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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all, new here but been lurking for years fixing friends 6.0s with your help. I finally got my own headache late 04 CCSB for a good price because it didn't run and had to patch up a few things just to get it running. Now it runs decent but I'm at a point where I decided to keep truck and invest some $ into it and gain some performance.

Main use for this is a DD, then occasional camping trips with a pop up camper in the back, fully loaded no more than 1500lbs. Once in a blue moon tow a trailer up to 8k

My goals are reliability, good MPGs and massive low end torque. High HP# are not my concern. I will keep the stock air filter because there is no better filtration available, and plenty of power can be made with the stock unit

The only mods on truck are a BPD 58v 6ph FICM with PHP Hercules tune and a Mechman 240A alternator.

I know that certain mods complement each other well and others don't so that's why I'm here looking for input. I do not have an unlimited budget either, but if I'm dropping the coin, might as well get best bang for the buck.

I need new injectors, turbo rebuilt, replace the dual outlet Gibson cat back exhaust and do a PCM tune. At the same time the engine will loose the EGR, new oil cooler, updated turbo drain, new t-stat, water pump, coolant filter, updated standpipes and dummy plugs, dieselsite billet hpop and of course head gaskets probably Fel-Pro and studs.

Injectors: Stock motorcraft rebuilds or go up in size to 155cc? 175cc? stock nozzle or 30%? Many say OEM only, new spool valve and solenoids, etc. Others seem to give good marks to Warren injectors above other rebuilders. Is that the case?

Turbo Rebuild. The truck still has the original, untouched turbo from what I can tell. I don't want the 03 whistle either. I will tackle this myself but want input on which compressor wheel to use. From my research I've found MTW, Riff Raff, KC, wicked wheel and maybe Barder offer compressor wheels. which one would work best with either of the injectors above? which rebuild kit is has the best parts? Any other things to consider while doing the turbo rebuild to get the most out of it?

Exhaust: will do a full turbo back system. 3.5 or 4" downpipe. 4" or 5" tubing. I do need to run a muffler. I've read that for some reason some people loose some bottom end with a 4" down pipe, not much is mentioned performance wise about the tubing after the downpipe except a 5 sounds deeper. MBRP, Sinister, Diamond Eye, AFE etc?

PCM tuning Finally, who can make all these parts work well together through tuning. Ideally the PCM should be able to set all emissions readiness monitors to complete, no soft codes, pending or incomplete monitors, so CA emissions testing will be less of an issue.

I think I covered all bulletproofing aspects and mild performance increases, but if I haven't please chime in. Thanks
 

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I'm interested in this as well, as I'm in a pretty similar situation. I'm in the middle of a full longblock rebuild with pretty much the same goals, although a good bit more pulling of heavy(ish) load for me (2-car trailer). But my rebuild means I'm dealing with a motor bored .030" over.

My thinking was that I dont want to overload the transmission, so limiting the injectors to 155cc should be about my limit. From there, I figured a wicked wheel 2 would be a good matchup. It probably wont add a ton more power, but should help build torque, keep EGTs lower, etc. I'm open to other opinions on that.

Not sure about exhaust or tuning yet. I'm going to port match my OEM intake manifold and exhaust headers. I also plan on using a MBRP up pipe.

You guys also have me looking to replace the cam while I'm at it. Any suggestions that would match up with these goals well?
 

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It is What IT is
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I think you guys are on the right track as to what you want.
But what you need (and you don't mention that you have) first and foremost is a way to monitor you temperatures (EGTs, EOT, ECT, tranny etc) and your fuel pressure.

So do that first. All the other mods won't matter if you don't monitor the vitals.
 

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It is What IT is
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I assume you are doing a cab off upgrades so do the EGT probe then.

and yes monitor your fuel pressure. Low FP and water will kill your (new) injectors.
 

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I would get rid of the hercules tune if you plan to run cool/clean... ESPECIALLY if you want to tow. If you add an SCT tuner to hercules then it will run SUPER smokey on anything larger than a tow tune.

No need for larger injectors if you plan on staying with a stock turbo... even with a billet wheel. Stock injectors have plenty of fuel for your needs. Larger injectors will just become smokier with a stock turbo, unless you detune them... but why get larger injectors if you just plan on detuning them.


