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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For those of us who would prefer to keep our perfectly good working injectors in that condition is a nozzle upgrade an option? I noticed both DIY and Diesel Care sell nozzle upgrades. Diesel Care says you can get 100hp from their nozzle upgrade which to me seems it can be a simple and somewhat worry free upgrade. Im a bit leary of pulling injectors apart or for that matter having them pulled apart. Can anyone comment on possible power gains from nozzles, and if nozzles make a difference enough that the current HPOP wont be able to keep up making it a moot point?
 

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If you have a 99+ truck you have split shots and I would not put nozzles on them without making them single shots. The HPOP won't keep up in stock form let alone modified.

If you have perfectly good working injectors doesn't mean they will be once
you tear them apart and replace the nozzles.

I would make them single shots before replacing the nozzles.
 

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John Wood Nut Swinger
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You can not make an additional 100hp by taking a stock AD injector and put different nozzles on it. Like Soggy said, That is how a 160-180cc single shot injector is made from and that adds 30-50hp. Performance Injectors for 7.3L Ford Power Strokes

You need a set of modified A codes to make 100hp over stock.

All the above info is for single shots, of course.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I want power/reliability with as little invested as possible (don't we all)

Im thinking rebuild the turbo with a fresh wicked wheel, and non wastegated 1.0 A/R exhaust housing.

Also get my stock early 99 injectors 120cc converted to stage 1 (160cc single shots no nozzle upgrade) $700 range vs. $1200 range. PS truck is needing glow plugs so it only makes sense to do something with the injectors when I crack it open.

I guess the big question is will the single shot conversion make a big enough difference that the upgraded nozzles arent really all that necessary? Ideally I would upgrade at the most to a 17* HPOP but only if necessary.

I already have turboback, 6.0IC, Water Meth, intake, TW chip, John Wood valve body, crossover hose, and Dino Fuel Alternatives kackle cure kit (poor mans regulated return)
 

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What year is your truck?
 

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I want power/reliability with as little invested as possible (don't we all)

Im thinking rebuild the turbo with a fresh wicked wheel, and non wastegated 1.0 A/R exhaust housing.

Also get my stock early 99 injectors 120cc converted to stage 1 (160cc single shots no nozzle upgrade) $700 range vs. $1200 range. PS truck is needing glow plugs so it only makes sense to do something with the injectors when I crack it open.

I guess the big question is will the single shot conversion make a big enough difference that the upgraded nozzles arent really all that necessary? Ideally I would upgrade at the most to a 17* HPOP but only if necessary.

I already have turboback, 6.0IC, Water Meth, intake, TW chip, John Wood valve body, crossover hose, and Dino Fuel Alternatives kackle cure kit (poor mans regulated return)

If you want to talk turbocharger open another thread so we don't blow this off topic.


I don't think everyone needs big oil but at minimum you want a good/new 17* HPOP. I did big oil on my Ex with stock injectors and didn't notice that big of a difference. I have since change my stock AD's out to singles stock nozzles and didn't notice that big of a difference. However, my 95 has went from 90cc injectors to stage 1's/160cc to 235cc hybrids. So the truck is lighter and alot faster than the heavier Excursion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Seems like splits to singles with no nozzle upgrade with an extra 40cc of fuel in these trucks should account for a decent amount of noticeable power. Look at the diff between stock AA's and AB's (90cc vs. 120cc). 30cc seemingly makes a world of difference in every way. As well as from what people say the diff from AB's to AD's (120cc vs. 140cc) is very obvious in stock trim and thats only 20cc (half my proposed upgrade to singles without nozzle upgrade)
 

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Seems like splits to singles with no nozzle upgrade with an extra 40cc of fuel in these trucks should account for a decent amount of noticeable power. Look at the diff between stock AA's and AB's (90cc vs. 120cc). 30cc seemingly makes a world of difference in every way. As well as from what people say the diff from AB's to AD's (120cc vs. 140cc) is very obvious in stock trim and thats only 20cc (half my proposed upgrade to singles without nozzle upgrade)


Anyone that told you there was a SOP differance in power from AB's to AD's is lieing.

And the problem with going from AA's to AB's or AD's is HPO volume. You will loose HP and gain smoke throwing a set of AD's in a truck built for AA's without adding a 17 degree pump...

