guess no one wants to assist with my issue?
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High ECT* and EOT* after oil cooler replacement
Hi, I'm new to powerstroke and also a noob to diesels... i have been researching here for the last 6 months iv owned my 04 f350... I had Deltas at 23* so i went ahead and got my egr delete (sinister) and oil cooler replaced... since then my scanguage2 at 65mph on flat over a 20mile drive with ambient temps of 105* my coolant was sitting at 215* and oil at 223*... I believe this to be to high and in this time i never heard my fan kick on... I then added to my scanguage the FSS (Fan Speed Sensor) and all im getting at 65mph with ECT at 211* and EOT at 220* was FSS at 420rpm... my question is this normal?
Nothing has been done to this truck other than oil cooler and EGR Delete...
Thanks Guys for all the help
Nothing has been done to this truck other than oil cooler and EGR Delete...
Thanks Guys for all the help
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Sorry for the delay this is not a maned forum thee may not have been anyone here at the time of your post. I will try to help.
While your temps are not excessive for that much ambient temps, your fan clutch shows to not be working correctly. From my own observations you should be turning up at least half engine rpm at those temps.
You may need a new fan clutch.
While your temps are not excessive for that much ambient temps, your fan clutch shows to not be working correctly. From my own observations you should be turning up at least half engine rpm at those temps.
You may need a new fan clutch.
so you are implying that with 65mph wind blowing through the radiator that the fan is somehow connected to water and oil temps? not likely. OP you must remember that at the end of the day, you are cooling the radiator/coolant with 110 degree air and you are only cooling the oil with 211 degree coolant. The fan is usually only a factor at a stop or very low speeds.
not saying that the fan clutch is not weak. I am simply stating that at 65mph that the fan is not the issue.the fan clutch is only useful if the air speed created from the fan/engine rpm is greater then the air speed from mph. and the volume of air the radiator see's from high mph is always going to be greater than the volume the fan creates. So MPH must be very low and inefficient in order for the fan to have to work.the air from vehicle speed is consistantly hitting the entire mass of the radiator at consistant speed. the fan covers only partial radiator mass and is determined by rpm/heat ect.
not saying that the fan clutch is not weak. I am simply stating that at 65mph that the fan is not the issue.the fan clutch is only useful if the air speed created from the fan/engine rpm is greater then the air speed from mph. and the volume of air the radiator see's from high mph is always going to be greater than the volume the fan creates. So MPH must be very low and inefficient in order for the fan to have to work.the air from vehicle speed is consistantly hitting the entire mass of the radiator at consistant speed. the fan covers only partial radiator mass and is determined by rpm/heat ect.
when you changed the oil cooler did you flush the cooling system? your new cooler could be plugged up with the same sediment that killed your first one. I did the full flush procedure recently and couldnt believe how much crap was in the system. if it is plugged up, you might be able to save it with the reverse flush procedure. I found this very useful
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0-maintanence-info/203548-flushing-cleaning-6-0-a.html
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-0-maintanence-info/203548-flushing-cleaning-6-0-a.html
Thanks for the replies... I can tell u I'm going to do a reverse flush on system soon... But about fan speed last night I drove temps got etc 206 eot 211 fan speeds still low at 65 but that's now understandable... Tho stoped in front of house for 10 min fan speed was at 182 I could stop fan by hand... Etc and eot both claimed to etc 209 eot 213 befor fan gradually went to 800 and cooled... I am running stock tune with egr plugged in
And when the truck is stopped or slow moveing the engine quits generateing heat?
This is why the computer controlled fan clutch was developed, to provide a more reliable and consistant control over engine temps under all operateing conditions.
Ford chose to do this by useing an infinitly variable speed high volume fan force feeding air thru the heat exchangers as needed only when needed to reduce drag on the engine.
I am feeling too poorley today to get into a debate on this so I will let one of the other Ford techs with access to fords current information. Mebe M-chan 68 or dave or one of the others will chime in.
Basicaly the pcm compares more factors than just coolant to oil temps to turn on the fan.
This is why the computer controlled fan clutch was developed, to provide a more reliable and consistant control over engine temps under all operateing conditions.
Ford chose to do this by useing an infinitly variable speed high volume fan force feeding air thru the heat exchangers as needed only when needed to reduce drag on the engine.
