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Discussion Starter #1
So I just picked up a new to me 2006 f250 with 115,000 miles on it. I drove it for a couple of weeks, drove it down too close to empty and accidentally ran it out of fuel.. I’m an idiot.. Anyway had AAA tow it to a shop fixed the no fuel issue and had the oil changed and it’s like new. Except it takes longer to start in the morning now or really anytime during the day. I have plenty of power when driving on the road which leads me away from a high pressure oil leak, although I’m not sure what else it could be.. any suggestions?
 

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An update on this.. I parked the truck for maybe 5 to 10 minutes when I went in the store and came out and it started right up quickly like it used to.. if I leave it for 30 minutes then it’s like I’m cold starting it in the morning. Any thoughts on this? Could it be oil change related or something else? FICM is reading 48 volts consistently so I don’t think it’s that.. I’m just confused with what’s going on
 

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Ok another update.. Took it to the dealership to take care of something else and had them run a diag on it. It came back with a high ICP pressure at idle. I don't remember the exact code of it, but he said that was their main concern. This seems like it may be leading them in the wrong direction because I have a tuner on the truck and I've read that it will spoof the electrical readout of the ICP so that it can run hotter. They were not able to find anything else wrong with it, and there were no other codes that came up. Does anyone have any thoughts or input on this? I don't want them to tear into the truck and dump a ton of money if this is just something that won't go away or is the new normal.. They are leaning towards injectors but I don't feel like that could be the case because its running well.. Really stumped.
 

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FICM should be 48 consistent, not dipping a bit, for KOEO, starting, and KOER.

What is the ICP and IPR on the long start? Using the monitor is about all you can easily do except the bubble test.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
FICM should be 48 consistent, not dipping a bit, for KOEO, starting, and KOER.

What is the ICP and IPR on the long start? Using the monitor is about all you can easily do except the bubble test.
The FICM only occasionally dips to 47.5 or 48.5 but not that often.. The ICP from what I monitor goes to 30, 60 and then cranks so I know it reaches the 500psi minimum on it. I would have to check on the IPR.. I had the oil and fuel filters changed when I had it in the shop, could that be a potential cause? If I cycle the key on multiple times before I start it and let the glowplugs run their cycle, it tends to start like it used to. I read somewhere that a bad seal on the secondary fuel filter with the o ring could lead to a low fuel pressure situation that would take it longer to start, but there are no codes for low fuel pressure.. Is that worth checking out? I will take a video tomorrow morning on the IPR and ICP to compare on starting it.

I plan on going to get new fuel filters and pulling the secondary to see if the o ring was replaced or if they decided to leave the old one on later tonight..
 

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Ficm is fine.

What youre looking at for ICP on the no start is less than 500 psi while cranking which means a high pressure iil problem. At 85% ipr, the valve is pushing as much hpop as it can, so start should be 85%.

Fuel pressure has no sensor. You'd need to physically attach one to get a reading. As far as going straight to nrw fuel filters, that's a $50 guess, but looking at it is free.

If you're tuned, you can ask the last shop if they returned it to stock. I've had a shop flash my truck when they changed the ficm.
 

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Since you say cycling the key several times seems to help, I would suggest looking at the orings on the fuel filter cap's -- be sure to grease the oring so it doesn't try to roll when tightening the cap -- air 'can' leak into the filter when the engine is off, but fuel should also leak at the threads -- that would charge a bubble of air into the system when you try to start, cycling the key would 'bleed' some of the air back to the tank thru the small bleeder in the filter base

When you remove the upper filter cap, the housing should remain a little more than half way full -- this proves the anti drainback valve
Have a helper turn the key with the upper filter cap off -- the housing should fill in 2-3 seconds -- this proves pump flow

Still need a pressure gauge as @ChrisSki mentioned -- some use a filter cap with a tapped hole, there is a factory test port in the left front corner of the filter base, you need a metric fitting
 

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Since you say cycling the key several times seems to help, I would suggest looking at the orings on the fuel filter cap's -- be sure to grease the oring so it doesn't try to roll when tightening the cap -- air 'can' leak into the filter when the engine is off, but fuel should also leak at the threads -- that would charge a bubble of air into the system when you try to start, cycling the key would 'bleed' some of the air back to the tank thru the small bleeder in the filter base

When you remove the upper filter cap, the housing should remain a little more than half way full -- this proves the anti drainback valve
Have a helper turn the key with the upper filter cap off -- the housing should fill in 2-3 seconds -- this proves pump flow

Still need a pressure gauge as @ChrisSki mentioned -- some use a filter cap with a tapped hole, there is a factory test port in the left front corner of the filter base, you need a metric fitting
I picked up new filters but have not installed them yet just in case thats not the problem. I will take a look at them today in a while once it stops raining. When I am KOEO, the fuel pump stays on for what seems like 20-30 seconds before it shutsoff so I would assume that would mean that it should be the issue, but obviously checking it would confirm that. I will look into the pressure gauge, I knew that I would need to attach a gauge but the diagnosis from the shop that did the oil change stated that it was low fuel pressure so my guess is they tested it like you guys are saying..

