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Discussion Starter #1
Here's the scoop. I have a pretty much stock Job 1 6.4 (only thing that is not stock are the tires).

I've been complaining to my dealer at the last several scheduled maintenance windows that the truck does not seem to have the "pop" that it did when it was new.

I experience what I would describe as a hesitation when going from a dead stop to moving. I seem to remember when the truck was new, it would just go when you hit the accelerator.

Now, when I hit the accelerator, it literally takes a second or so to get going. This doesn't seem like much, but it feels different, and can be troublesome when pulling into traffic.

I really haven't been able to clearly articulate whether the delay is in the motor gaining RPMs, or in the transmission applying the power to the wheels.

Early on, I also commented to the dealer that the turbo did not seem to be generating the same PSI that it did when the truck was new. I don't see it go over 35 any more, and when it was new, if I realy haered it while towing, I would see it go right up to 40. Plus, the literature states that it should generate 40.

The dealer said they tested the turbo, and it generated 35 PSI in 3rd gear which meant it was fine????

Anyhow, I was just washing the truck today, and for grins and giggles I removed the upper boot from the inter cooler to find a thick coating of sludge..... smells like oil mostly, but there appears to be a little water in there as well, as it appears to be a brown sludge, not black.

I haven't taken the lower boot off to see if anything drains out. I've heard others talk about inter coolers filled with oil.

I've never gotten a clear understanding as to whether this is normal / acceptable, or whether it is an indication of a problem. Where would the oil be coming from?

It seems to me that if there is oil in the inter cooler, it is decreasing the efficiency, and if I'm blowing sludge through the turbos, it would also decrease their efficiency, which might maybe explain why I'm not seeing the get up and go that I would like to?

I'm getting ready for a 35K service in the next few weeks. I'm wondering if I should bring this up with the service manager again.

Thanks for any insight.
 

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This sounds similar to my concern. Just bought an 02 7.3L, E350 with 22,000 miles and the overflow tank has lots of sludge, rusty color, covering the whole inside walls of the plastic tank. It has the Yellow coolant. The sludge seems oily when rubbed between fingers. Any thoughts on this???
 

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The gunk in your intercooler is a mixture of oil (from the turbos) and water (from condensation). Both are normal, but usually you don't see much unless you really work the heck out of the turbos, or have tons of miles. You might want to mention it to the service manager when you go in, just so they can make sure you haven't blown a seal on one of the turbos.
 

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bendkodiak.

Not similar at all. The rusty color sludge in your overflow tank is where the coolant is reacting with the aluminum and steel in the motor. You need to do a coolant flush to try to get all of the old stuff out of the system, (motor, radiator, heater core, everything). When you refill, don't use the extended life coolant, use the regular green stuff. I would have been leery of buying a truck that has been driven less than 4K a year.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
thanks. So, how much is normal? If I remove the lower boot this afternoon, and sludge spills out, does that indicate a blown seal?

If this doesn't concern my dealer and it still bothers me, is there a good method for flushing this out?

I assume the oil would be coming from the turbo bearings? It would seem to me like a poor seal design if any amount of noticeable oil is escaping into the system. I always thought that the air side of the turbo system was clean...... This is air that has already passed through the air filter, and potentially can head straight into the engine.... adding unknown quantities of additional oil, and water to the combustion chamber seems like a bad idea to me :)

Thanks for the feedback!
 

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A big source of oil in your intercooler is the crank case vent. It goes from the oil fill cap/cylinder to your air intake, just before the turbo. Thick, short hose. Some guys disconnect that hose from the intake, plug the intake hole, and route the hose elsewhere. It'd be nice to be able to route it into a container to empty every so often instead of letting it pour all over the ground though. Check out this thread for info.

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-4l-performance-parts-discussion/61686-ccv-mod.html


EDIT:

Here's another thread. Looks like the best way to keep the turbos and intercooler clean would be to add a filter somehow, inline between the oil fill canister and the air intake. This would keep the crank case in negative pressure generated by the turbos (crank case port is vented between turbo and air filter, a negative pressure zone), but allow you to block the oil mist that makes its way back into the engine.

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/general-6-4l-discussion/86778-ccv-mod-cvv.html
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the input folks.... I did a little more investigating this morning, and I think I was barking up the wrong tree....

I removed the boot at the bottom of the intercooler with a dish pan underneath, expectig a bunch or oil/ water gunk to spill out.....

Virtually nothing, a very little amount of moisture, but no buildup on the inside of the pipes or sludge. SO, I then fully disconnected the pipe between the top of the intercooler, and what appears to be the throttle body?? I can see the butterfly valve inside. Anyhow, it was very clean as well. The valve was shiny, and although there was a bit of moisture in the pipe, the only sludge seemed to be minimal and built up around the hard edges leaving the intercooler and into the rubber boot.

So, I'm now thinking that I don't have much oil leaking into the air system. This is a good thing I guess :)

However, it doesn't explain my sluggishness when I hit the accelerator in a hurry.