I am feeling too poorley today to get into a debate on this so I will let one of the other Ford techs with access to fords current information. Mebe M-chan 68 or dave or one of the others will chime in.
Basicaly the pcm compares more factors than just coolant to oil temps to turn on the fan.
was the fan working properly before you delted the egr? Install the egr valve, and hook up the egr connector, and i bet the fan will work properly again.
Hi, I'm new to powerstroke and also a noob to diesels... i have been researching here for the last 6 months iv owned my 04 f350... I had Deltas at 23* so i went ahead and got my egr delete (sinister) and oil cooler replaced... since then my scanguage2 at 65mph on flat over a 20mile drive with ambient temps of 105* my coolant was sitting at 215* and oil at 223*... I believe this to be to high and in this time i never heard my fan kick on... I then added to my scanguage the FSS (Fan Speed Sensor) and all im getting at 65mph with ECT at 211* and EOT at 220* was FSS at 420rpm... my question is this normal?
Nothing has been done to this truck other than oil cooler and EGR Delete...
Thanks Guys for all the help
I don't recall ever hearing fan before yet delete... But yet valve is plugged up and just sitting there... But yes I know there is more variables that control the fan but these temps seem just wrong to me...
Dannyboy engine continues to heat up till fan will finally get to 800rpm and cool engine... I really think I have a bad fan
I think so also but since ford has not published a chart listing fan speeds in relation to temps, or none that I have ever found. I would really like to see one. It is really hard to say for shure. I guess that is proprietary information.
By the way the my post 7 was meant for urban assault vehicle not to you. Sorry I forgot to click quote button.
By the way the my post 7 was meant for urban assault vehicle not to you. Sorry I forgot to click quote button.
Luth
Oh ok... Yea is there anyway I could test fanclutch without being out anymore money... Cause if I have to replace I need all the $ I can getI think so also but since ford has not published a chart listing fan speeds in relation to temps, or none that I have ever found. I would really like to see one. It is really hard to say for shure. I guess that is proprietary information.
By the way the my post 7 was meant for urban assault vehicle not to you. Sorry I forgot to click quote button.
If it were me, I would replace the thermostat to be sure that it's working properly. I don't think that your ECT / EOT spread is that bad especially at the higher temps. I almost never hear my fan kick on (even when pulling my 5er) and unloaded my temps sometimes hit 200 or so, but will fall back down to 190 where it likes to hover. Thermostats are not expensive and easy to replace, and if you haven't done so it would be a good place to start (than buying a fan). Also, plug in the EGR valve, I have read that an unplugged EGR valve may adversely affect the fan operation.
you misunderstood my statement. basically, the fan is needed the most at a stop or low vehicle speeds. but at 65mph the fan will not play a big role in temps. I dont care about the rest, I dont care if you are a ford tech, most ford techs are the reason these trucks get f*cked up. I build race cars for a living and I know how motors work. I could take the clutch fan off of my van in 110 degree AZ heat and I promise my temps will not be high(overheat) as long as I stay moving on the freeway. as soon as I get off, it will boil like a motha F*cker. as far as other factors ford added, I dont care. How ford decides to kick the fan on is irrelivant to me. I am speaking about the effects of the fan at 65mph and only the effects of the fan at 65mph.And when the truck is stopped or slow moveing the engine quits generateing heat?
This is why the computer controlled fan clutch was developed, to provide a more reliable and consistant control over engine temps under all operateing conditions.
Ford chose to do this by useing an infinitly variable speed high volume fan force feeding air thru the heat exchangers as needed only when needed to reduce drag on the engine.
I am feeling too poorley today to get into a debate on this so I will let one of the other Ford techs with access to fords current information. Mebe M-chan 68 or dave or one of the others will chime in.
Basicaly the pcm compares more factors than just coolant to oil temps to turn on the fan.
Well useing your own Wind tunnel theory, would you not exspect a free wheeling pin wheel to be turning a little faster than 425 rpm at the air velocity geneated at 65 MPH.
I am not a Ford mechanic just and old diesel mechanic of 47 years experience who also used to build race cars and engines. even built a couple for a guy named Garlits.