I also took video of my tuner gauges this morning on a cold start and on the other starts so far during the day.. ICP was reading pretty high around the mid 950 mark but started to drop once it was warming up.. I am assuming this is normal with the oil warming up and the tune tricking the PCM with the pressure so it performs better? It dopped to 630 or so at idle once I drove it down the street. It was about 70 degrees this morning when I started it up. I will update once I have a chance to look at the filters.
 

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If the shop said fuel pressure, here's a video of full diagnosis:
About the only easy thing to do after what you and hydro mentioned is the Blue Spring upgrade for the upper fuel bowl, and that costs about $75. If it is low pressure, that can cause the injectors taking more fuel than the fuel pump can provide and ruin the injectors. If you watch the video, IMO full diagnosis may be at a point I would think about bringing it to a good diesel shop that knows 8.0s versus buying a special tool. If the shop you brought it to is a diesel shop with 6.0s parked out front and reviews are good, than that could be the place.
 

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If the shop said fuel pressure, here's a video of full diagnosis:

About the only easy thing to do after what you and hydro mentioned is the Blue Spring upgrade for the upper fuel bowl, and that costs about $75. If it is low pressure, that can cause the injectors taking more fuel than the fuel pump can provide and ruin the injectors. If you watch the video, IMO full diagnosis may be at a point I would think about bringing it to a good diesel shop that knows 8.0s versus buying a special tool. If the shop you brought it to is a diesel shop with 6.0s parked out front and reviews are good, than that could be the place.
I apologize, I am not doing the best job of explaining things.. When I had it towed to the shop after it stalled, they said it was low fuel pressure because I had run it out of fuel with the gauge being inaccurate.. Different worry. The previous owner had the blue spring upgrade installed but there is no issue with low fuel pressure anymore since I filled up the tank again. I appreciate the suggestion and if it turns out that it is not the fuel filters causing it, then I will definitely have them run a fuel pressure test on it at the shop.
 

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Ok so I pulled out the secondary fuel filter, it had some grease from the o-ring pushing through between the cap and the housing, so I cleaned some of that up without taking any off of the o-ring itself. It was at least half way filled up with fuel when I pulled it out. I cleaned up the oring, made sure it was seated right and reinstalled. Primed the system and it fired right up. Took a 15 minute drive through town and when I went to fire it up after the glow plug light went off, it took the same amount of time that caused me to look into the problem..

I am going to have the shop do a fuel pressure check on it to make sure there are no leaks, I saw a pretty wet spot on the drivers side frame that looks like it could have a fuel line possibly leaking, but I am going to double check it tomorrow morning before I head over there.. Otherwise I may just take this as the new normal for the truck. I also have some actual numbers from the cold start this morning that I was curious about.

ECT: 78
EOT: 81.37
Voltage: Between 11.58 and 11.68 before starting and then started climbing to around 13.5 after idling for a minute.
FICM: Started at 45.5 when I keyed on, and then rose to 47.50 before I started.. Once started it was 47.50 to 48.5. This was the first time I noticed this since owning the truck.
ICP: Jumped right to around 560 and cranked over and rose up to 1500 before dropping to around 900 like I mentioned in my previous post.

I appreciate all of the help and ideas so far, I hope to have this figured out in the next couple of days fingers crossed.
 

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If the voltage is 11.5 st the battery without the key on, than I would lean towards batteries being bad. If so, the crank should seem week. If you turn the key on and see, that, than that is perfectly normal since turning the glow plugs on is like powering an o en off a couple of 12 volt batteries—requires a lot of power.

For the FICM volts, I’m going to reserve comment, I’m not sure 45.5 is bad; 42 would certainly be. I’m sure you’ll get another comment.
 

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If the voltage is 11.5 st the battery without the key on, than I would lean towards batteries being bad. If so, the crank should seem week. If you turn the key on and see, that, than that is perfectly normal since turning the glow plugs on is like powering an o en off a couple of 12 volt batteries—requires a lot of power.