No exhaust will really make any more power than others... don't go cheapo if you live in an area with rust problems. Get a good material that is resistant to rust.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The truck came with glowshift gauges. Has EGT, FUEL PSI, TRANS and BOOST so some basics are covered. I checked the EOT/ECT delta and it's about 8 degrees after a long cruise. I plan on replacing them with an edge.

It seemed to me from reading on the forums that people with even slightly larger injectors noticed a performance increase. Is that because they had bad injectors to begin with?

As far as the Hercules tune, I talked to PHP over the phone, told them what I had my intended use and they recommended that tune. I thought it was a little too much too, but I figured they knew best. I just got the ficm back in the mail so I'll try it out and watch temps for now. I can't really change it unless I send it back.

Thanks for the replies so far, keep em coming.
 

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The Silent Service
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When you have a moment, read through my build thread in my sig.

I cover a number of your questions there.

To give you a more exact recommendation - Let me know what HP / TOR number (and your maximum towing loads) you are looking for, and how much work you want to invest in the transmission.
 

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The truck came with glowshift gauges. Has EGT, FUEL PSI, TRANS and BOOST so some basics are covered. I checked the EOT/ECT delta and it's about 8 degrees after a long cruise. I plan on replacing them with an edge.

It seemed to me from reading on the forums that people with even slightly larger injectors noticed a performance increase. Is that because they had bad injectors to begin with?

As far as the Hercules tune, I talked to PHP over the phone, told them what I had my intended use and they recommended that tune. I thought it was a little too much too, but I figured they knew best. I just got the ficm back in the mail so I'll try it out and watch temps for now. I can't really change it unless I send it back.

Thanks for the replies so far, keep em coming.

You 100% right that you get more power with larger injectors... but you said you were not interested in a High HP build. Adding more fuel to a stock turbo will create a lot more smoke at WOT, it can quickly turn into a freight trane unless you pull a lot of fuel, but why get bigger injectors just to pull fuel if you are not chasing high hp. You want to pair the right injectors with the right turbo. For example there is no reason to have a big stage 3 turbo on stock injectors... at the same time there is no need for much larger injectors on stock turbo unless you want a lot more smoke at WOT.




MOST custom SCT tuners do not like pairing their tunes with the hercules FICM tune... they tend to run really hot and smokey. I would also NOT recommend ANY towing on the hercules tuning. You also cannot use that hercules tune with larger injectors because it will be INCREDIBLY smokey.
 

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if you aren't chasing HP keep the stock injectors and go up a size in the turbo department.

if you don't want your 03 whistle, you can get a turbo from 05-07
 

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If you really dont want whistle, you can always go non-vgt... say a s362fmw or something.

I know a couple guys on here run that with stock injectors and like it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
When you have a moment, read through my build thread in my sig.

I cover a number of your questions there.

To give you a more exact recommendation - Let me know what HP / TOR number (and your maximum towing loads) you are looking for, and how much work you want to invest in the transmission.
I'll be doing some reading for sure, thanks for the links. I only plan to swap pans and filter for 08 up and run amsoil. I don't want to get into internals, and I want to keep engine at a level that the trans can live at. Towing is not really in my planned future, but maybe occasional one car trailer 7-8k or a small boat. I think most tunes have some sort of shift strategy and pressure control modification, right?

if you aren't chasing HP keep the stock injectors and go up a size in the turbo department.

if you don't want your 03 whistle, you can get a turbo from 05-07
I was under the impression that 04.5 turbos were a mixture of parts and had the 13 blade low whistle exducer and larger 03 style inducer but I'm not sure.

You 100% right that you get more power with larger injectors... but you said you were not interested in a High HP build. Adding more fuel to a stock turbo will create a lot more smoke at WOT, it can quickly turn into a freight trane unless you pull a lot of fuel, but why get bigger injectors just to pull fuel if you are not chasing high hp. You want to pair the right injectors with the right turbo. For example there is no reason to have a big stage 3 turbo on stock injectors... at the same time there is no need for much larger injectors on stock turbo unless you want a lot more smoke at WOT.




MOST custom SCT tuners do not like pairing their tunes with the hercules FICM tune... they tend to run really hot and smokey. I would also NOT recommend ANY towing on the hercules tuning. You also cannot use that hercules tune with larger injectors because it will be INCREDIBLY smokey.
I want it to run clean. Some haze at wot is fine, but as long as it's not rolling coal the whole way. Seems inefficient. What I meant by performance increase was that the people that had say 175s with stock nozzles felt the engine had better throttle response and better bottom end tq, along with increased top end. I'm not opposed to more HP, just want to focus on bottom end and throttle response, and higher HP than stock will be a side effect.

