[CharlieC]

Alright, the time has come to pull the trigger and upgrade my veg system.

My current setup is a goldenfuel system on a '96 F-250. Check here for details:
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/bi...ents/130033-svo-conversion-1-year-update.html

Planned upgrades are as follows:

Fuel bowl delete
Mechanical lift pump delete
Pollack valve delte

Install a check valve based system. The schematic is as follows:

d2 > filter > raptor > check valve > ball valve >stock banjo bolt and stock lines to back of heads.

veg tank > hot fox > HOH > Racor 1000 > FASS > check valve > FPHE > ball valve > front ports.

Also, the electric heater on one of my racors shorted out. So, as part of this I'm installing the aux coolant pump (See Clay Henry's aux pump writeup) and wrapping that Racor with hot coolant line. It takes about 15ft of coolant line to wrap the filter, so I thought that merited the aux pump.

This last weekend, I tore all the old stuff out. Getting the stock pump out was actually pretty straightforward (that was my biggest fear). I bought a 1 1/4 gear wrench and that made quick work of the banjo bolt.

Currently, I'm trying to figure out where to mount everything and piecing together fittings.

I'm going to try and mount the FPHE in the engine valley using the mounting holes for the fuel bowl. not sure if I can squeeze it in there, but it would be sweet to have it so close to the front ports.
Where do you guys mount your FPHE?

Also, I may just use the stock return lines to feed veg. The fittings are in good shape, so we'll see if I can make it fit.

BIG THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS HELPED ME PLAN, including ridiculously_necessary, vegginpsd, BruceM, Hheynow, Clay_henry, and others.

Pictures and parts lists are forthcoming. Stay tuned!

 

[CharlieC]

Ok, this is my first stab at sharing photos, we'll see how it goes.

The bosch coolant pump is setup for 3/4" heater hose. I'm installing mine in the bed of my truck (at the farthest point from the water pump) where my lines are just 1/2". I had to install some reducers.



Also, I bought mine from partsgeek.com and it did not come with the cord. The connections are a bit funky. You can find the link to the pump in the diy wvo parts thread.



I soldered ring terminals to those posts and it worked just fine.


EDIT: Whew, finally figured out the photos. What an arduous interface!

 

[Aaron Berk]

A thought if you don't mind

I've got a Goldenfuelsystem on my 98 obs as well.

Not a big fan of it, purge time is ridiculous.

I've got the Racor1000 in my truck bed and it's fed with the HOH coming from the hot fox. My racor internal heater shorted out as well. And I replaced it with an external wrap heater and insulation from GFS ----- NOT IMPRESSED

Heating that racor is necessary in my opinion. So good call on a hose wrap and coolant pump.



Could I ask though, why put the filter on the suction side of the pump? That's the way my system is, and I believe it's so GFS could use the vacuum gauge to monitor the filter element. But I think the filter should be on the pressure side of things.
Relocating my filter is one of my future projects, and fuel bowl delete among others......



opcorn2:

 

[ridiculously_necessary]

my question/answer to that is, what pressure can that racor handle? if its 10psi there is your answer. i am curious about this though, anyone know for sure?

 

[Aaron Berk]

Racor 1000fh 15psi and max 180gph

From a Racor website spec sheet.

Maximum allowable psi is 15

 

[ridiculously_necessary]

Mike just sent me a link thats related to fass pumps. it mentioned that filters (with exception to pre-screens) should be placed on the pressure side of the pump. not required but reccomended. maybe racor has an element rated for 70psi?

 

[Aaron Berk]

Yeah I'd personally think you'd get better performance out of a filter on the positive pressure side of the pump. The guys over at GFS put it on the vac side in an effort to reduce water emulsion from gearator pumps. Their effort is valid. but I just "feel" better with a filter on the positive side.:dunno:

 

[CharlieC]

The water block / water separator feature on filters only works on the vacuum side. On the pressure side the water and oil gets emulsified and won't separate.

That's one of the reasons why fass and pureflow use a two stage filtration process, the water separator on the vacuum side and the finer filter on the pressure side.