The guys temps were not in question they were reasonable underr the circumstances.
Just his fan speed as designed by Ford seemed a little low could cause him some problems pulling a grade while towing.
Thats all I got to say. OP good luck.
I am not a Ford mechanic just and old diesel mechanic of 47 years experience who also used to build race cars and engines. even built a couple for a guy named Garlits.
The guys temps were not in question they were reasonable underr the circumstances.
Just his fan speed as designed by Ford seemed a little low could cause him some problems pulling a grade while towing.
Thats all I got to say. OP good luck.
Anyone else thinking that it might be that the EGR is deleted and he's running a stock tune? Or has my day been that long that I'm not thinking clearly? :hehe:
I was thinking the same, but one of his post's states that the EGR is plugged in,,,so..Anyone else thinking that it might be that the EGR is deleted and he's running a stock tune? Or has my day been that long that I'm not thinking clearly? :hehe:
And to the master race motor builder, my fan clutch kicks in at 65mph when I tow heavy/uphill especially in the heat and you can hear it draw more air through than the 65mph is already causing.
I agree with you. I have the entire time. I have been trying to tell you that I am not arguing with you. I am simply telling the OP that his fan may be bad but that is not the reason for his temps.The guys temps were not in question they were reasonable underr the circumstances.
Just his fan speed as designed by Ford seemed a little low could cause him some problems pulling a grade while towing.
Thats all I got to say. OP good luck.
let me clarify again, I am speaking about the temp concerns from the OP. nothing else. and my response to the OP is that while driving 20 miles or so at 65 with no load behind it that the fan has no affect. that is all. you guys keep going off topic about how a fan affects other aspecs and I AGREE!!!! YOU NEED YOUR CLUTCH FAN. so now that that has been stated. stop agruing for no reason.My response is about the affects of the fan at 65mph. nothing else. If his fan clutch is bad...Great! change it out with a new one and be done with it. but it will not help his unloaded 65mph temps. That is all I am saying. I have not argued whether or not the fan clutch is bad. That isnt my concern.
I think we all agree but are saying it differently
OP:
* your fan clutch may be bad. If it is, change it but your 65mph temps probably wont see improvement
* with 110 degree ambient temps coolint the radiator and 211 degree coolant cooling your oil, you will see higher temps.
damn man. wasnt trying to start F*cking war here but I made one post in this thread responding to the OP about his temps and how his fan should not reflect temps at that speed, and everybody goes off. What is the point of talking about all the other affects of the fan while pulling a load and what ford does to engage said fan and all this other stuff when we all know at 65mph it is not the issue. His fan clutch may be bad.and pulling a grade will increase temps without it, but not a flat stretch of highway. I never really cared to comment on it being bad or good because dannyboy already answered that. But then he thinks I am arguing against him. and make a point to say that his response is directed towards me? and how did I respond? I was simply putting it in a "bringing it back to the basics" standpoint.but no need to say that you have no time for a debate and you will let other ford techs chime in. not needed sir. I wasnt bragging about building race cars.I was simply responding to what I took as " I dont got time for you so I will just let the other ford techs have their way with you". Thats how I took it. and in response, I stated that I build race cars. Then you want to name drop on cars you built. I am not going to respond to that as I am done with this D!CK measuring contest. This is stupid. We shouldnt be fighting about a damn clutch fan. At 65 it is not going to effect temps. low speed, stops, (maybe towing, never really tested that one) it will have a great effect and is needed alot. so if it is bad, change it. Now can we get back to the temp issue now that the fan issue is taken care of. Temps may be normal but I dont see temps that high at 65mph and it is anywhere from 110-115 where I am at and I have a truck tune +120 on my VAN with a smaller intercooler and tighter engine bay. But above 65mph or under heavy load for a good distance I have seen temps that high. I would change the fan clutch if it is bad and continue to monitor the temps and see if they get worse or maintain.Hope this post clears everything up.
Ok I appreciate it I'm replacing fan clutch now... The front part of clutch was making a metal noise anyways and is loose... So it saying don't worry about temps at all?
no, I am saying to monitor temps and see if they get higher. But chances are that they are about where they should be at the given ambient temp. Basically, dont stress over it but dont ignor or neglect it. Thats what I would do.
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