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Considering this history, it would be interesting for the thread to get pictures of the gaskets and heads to see the pattern, or not. And how much the head is deviated from flat.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
If you mean belched by bled off the pressure then yes after it belched the pressure was at 17psi. Under normal driving unloaded conditions I only see about 6psi. The degas bottle is maintaining under normal driving conditions. By maintaining I mean it stays within the max and min level and checked regularly.

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If you mean belched by bled off the pressure then yes after it belched the pressure was at 17psi. Under normal driving unloaded conditions I only see about 6psi. The degas bottle is maintaining under normal driving conditions. By maintaining I mean it stays within the max and min level and checked regularly.

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Take a picture of the antifreeze level in the degas bottle when the engine is cold and post it.

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The max level is TOO high for our trucks. The MIN line should be the max you fill the bottle to. Even 1/2" below the minimum line

What I meant about bleeding the pressure off is: get it up to operating temp, then open the cap by hand, carefully, to get the psi to 0, then drive it and monitor what it goes up to
 

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Discussion Starter #26
The max level is TOO high for our trucks. The MIN line should be the max you fill the bottle to. Even 1/2" below the minimum line

What I meant about bleeding the pressure off is: get it up to operating temp, then open the cap by hand, carefully, to get the psi to 0, then drive it and monitor what it goes up to
Yes sir, I agree that the factory min should be max. There is some debate about that. I always run mine about 1/4" below the stamped min and have found that when pressured up the degas bottle never goes empty and that's what is important. As for the pressure after warm up test, I did that about 6 weeks or so ago and built up about 1.5 psi after warm bleed off.


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I know this is going to sound like a broken record, but did you vent the pressure on the day you hit 17psi while towing the 5er?
 

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Discussion Starter #28
No sir. Parked it jumped into another vehicle and was gone for about 5 hours. I looked at the gauge when I got back but, I don't remember where it was.
@TooManyToys thanks for the links. It sounds like that may be my issue. Now I'll look into doing this return to the T-Stat.

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I've got my heads tapped, but for Swagelok fittings for a hard tube. I don't want to screw around with the T/S area, I'm going to try to tee the two hard lines, then use a hose nipple and bring a line up to one of the existing hoses to the degas bottle. Tee'd to one of those.

Another member did the head to T-stat lines with his new Kill Devil heads. He tows heavy and tuned and so far it's been fine for him.

The end ports for the heads, in front it's the return to the front cover, but in the back, it's deadheaded. On the engine stand, it sure looks like its trapped air space, and I don't think it can be vacuumed away where it is.

We have two "venting ports" in this application, one from the radiator and the other from the intake manifold. Both are there to remove any trapped air and bring it to the reservoir, or "degas" bottle. Other motors have them too, our Lincoln LS just overheats like crazy if you are not diligent on removing all the air.

Auto engineers have had a good record for calculating the amount of vapor pressure and coolant expansion rates, so it's always confounded me why they screwed up so badly on this design where the "max" indicator is so far off. Speculating only, but since akblackfoot got the results he did, something I thought was nuts, I now wonder if there was a miscalculation of air being trapped in the back of the heads. Air would have a much greater thermal expansion rate compared to coolant, and I wonder if that is why we have such a puking issue, and especially in cases of tuned or harder working situations. Normal driving, pressures and coolant expansion are fine. But you work the motor harder, more heat in the head area, and the "bubble", coolant expansion, and higher vapor pressure all contribute.

Anyway, its just speculation from down the rabbit hole.
 

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There are specific reasons we ask you to do the tests, and the order of them. I'm not convinced you have a head gasket problem. But, it's your money if you want to have your guy tear it apart.
 

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I have a 06 F350 6.0 that I recently installed a pressure gauge to the degas bottle. I would get antifreeze venting out the degas bottle when pulling my 5th wheel sometimes. I would have to be climbing a pass or pushing it hard up some long steep hills. Anytime I had anything less as far as roads or driving without towing it I had no venting.
I bought my truck with 145,000 mi and a friend told me to have all the bulletproofing done so I would never have trouble towing. It had a egr delete so I had heads studded along with usual bulletproofing using Ford parts. The work was done by a tech that worked at the Ford dealership but had a full shop at home where he did side jobs. I thought I would never have a problem with heads again. I use a SCT tuner running the tow and street tune. I never abuse the truck but I am pretty sure the head gaskets are leaking only under the conditions I mentioned above.
I have 167,000 mi now and wonder if they might have been leaking since the job was first done. I just recently started monitoring things with the torque app. Ect might get to 212 max but I have seen Eot get to 242. My oil cooler needs changed again cause it's running a 16 delta flat road unloaded. With the delete I don't think it's quite as important.
Given my symptoms I think the gentleman that started this thread has leaking head gaskets also. There seems to be lots of others with leaking after studs too.
It would be interesting for someone to start a poll concerning head gasket jobs and ex,. how many times done, gaskets used, tuned or not etc.
 