Single shot is the only way to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Anyone that told you there was a SOP differance in power from AB's to AD's is lieing.

And the problem with going from AA's to AB's or AD's is HPO volume. You will loose HP and gain smoke throwing a set of AD's in a truck built for AA's without adding a 17 degree pump...

Single shot is the only way to go.
Ok well on the note of going to singles which is really my main point of interest now, how much difference will there be in power with a 160cc single conversion with stock nozzles on a 15* hpop in my early 99. Of course the programming will be done to correct for singles.
 

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Ok well on the note of going to singles which is really my main point of interest now, how much difference will there be in power with a 160cc single conversion with stock nozzles on a 15* hpop in my early 99. Of course the programming will be done to correct for singles.

Set of stage 1's will get you to about 350hp... stage 2's will get you to 400...
 

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AB injectors flow between 130 and 135cc. ADs flow between 135 and 140cc. So there really isn't much difference in them. The AAs do flow 90 cc so going from a 90cc injector to a 160cc injector is a big jump. That's over a 75% increase.

The nice thing about you having the AB injectors is those are what you need to start with to make a set of 160cc singles. The 160cc singles use the exact same amount of oil as your stock 135cc split shots do.

Changing nozzles doesn't make the injector consume any more oil at all what so ever. The only thing it may do is because the fuel can get out of a larger nozzle faster it may make the piston move a little quicker and you may loose a slight bit of pressure because of it but in order for that to make any difference you'd have to make a big jump in nozzle size.

As for just putting larger nozzles on your AB injectors I don't think you'll see any big gains from it. You might see some hp increase because you are getting the fuel out faster but if your programmer is already getting all the fuel out of the current injectors then you won't be getting any more fuel out. However if your current programer isn't getting all the fuel out of the injectors now then adding bigger nozzles will make it more likely to get all the fuel out so you may see some hp gains in that case. The chances are that with the programmer you have it's leaving something on the table where if you got a good chip it would be maximizing what you got.

I think Joes hp numbers are a bit on the generous side but at the upper end of what you could make provided you had good oil supply, good fuel supply, good air supply, and a very good tune on your chip.

As for your turbo if it's not bad there is no point in rebuilding it. Unless the blades are nicked or bent up and needing replacement there's just no point. It should already have the "wicked wheel" in it as that was the stock wheel on the '94-early '99 trucks. If you don't have any surge issues and your EGTs are fine the 1.0 housing isn't needed either. You could check your drive pressures and if they are quite a bit more than your boost pressures the 1.0 housing would help but I doubt it's needed for what you got. Check the drives pressures again after you get your injectors and see where they are at. At that time if you need it then go for the housing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
AB injectors flow between 130 and 135cc. ADs flow between 135 and 140cc. So there really isn't much difference in them. The AAs do flow 90 cc so going from a 90cc injector to a 160cc injector is a big jump. That's over a 75% increase.

The nice thing about you having the AB injectors is those are what you need to start with to make a set of 160cc singles. The 160cc singles use the exact same amount of oil as your stock 135cc split shots do.

Changing nozzles doesn't make the injector consume any more oil at all what so ever. The only thing it may do is because the fuel can get out of a larger nozzle faster it may make the piston move a little quicker and you may loose a slight bit of pressure because of it but in order for that to make any difference you'd have to make a big jump in nozzle size.

As for just putting larger nozzles on your AB injectors I don't think you'll see any big gains from it. You might see some hp increase because you are getting the fuel out faster but if your programmer is already getting all the fuel out of the current injectors then you won't be getting any more fuel out. However if your current programer isn't getting all the fuel out of the injectors now then adding bigger nozzles will make it more likely to get all the fuel out so you may see some hp gains in that case. The chances are that with the programmer you have it's leaving something on the table where if you got a good chip it would be maximizing what you got.

I think Joes hp numbers are a bit on the generous side but at the upper end of what you could make provided you had good oil supply, good fuel supply, good air supply, and a very good tune on your chip.