Aaron, I'll let you know how the coolant wrap works out. Seems like it will provide lots more heat than that wimpy pad heater and insulator GFS has. Also, while GFS claims that the 160 degree thermostats will work fine with the internal racor heater, the racor folks told me no way, that it will burn up their heaters. Looks like you and I are evidence of that.

 

[vegginpsd]

Yeah I'd personally think you'd get better performance out of a filter on the positive pressure side of the pump. The guys over at GFS put it on the vac side in an effort to reduce water emulsion from gearator pumps. Their effort is valid. but I just "feel" better with a filter on the positive side.:dunno:

I didn't know that GFS did the filter on the vacuum side.
Greasecar does it too, the both got way too much Volkswagon on the brain. It dont work well on PSD.

Anyway- these filters ROCK! I have not seen anything better.

Greasecar Vegetable Fuel Systems

They get to engine temp. Electric cant do that!

 

[Aaron Berk]

Copper in the filter.

I didn't know that GFS did the filter on the vacuum side.
Greasecar does it too, the both got way too much Volkswagon on the brain. It dont work well on PSD.

Anyway- these filters ROCK! I have not seen anything better.

Greasecar Vegetable Fuel Systems

They get to engine temp. Electric cant do that!

Saw this over at Frybrid...... copper is a NO-NO and brass is questionable? :dunno:

Frybrid upgrade - Forums

Can any one else prove or disprove this

I mention it because I know allot of places use the copper heating coils. And if the heating coil is not in the WVO and only around the filter element then it's obviously an OK situation.

 

[CharlieC]

WIRING THE TWO ELECTRIC PUMPS

Ok, so this systems utilizes two electric pumps. One for veg and for d2. They are controlled by two relays and one SPST switch (the most simple on-off switch).

Relay number one (a four terminal relay) is wired as follows:

30: power (big fat 10 ga wire)
86: ground
87: Terminal 30 on Relay number 2 (fat wire)
85: key on power source. Tap into anything that is only on when the key is on. This is just an exciter circuit, it doesn't carry much juice.

Relay number 2 (5 terminal relay)
30: Terminal 87 on relay number 1 (fat 10 ga wire)
86: ground
87a: d2 pump
87: veg pump
85: in cab switch > key on power

The way this works is that when I turn the key on, the relays activate. If the in cab switch is in the off position, the d2 pump kicks on. If the switch is in the on position, the d2 pump switches off and the veg pump switches on.

Relays are confusing for me, and here is a really helpful website with great diagrams about how to utilize relays.

Relays

Also, here is a link to a discussion on the frybrid forum about relays.
http://frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15160

I imagine many of you know these better than I do, but I thought I would lay out the explanation since it took me awhile to figure out how to wire this up.

 

[vegginpsd]

The same thing can be accomplished for SD trucks with a single relay.

Locate the fuel pump on the frame below the drivers seat.
Remove terminals from pump.
Remove ring termonals and lengthen the wires to the engine bay. Leave the plug intact.
Wire relay as follows-

30-Power from wire you lengthened.
86-Ground from wire you lengthened
87A- Back to D2 pump 12V pos terminal (add ground for D2 pump from suitable location)
87- VO pump 12V pos (ground pump to chasis or battery)
85- SPST switch (trigger)

Wired as follows, your system will retain protection from the Maxi Fuse from the power distribution box from under the hood near the master cylinder.

Often times at parts stores, relay pigtails with wire are available to plug into a relay. This enables a quich change in the event a relay fails. Remember, carry an extra relay.

Side note- If you add a fuse of lesser value than the mai fuse before the VO pump and it pops, the system will default to D2 pump and limp you home!

Always assemple load bearing relays with diaelectric grease. It will aid in power transfer, prevent corrosion and make the relay easier to plug into pigtail socket.

 

[vegginpsd]

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Saw this over at Frybrid...... copper is a NO-NO and brass is questionable? :dunno:

Frybrid upgrade - Forums

Can any one else prove or disprove this

I mention it because I know allot of places use the copper heating coils. And if the heating coil is not in the WVO and only around the filter element then it's obviously an OK situation.