I'm sort of in a bind though since I used the mail in option to tune the ficm. The PHP rep I spoke with said hercules will be perfect for best tq, MPG and throttle response, if I don't tow over 10k, even with larger injectors and up to 30% nozzles. I also mentioned I will be adding a tuner in the future and will there be any downsides. Again, Hercules. Was I instructed wrong?


If you really dont want whistle, you can always go non-vgt... say a s362fmw or something.

I know a couple guys on here run that with stock injectors and like it.
Budget restraints and I already have a turbo. Rebuilding the turbo myself with a billet wheel may run about 400, a new one probably at least twice that. I will look into that as well though.
 

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The Silent Service
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I'll be doing some reading for sure, thanks for the links. I only plan to swap pans and filter for 08 up and run amsoil. I don't want to get into internals, and I want to keep engine at a level that the trans can live at. Towing is not really in my planned future, but maybe occasional one car trailer 7-8k or a small boat. I think most tunes have some sort of shift strategy and pressure control modification, right?
So, for the most part 550HP is the upper limit - far from where you are talking with your build. When the time comes around I'd recommend a triple-disk torque converter, just to firm up the shifts. As far as what the tunes will take care of for you, they do adjust shift points and pressures. If you allow the same file to be run for a period, the transmission relearn processing actually helps it run. Most of your street files will be fine for that 7-8k trailer, I still recommend having a dedicated towing file written.

I was under the impression that 04.5 turbos were a mixture of parts and had the 13 blade low whistle exducer and larger 03 style inducer but I'm not sure.
The '04.5 turbos are a little different profile, about 1.5mm shorter in the depth of the vanes of the turbine and a smaller compressor (shared by the '05+ turbos). The '05+ turbines had a slightly smaller exit (64.5mm vise the 66.0mm of the '04), to improve throttle response.

The '03 and Powermax have bigger 10-blade turbines and whistle pretty bad.


I want it to run clean. Some haze at wot is fine, but as long as it's not rolling coal the whole way. Seems inefficient. What I meant by performance increase was that the people that had say 175s with stock nozzles felt the engine had better throttle response and better bottom end tq, along with increased top end. I'm not opposed to more HP, just want to focus on bottom end and throttle response, and higher HP than stock will be a side effect.
If you are looking for the lower end grunt, I'd stay with what has become common as a Stage 1.5 turbo. Basically, a 63.5-64mmx88mm compressor matched with the 13 blade stock turbine. Good low end spool with decent airflow for stock class injectors.

]I'm sort of in a bind though since I used the mail in option to tune the ficm. The PHP rep I spoke with said hercules will be perfect for best tq, MPG and throttle response, if I don't tow over 10k, even with larger injectors and up to 30% nozzles. I also mentioned I will be adding a tuner in the future and will there be any downsides. Again, Hercules. Was I instructed wrong?
I think you got sold on the wrong FICM file here. When you are running FICM tuning alone with a stock ECM, it produces quite a bit of power, but does nothing to have the transmission ready to receive it. When you match the Hercules program with any of the SCT files not written specifically for it, you start starving injectors, lacking the proper air flow and the results of higher temps are only the beginning.

Budget restraints and I already have a turbo. Rebuilding the turbo myself with a billet wheel may run about 400, a new one probably at least twice that. I will look into that as well though.
Look at KC Turbos Stage 1.5 DIY kit (they send the Compressor housing and wheel and rebuild kit - you use the remaining parts), runs a little higher than your range, but might be just what you are looking for. I used a modified Powermax for my DIY Stage 2.

Let me know if you have questions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
At the time I originally posted this earlier this week, I was running a stock ficm, mine was on the way back from PHP. I got the ficm in this morning.

Sure runs good, starts fast, good throttle response, but it does smoke like a freight train and get hot egt fast when wot. Ughhh. Mileage seemed to increase a little, but with egts going to 1500 after 5 sec of wot, definitely not cool.

My turbo boost gauge only indicates max of 22-24psi. I need to check it with another gauge but I know it's tired.

Also noticed a little slip in 2-3 shift under mild acceleration getting on fwy. May need time to relearn torque parameters.

I'll drive it over the weekend and get a better feel for it, but I know I'll be switching out to something less. Atlas 40 or 80?
 
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