As for your turbo if it's not bad there is no point in rebuilding it. Unless the blades are nicked or bent up and needing replacement there's just no point. It should already have the "wicked wheel" in it as that was the stock wheel on the '94-early '99 trucks. If you don't have any surge issues and your EGTs are fine the 1.0 housing isn't needed either. You could check your drive pressures and if they are quite a bit more than your boost pressures the 1.0 housing would help but I doubt it's needed for what you got. Check the drives pressures again after you get your injectors and see where they are at. At that time if you need it then go for the housing.
I guess my biggest question all along is how much of a difference in actual driving performance is made from the change to 160cc singles from a set of AB's?

I like the idea of getting more fuel in the motor and at the same time not using more HPO to get it there.

I get the feeling my TW chip is very close to maxing out all the fuel parameters.

The turbo on my truck does of course have the WW as its eary 99 as discussed...was just thinking of doing a rebuild and fresh wheel while I replaced the exhaust housing. Im unfamiliar with a method of checking drive pressure for comparison.

I do have a Pac Brake on the turbo which Im sure is decently restrictive, not to mention I don't use it one bit and I'm pretty confident I never will. So my goal was to remove Pac Brake, and sell it for cash to help fund the larger housing and rebuild kit.

So are stage 1 singles a worthwhile upgrade for my truck? Keep in mind $800 worth of upgrade.
 

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I've got a '96 so I had singles from the get go so I can't personally say what the difference was going from a stock AB to a stage I. But everyone that I recall who has gone to single shots has reported better throttle response, more power, and better mileage. IMHO they are all around a better injector. One of the problems with the split shots is you can precisely control when the pilot shot begins but not when the main shot begins because the main shot timing depends on how fast the plunger travels down the barrel. When in actuality you need more precise control over the main shot and the pilot shot is less critical. IMHO the only thing split shot injectors are good for is for being a little quieter and maybe having a little better emissions. Also to convert your AB injectors you'll need all new plunger and barrels. Make sure that $800 includes that. I'm thinking it doesn't. Who's injectors are you looking at?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Jim's DIY injector kit at diy-injectors.com.

"The DIY Stage-1C Kit converts your AB Split Shot injectors into 160cc Single Shot Stage-1's. This Kit uses your stock AB Pistons with our new Single Shot Plunger & Barrels to yield 160cc of fuel per stroke"

$685 shipped
 

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I was wondering about the same thing, so I am subscribing. I have basically the same set up as boost creep. well, the turbo upgrades hes talked about are already done.
 

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John Wood Nut Swinger
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I've got a '96 so I had singles from the get go so I can't personally say what the difference was going from a stock AB to a stage I. But everyone that I recall who has gone to single shots has reported better throttle response, more power, and better mileage. IMHO they are all around a better injector. One of the problems with the split shots is you can precisely control when the pilot shot begins but not when the main shot begins because the main shot timing depends on how fast the plunger travels down the barrel. When in actuality you need more precise control over the main shot and the pilot shot is less critical. IMHO the only thing split shot injectors are good for is for being a little quieter and maybe having a little better emissions. Also to convert your AB injectors you'll need all new plunger and barrels. Make sure that $800 includes that. I'm thinking it doesn't. Who's injectors are you looking at?
Yes, it includes all the parts necessary.
 

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Jim's DIY injector kit at diy-injectors.com.

"The DIY Stage-1C Kit converts your AB Split Shot injectors into 160cc Single Shot Stage-1's. This Kit uses your stock AB Pistons with our new Single Shot Plunger & Barrels to yield 160cc of fuel per stroke"

$685 shipped

:hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe: Wow that quote right there from his web site is a good one. If the injectors actually flowed "160cc of fuel per stroke" they'd flow like 160,000cc of fuel when flowed like everyone elses. The cc of the injectors is measured over 1000 strokes. NOT per stroke! :hehe::hehe: Anyone with an actual flow bench would know that.

For that price it sounds like you are getting reman plunger and barrels or he's just giving the parts away at cost. Remember guys the saying "you get what you pay for" especially holds true for Powerstroke injectors. If you don't have the proper tools (the tool kit runs in the $650 range), a flow bench to test them (runs in the $15,000 range), or the experience to know what you are doing (comes with doing hundreds of injectors), you're rolling the dice.
 

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John Wood Nut Swinger
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If everybody was made of money, Jim would not be in business. The fact here is that Jim offers kits that prove to work well and are very cost affective.
 
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