For the FICM volts, I’m going to reserve comment, I’m not sure 45.5 is bad; 42 would certainly be. I’m sure you’ll get another comment.
I agree. It is with the key on, which I figured the glow plugs drew a significant amount. It cranks quickly, but its definitely on my list of things to check tomorrow. The FICM being that low was also when the batteries were reading low, but it bounced up shortly after I turned the key on.
 

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An update now.. Ford kinda screwed me, I dropped the truck off this morning only to find out that they did not get any of the work done on it that was supposed to be done by the end of the day today. I did get the full write up of the diag they did on the engine. It was pulling a P2288 code for ICP too high while running. My ICP like I said sits around 630-650 when idling at operating temp. But can get up to as high as 1500 when I first start it before immediately dipping below 1000. The oil that the first shop changed into it was 15W 40. I have no clue what oil the PO was running before it was changed. Could that possibly be the cause of the high ICP? I read thin oil could cause it, but I thought that 15W 40 was on the thicker side unless I have fuel that is thinning it down.. I plan on pulling the ICP sensor tomorrow morning to see if thats the cause, but other than that I am completely thrown off by this..
 

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Those pressures are not far off, but the spike at start is a little high(and that may when the code is set) -- I think change out the ICP sensor -- the only way to know for sure is to install a tee fitting and a gauge, to "know" the injection pressure reading is correct
 

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So I know that I I did not update since over a month ago, but I was still dealing with the issue and with limited time on my hands. I took it to another shop that was well known for some other work and had them take a look at the issue I was having. He said it could be fuel sending unit/fuel pump since it was run out of fuel, or it could be the IPR just has some crap on the filter and that could cause it.. He said that he wouldn't pay the money to get it fixed if it started, which I sort of agree with him, but it still bugs me. I decided to dig deeper and I have heard of trucks not starting right with some oil filter brands, so I decided to take a look at what oil filter the shop had used when they did the oil change. Pulled it out and it was made in Korea, so not Motorcraft. I swapped the filter for a Motorcraft and the starts seem to get better. I will be doing my first cold one here shortly on my way to work, but I had some questions that I saw from another thread when researching this problem..

powerstroke.org/forum/6-0-motor-problems/1188065-6-0-long-crank.html

They mention that the OP needs to do some WOT runs to get the remaining air out of the system. Is that something that I need to complete being that I believe it was affecting the HPO system, or is that totally unrelated? I was still getting some longer than normal starts yesterday after the change which is why I am questioning this. I really hope that this is the cause because I am tired of trying to figure out this gremlin that showed up from this shop.. I guess thats inherent with me getting into the 6.0 life.
 

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Several posts above advise to put a fuel pressure gauge on it. That doesn't mean ICP pressure, it means fuel pressure. You need to have one. The blue spring does not guarantee proper pressure. Many more things can cause low fuel pressure (or you might even see some unusually high pressure).

Personally I wouldn't want MY FICM to go to 45.5 volts when cranking. That said, the FICM could be having issues with the logic board. Even at 48 volts on the power board, the logic side can cause no-start issues.

Lastly, I would want to do a bubble test just to see if there might be an injector leaking combustion gas backwards.
 

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Several posts above advise to put a fuel pressure gauge on it. That doesn't mean ICP pressure, it means fuel pressure. You need to have one. The blue spring does not guarantee proper pressure. Many more things can cause low fuel pressure (or you might even see some unusually high pressure).

Personally I wouldn't want MY FICM to go to 45.5 volts when cranking. That said, the FICM could be having issues with the logic board. Even at 48 volts on the power board, the logic side can cause no-start issues.

Lastly, I would want to do a bubble test just to see if there might be an injector leaking combustion gas backwards.

Sounds like a plan. I will work this weekend or next to get a fuel pressure gauge setup on it and see what it says. I don't have a no-start issue, it just takes a lot longer to crank it and actually turn over than it did previously. When I have a second set of eyes, I will also do the bubble test because that was an area that I was thinking about as well.
 

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" When I have a second set of eyes, I will also do the bubble test because that was an area that I was thinking about as well"

The bubble test is done with the key off -- and using the starter jumper wire

should be easy enough todo by your self
 

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" When I have a second set of eyes, I will also do the bubble test because that was an area that I was thinking about as well"

The bubble test is done with the key off -- and using the starter jumper wire

should be easy enough todo by your self
Yea, I've seen videos of it before and I looked it up shortly after their post and realized that it was a one man task.. I will check on it tomorrow afternoon then and report back. Thanks!
 
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