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Oil temperature is still a concern. While the “Delta” is known to watch for EGR cooler overheating and cracking, the ability of the oil to properly lubricate is directly related to its viscosity. I’ve been working on a video about camshaft failure and one engineering study has a graph showing viscosity with increasing temperature and effect on camshaft lobe wear. It may be one of the components of 6.0s occasional seeing cam and lifter failure. It kind of points to using the best temperature resistant oils.

It’s my opinion that the head gasket failure has more to do with the heads stress creep, which is why we often see the gasket failure right in the center. Studs may be chasing the wrong rabbit. The theory is way down the rabbit hole.
 

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Even with my egr delete I agree my oil cooler needs changed out now. I am running synthetic oil so at least it's better for higher temps.

I have made the decision to have the heads pulled again and replace the gaskets. It's possible a head might be bad or the block surface needs attention to get them to seal right. The place I found to do the job works only on powerstrokes. I can only hope the job is correct this time. It's going in Monday so when it's done I will post on this thread the results on what was found. Of course a new oil cooler also.

My truck ran about 8 psi with the SCT street tune normal driving. I could maybe get it close to 10 doing some WOT runs. The only time it would build pressure to over 16 was pulling the 5th wheel up steep grades. Once it got over 16 it pretty much stayed there even on level roads. I almost thought of just stopping and releasing some pressure when needed. Then continue driving the truck in it's present condition. I think my decision to fix it right will be the better choice.
 

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...... I almost thought of just stopping and releasing some pressure when needed. Then continue driving the truck in its present condition. ......
I would implore you to still do that. With the experience others here have with failed gaskets and looking at pressures, that could be a clue there.

And the comparison to what condition you would find the gaskets and flatness of the heads would be a great benefit to the community.

(It follows what I would do in my 30+ years of R&D in the automotive field, so I'm biased in my request).
 

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Discussion Starter #35
There are specific reasons we ask you to do the tests, and the order of them. I'm not convinced you have a head gasket problem. But, it's your money if you want to have your guy tear it apart.
Hey man, I'm appreciative of the help and suggestions. I'm not sure what else you want to see. I'm glad to do all the diag possible on my truck. I think I've done everything that's been suggested except for bleed pressure and watch for a further build while towing. Towing hard is the only time I see this type of pressure as others have stated. I'll have the 5er out again in about a week and I'll do the bleed rebuild process then. I don't want to spend the money to restud my truck but time wise I'm in a spot to get it down now, I've got another vehicle to use until mid Sept. after that I use it everyday. I think TooManyToys posted a good link with a very plausible theory and I may pursue that ave.

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Replicate the problem, then bleed off psi. Then replicate what you did to begin with. If your psi goes back up to 16, then your gaskets are bad. If the psi doesn't go back up, they're ok.

Just because it goes to 16 initially doesn't mean they are bad. Just that there is enough thermal expansion to reach that pressure. That could just mean you are over filled with coolant and the air is compressed in the degas bottle. Once you relieve the pressure, then you can tell if the gaskets are leaking pressure into the coolant system. Without relieving the psi, your not able to verify that. You need to get the coolant up to temp so the thermal expansion is out of the equation. Only then can you tell if your gaskets are bad
 

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Update

Ok I took my truck in Monday to the shop as I said in previous post. They just called after checking out the high pressures I told them I was getting towing my fifth wheel . They confirmed my findings so the heads are coming off. He thinks the gasket, instead of blowing completely , just lost some material in places to cause the problem. I told him to update me after he gets it apart and the heads checked out. I will update here again when I hear back from him.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Replicate the problem, then bleed off psi. Then replicate what you did to begin with. If your psi goes back up to 16, then your gaskets are bad. If the psi doesn't go back up, they're ok.

Just because it goes to 16 initially doesn't mean they are bad. Just that there is enough thermal expansion to reach that pressure. That could just mean you are over filled with coolant and the air is compressed in the degas bottle. Once you relieve the pressure, then you can tell if the gaskets are leaking pressure into the coolant system. Without relieving the psi, your not able to verify that. You need to get the coolant up to temp so the thermal expansion is out of the equation. Only then can you tell if your gaskets are bad
Ok, here are the results you were asking for. After the first 25 min. it was at 12 psi. I bled it down to 4 psi because that is when it started to loose coolant. I drove for the next 20 min and the end result was 17 psi. The total trip time was approx. 45 min.

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I think your in the same boat as me, bad head gaskets. My troubles would only happen towing fifth wheel and working the engine hard. Normal driving it was fine. Of course I had them done before with APR studs but that doesn't mean they can't go bad again.

Were your last results towing? What was your ect running at 17 psi. If you had really high coolant temps when it went to 17 psi then that would explain extra pressure as far as I know.

I expect the shop where there working on my truck should be calling me soon with a update on what they found as far as gaskets/heads. I will post the results.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Well......I haven't watched the EOT/ECT for two reasons. I have the BPD oil to air cooler with the factory cooler deleted and understood it was not necessary to heavily monitor those temps beyond the factory gauges and I don't have the availibity to monitor those. Bit, Yes I've been told gaskets or a small head crack. I've not been given a hard quote but about $6500 for a gasket job and $8500 for full heads.

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