housing will also help a hell of a lot with egt's and help to reduce turbo speed at low rpms and lowering back pressure. I would save the money and go with a bigger turbo. 66-68mm would be good for pulling.
I had two 99-03 and towed alot of heavy long loads, they both had over 250K on them when I sold them and stock turbo on both. Many hours of hard core surging just like that with no turbo trouble. The large turbo I am running now will absolutely not surge with my current setup. But the whisle is louder than the surge ever was.