I cannot subscribe to the theory about copper heat exchangers. I have three different tanks with copper coils and have yet to see anything to substantiate the claim that VO eats copper tubing, or that is causes poly.....:dunno:

The VW heat exchanger is clearly visible from the fuel full cap. No signs there. On my PSD, I had opened the access cover to inspect for this very reason and I saw nothing but a hard bit of CARBON from the high heat in contact with the coil.

So I can neither prove or disprove the myth, however, I can report the above as first hand observations.:dunno:

As far as copper tubing wraped around a filter......I can tell you that on all of my VO converted vehicles the copper will routinely achieve engine temps. THis after the coolant travels through 15 FPHE (VW) and 20-30 FPHE (PSD).

 

[Clay Henry]

Saw this over at Frybrid...... copper is a NO-NO and brass is questionable? :dunno:

Frybrid upgrade - Forums

Can any one else prove or disprove this

I mention it because I know allot of places use the copper heating coils. And if the heating coil is not in the WVO and only around the filter element then it's obviously an OK situation.

I have brass all over my V3 system....never a problem.

 

[CharlieC]

I too have brass all over my system. 30k miles and no issues with brass.

 

[Clay Henry]

[/COLOR]

I cannot subscribe to the theory about copper heat exchangers. I have three different tanks with copper coils and have yet to see anything to substantiate the claim that VO eats copper tubing, or that is causes poly.....:dunno:

The VW heat exchanger is clearly visible from the fuel full cap. No signs there. On my PSD, I had opened the access cover to inspect for this very reason and I saw nothing but a hard bit of CARBON from the high heat in contact with the coil.

So I can neither prove or disprove the myth, however, I can report the above as first hand observations.:dunno:

As far as copper tubing wraped around a filter......I can tell you that on all of my VO converted vehicles the copper will routinely achieve engine temps. THis after the coolant travels through 15 FPHE (VW) and 20-30 FPHE (PSD).

I have never seen or heard tha it will eat through the copper but it has been long ago proven to accelerate the formation of polymerization. take a sample of vo, stick some copper in it and heat it and let it set. Maybe your not looking in the right place for the poly? Can you access the inside tank walls? try scraping to see if it has anything growing on it.

 

[STANGMAN893]

So I have a golden fuels system too and was looking at the wiring CharlieC has here and was wondering howI might get rid of the switching valve using this setup.I would like to keep the factory pump for d2 and the fass for just the veggie.

 

[CharlieC]

yup, stangman, that is exactly what I am going to do. Install a check valve on the pressure side of each pump. Feed d2 to the rear ports, veg to the front ports, and you have two deadheaded fuel systems. That eliminates the pollack valve. The way you switch between the two systems is just based on which pump is activated.

Not sure yet what purge times will be, but my hope is <60 secs.

I'm glad to see us GFS users are coming out of the woodwork!! Not all of us can be high flyin v3'ers.

 

[Clay Henry]

yup, stangman, that is exactly what I am going to do. Install a check valve on the pressure side of each pump. Feed d2 to the rear ports, veg to the front ports, and you have two deadheaded fuel systems. That eliminates the pollack valve. The way you switch between the two systems is just based on which pump is activated.

Not sure yet what purge times will be, but my hope is <60 secs.

I'm glad to see us GFS users are coming out of the woodwork!! Not all of us can be high flyin v3'ers.

Thats going to make for a really long purge time if i understand your setup...and it will mean VO in your stock filter.

 

[CharlieC]

how's that? Am I missing something? Please see my first post for system design.

Stock fuel bowl is getting pulled. My sense is with the check valves that the only place fuel will mix is in the heads. Shouldn't that make for a really short purge time? Am I correct that it doesn't matter where the check valves are? As long as there is one on each side, it should prevent cross contamination.

If I'm missing something, I'd love your feedback. Easier to change it now than after I have the truck all put back together.