If i'm leaving a light with traffic theres no problem, gradual acceleration is smooth and strong for the most part.

My problem is when i'm pulling out from a stop into traffic and I need to GO...... It really take a second or so before anything happens with regard to power or movement when I mash the accelerator.

it's tough to really document this, but when i hit the pedal, the motor does begin to rev, but I don't think I really start moving until I get to 2K plus RPMs..... Maybe this is normal, someone said in another post that the stock torque converter didn't start to lock up until 2K RPM? Maybe this makes sense, but i'm still a little confused.

Sorry, i'm still pretty new to all of this. I've had other 3/4 ton and larger trucks, but they were all gassers.... They never exhibited this lag that i'm perceiving.

I honestly can't tell if the lag is because of the Diesel needing a little time to spool up and apply power, or whether something isn't working correctly.

I don't remember this issue when the vehicle was new, but it has been this way for over a year. I'm also tending not to buy into the diesel lag issue, because ford marketed the 6.4 with dual turbos, so that there was minimal to zero lag time......

I suppose I could stop by the dealer and ask to drive a new one off the lot to see if it handles the same, but if anyone here can comment as to what I should be expecting that woudl be great. I know a lot of folks who have gotten rid of the DPF and added some computer programming don't experience this, so I guess i'm interested in what I should be expecting with stock.

Thanks again!
 

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One thing to keep in mind is that a diesel puts out a sizeable puff of smoke on initial launch. This is because the turbos are not up to speed and you have very little boost initially. (Rich fuel to air mixture.) While our turbo setup is very capable of having low lag, in order to keep the DPF from getting plugged up quickly, the stock tuning has preprogrammed lag to allow the turbos to spool more. Extra air means less smoke, and less soot in the DPF.

If I punch the throttle, you could almost count two full seconds before it takes off. Rolling into makes it respond much more quickly. The people with tuners and no DPF have reported no delay whatsoever. I personally run a stock power-level dpf delete tune. Even with that, I get a good puff of smoke if I punch the throttle from a dead stop. I still have the delay, unfortunately, as that's just stock tuning with only regen being deleted.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
what your are explaining is exactly what i'm experiencing.

To be honest, I think I started experiencing this on my job 1 truck after the first or second software update. I wonder if ford adjusted te lag in either one of those updates. That would probably explain why the truck seemed to have more get up and go a few years ago.

Thanks for the insight.
 

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It sounds normal honestly. As stated above the lag is to prevent DPF clogging.

However when the truck has been running hard pull the oil cap or dip stick and see how much oil mist is coming out. It does not sound like you have a lot.

The condensation build up could cause the truck to stumble at hard acceleration when the water vapor gets sucked into the intake and cools the combustion cycles enough to cause unburned fuel. There is a new CAC upgrade for this problem if it has not been done on your truck. Look for white or grey smoke on hard acceleration.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
it is sounding more and more normal to me as well.... Do you know what the TSB was for the CAC upgrade?

I would then know whether or not I have it.

I've seen posts about the optional TSB for those who are getting water in their system after heavy rains and such.... Is this what you are referring to?

I have also experienced the stutter when accelerating in wet conditions, but haven't asked the dealer to install the air intake upgrade.
 

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bendkodiak.

Not similar at all. The rusty color sludge in your overflow tank is where the coolant is reacting with the aluminum and steel in the motor. You need to do a coolant flush to try to get all of the old stuff out of the system, (motor, radiator, heater core, everything). When you refill, don't use the extended life coolant, use the regular green stuff. I would have been leery of buying a truck that has been driven less than 4K a year.
Thanks greasltn. Helps to know where the sludge comes from. However, there is an oily feel. Does that mean the engine got too hot once and oil leaked into the water passages?

Is there a chemical or process to clean all the sludge out of the coolant system??? I looked into the 1/4" overflow tube and sure enough there is sludge in it.

This is the E350 Cutaway with a 22ft RV built on it, so that explains the low miles over 7 years.
 

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Coolant has a slick oily feel, nothing to be concerned unless you see black oil droplets floating in it. A few different companies make cooling system flushes, they are all about the same. Just make sure you run everything out until it's clear, you will still not be able to get it all out but you should be able to get most of it. Don't forget to drain the block to get the last of the junk out and don't freak out if something looking like sand comes out. When you fill it mix your coolant 50/50 with distilled water and you should be fine. Good luck
 

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Yep, your recommendations agree with the local diesel shop who looked at the overflow bottle. Because the slodge was on the lower sides of the bottle and not floating on the surface, the sludge came from rust and not any oils (motor, trans or fuel). I'll start flushing.\\

Great forum. Thanks
 

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it is sounding more and more normal to me as well.... Do you know what the TSB was for the CAC upgrade?

I would then know whether or not I have it.

I've seen posts about the optional TSB for those who are getting water in their system after heavy rains and such.... Is this what you are referring to?

I have also experienced the stutter when accelerating in wet conditions, but haven't asked the dealer to install the air intake upgrade.
The intercooler upgrade for white smoke is TSB 08-25-1.
 
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